Diversity of Burnley's squad

[The Original]

A common turn of phrase, dont deny it...casualy racist.

I take it that your initial point was that the coach shouldn't have to go out and buy a black player just to prove he isn't racist. I totally agree with that but this isn't an affirmative action situation. Black players are already excelling at this sport and in every position, and are widely available so he doesn't have to buy one to prove a point. It ought to happen naturally based on the law of averages.

You didn’t concede it, you continued to try claim it as “evidence.”

They do have a black player. One who has specifically come out and said what youve just said is highly disrespectful to him and his father. So my only enduring question is why are you blatantly being disrespectful to Dwight McNeil and his family?

As for the population stat I admit I was off on that because I thought you were talking about England as a whole, not Burnley in particular. And it makes a bit of a difference to say that the women's team is not professional, however, the women's team was only thrown in as additional evidence.

How is this not conceding the argument?


All I have said is that Burnley's squad is disproportionately composed of a certain demographic. That is a fact. And I haven't yet characterised it as racist (which it might well be), so that is a strawman of your making. I have only said that the situation is notable and that Burnley as a whole should be looked at to see if there was a pattern of such representation or other behaviour.

Before asking enduring questions of your own, however, I would advise that you answer the very simple one I put to you. Why does Burnley have such an undiverse squad?

 

[sebsheep]

I mean it takes you about 2 minutes to check that they have signed BAME players under Dyche.

 

[anurag]

It is possible that this is just coincidence, but it is rather odd to have such a small representation of people of colour in the club. I feel OP could have used a better choice of words, but the point they make is at least worth investigating. These kind of things in certain organizations are not that uncommon as some people would like to believe. It is a form of covert racism that exists in our society and people dismissing it without taking a deeper look into evidence are just like ostriches hiding their head in sand.

 

[Member 109952]

Not really Dyche's fault, they lose their best players and sign no new players - they've lost Gray, Hendrick, who have they signed as replacements? Soon enough it'll just be the local firemen of Burnley left playing for their XI

 

[elmo]

It is possible that this is just coincidence, but it is rather odd to have such a small representation of people of colour in the club. I feel OP could have used a better choice of words, but the point they make is at least worth investigating. These kind of things in certain organizations are not that uncommon as some people would like to believe. It is a form of covert racism that exists in our society and people dismissing it without taking a deeper look into evidence are just like ostriches hiding their head in sand.

Or Burnley just isn't that attractive to people of colour due to the lack of diversity of people living there and Burnley can't afford to pay enough for players to overlook that.

 

[anurag]

Or Burnley just isn't that attractive to people of colour due to the lack of diversity of people living there and Burnley can't afford to pay enough for players to overlook that.

Or the community where Burnley is situated is not welcoming to people of different cultures and people working at the club come from the same community

 

[rcoobc]

I was just looking at Burnley's squad and is anyone else amazed at the lack of diversity in the squad both from a nationality and race perspective. I'm not accusing them of anything but its odd as every other team in the league has a decent mix.

It probably says a lot about their style of play too. In the PL you'd expect to have black players in the squad as genetically they are the most athletic. Most teams also have French or Spanish players as they produce the best footballers in Europe along with Germany. There are also a lot more South American players in the PL because frankly their players are usually a joy to watch and have the extra skill and flair needed in teams.

I find it quite odd that Burnley wouldn't want some of these qualities in their team. I mean it's served them well so far but looking at them you can't help but feel one of the reasons they are bottom is due to lack of pace, athleticism and skill in the side. Pulis was a fecking dinosaur but even he had a diverse team with the likes of Begovic, Nzonzi, Kenwyne Jones.

My question to the Caf is do you think this is deliberate from Burnley?

Does anyone else find this characterisation of black people as "genetically the most athletic" as rather problematic.

Rather leaning into lazy stereotypes.

 

[Cheimoon]

In the PL you'd expect to have black players in the squad as genetically they are the most athletic.

At this point, you should have erased the entire post, not made this thread, and gone and done something else.

Yes. This myth has to die. Race is literally skin-deep; there is nothing beyond it genetically - and that's the science of it. (I.e., there is no scientific doubt about this. A few references for those that think there's space to rationally disagree: link1, link2, link3.) I have no idea why Burnley doesn't have more black players, but it's got nothing to do with any particular athleticism.

 

[Suvvernmanc]

Sean Dyche has been on talksport radio and has said burnley would buy players from the UK where the club can phone their many contacts and say 'what is this lads character like?' They spend on a budget and cannot necessarily get these answers for European/foreign players.

There is no foul play and nobody should be insinuating there is racism, discrimination or anything of the sort. (I'm not saying the OP is by writing the post)

Burnley should be able to buy who they want without accusations of any sort. They are run very well and run it under very tight purse strings. They buy local and dont want to risk any amount of money on a player from a different league, different country or different continent. One could say its a strategy that's done them very well.

 

[El Jefe]

The former Independent now Guardian sportswriter and professional shit stirrer Jonathan Liew made this very same insinuation a few years ago, as did L'Equipe.

The simple answer is a British club with limited resources has British players.

Dyche also has a very specific set of demands which begin with a lot of off pitch qualities. It wouldn't surprise me if he found that it's easier to get domestic players who have grown up with coaches and fathers/brothers/uncles espousing similar attitudes to the game than someone from a different culture. Dyche has used black players - Dwight McNeil, Lennon, Andre Gray - all domestic.

Sounds like you have an axe to grind.

How does it sound like I have an axe to grind when I've made a simple observation which is clearly visible . What's funny is through your response, you are suggesting it is deliberate from Burnley/Dyche. That was the question I posed, coincidence or deliberate.

Three players is very small wouldn't you say? and you've only listed black British players, so still no South Americans, Africans or even Spanish/French players.

Brighton is a club in a similar situation to Burnley and they have no such issues. I would also like to know these specific set of off pitch qualities you speak of.

At this point, you should have erased the entire post, not made this thread, and gone and done something else.

When you have time, please list the most athletically gifted sportsmen of all time. If you don't notice a pattern, I'll hold my hands up and apologise to you and the whole caf.

 

[El Jefe]

I find it funny you didn't say due to lack of brain, tactic, idea or discipline, etc, are you implying diversify player only good at pace, athleticism, and skill?

No I'm not. Don't even know how you arrived at that through my post.

 

[I_live_cement]

When you have time, please list the most athletically gifted sportsmen of all time. If you don't notice a pattern, I'll hold my hands up and apologise to you and the whole caf.

Cristiano Ronaldo, Rafa Nadal, Novak Djokovic, Lionel Messi.

They all come from sunny countries? Is that it?

 

[sebsheep]

Cristiano Ronaldo, Rafa Nadal, Novak Djokovic, Lionel Messi.

They all come from sunny countries? Is that it?

Daley Thompson, wasn't really born in a sunny country (England) so that can't be it!

 

[Cheimoon]

When you have time, please list the most athletically gifted sportsmen of all time. If you don't notice a pattern, I'll hold my hands up and apologise to you and the whole caf.

That's anecdotal evidence since top sports people constitute a statistically insignificant sample. As I said, the science is in complete agreement over this: race genetically only has implications for the skin, nothing else. If you are truly interested in the topic, read the links in my post below.

Yes. This myth has to die. Race is literally skin-deep; there is nothing beyond it genetically - and that's the science of it. (I.e., there is no scientific doubt about this. A few references for those that think there's space to rationally disagree: link1, link2, link3.) I have no idea why Burnley doesn't have more black players, but it's got nothing to do with any particular athleticism.

Edit: those links don't go into athleticism a lot specifically, so if you want to know more about that, read the section called Black Power in this article: link4.

 

[anant]

Quite sure that the thread is inspired from this article: https://smarterscout.com/articles/p...yche-burnley-blm-black-lives-matter-szymanski

 

[El Jefe]

Cristiano Ronaldo, Rafa Nadal, Novak Djokovic, Lionel Messi.

They all come from sunny countries? Is that it?

That's anecdotal evidence since top sports people constitute a statistically insignificant sample. As I said, the science is in complete agreement over this: race genetically only has implications for the skin, nothing else. If you are truly interested in the topic, read the links in my post below.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1288306-the-greatest-pure-athletes-of-all-time
20 of the 25 in the list happen to be black. Of course this list isn't the be all and end all but even go across PL teams and the same pattern will be seen. Our most athletic players are probably Rashford, TFM, Axel, Bailly, Pogba and so on.

But anyway that's for another thread. Let's get back to Burnley, my thread wasn't about why are there no black players in Burnley. I specifically made mention of other races and countries. If you make another thread about athleticism, I'd be happy to debate there.

 

[dannyrhinos89]

Who cares though?

They're a shit team a d play a shit style of football. Sooner they go down the better.

 

[I_live_cement]

It's funny how no one ever mentions the lack of Asian players at clubs.

Despite the fact that black people make up only 3% of the population of the UK yet make up over 30% of players in the PL there is still seemingly a problem?

I don't get it.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Aaron Lennon bro

 

[MattofManchester]

When you have time, please list the most athletically gifted sportsmen of all time. If you don't notice a pattern, I'll hold my hands up and apologise to you and the whole caf.

Rafael Nadal, Roger Federer, Cristiano Ronaldo, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Michael Phelps.

This idea that a different skin colour makes you superior in some way is almost Nazi-like ffs.

 

[sebsheep]

It's funny how no one ever mentions the lack of Asian players at clubs.

Despite the fact that black people make up only 3% of the population of the UK yet make up over 30% of players in the PL there is still seemingly a problem?

I don't get it.

You'll need to check how athletic they are with @El Jefe

 

[dbs235]

Dwight McNeil isn't white and he starts every week for them.

 

[Sara125]

I know you meant no harm by it but black people are no more ‘genetically’ athletic than any other race

 

[Jericho]

I'm sorry but what's really the point of such thread and such discussion ?

Modern leftist thinking has conditioned some people to see everything through the lense of race and gender. When they do this kind of thing they think it makes them appear progressive and virtuous.

 

[arthurka]

Ok why is this a thing and Wengers LeArse with no UK players was ok? It's a team from the UK and having mostly UK players shouldn't be an issue.

 

[led_scholes]

I don't get where is the problem?
If we had some evidence that Dyche and the management were indeed racist, there would be a massive problem. But to make an assumption based on their looks is pretty weird. Moreover, diversity is not only about race.

I remember the time when Newcastle were buying mostly from the french market, french speaking players. Would you say that Pardew and Ashley were crypto-French nationalists??

 

[Classical Mechanic]

That is 3%.

And when it comes to professional football, there 33% of players are BAME (predominantly black).

You would have to go out of your way to avoid BAME players for you to end up with an entire squad of white players.

The last part of your post is just ridiculous. Are the white players paid in chips and sandwiches?

Give your head a wobble.

It doesn't appear to be so in women's football. Most of the players seem to be white. I'd guess it's to do with gender roles in the respective cultures.

 

[Sweet Square]

Does anyone else find this characterisation of black people as "genetically the most athletic" as rather problematic.

Rather leaning into lazy stereotypes.

Yeah it's completely fecked up and a racist stereotype.

 

[The Original]

It's funny how no one ever mentions the lack of Asian players at clubs.

Despite the fact that black people make up only 3% of the population of the UK yet make up over 30% of players in the PL there is still seemingly a problem?

I don't get it.

First of all, lots of people talk about the lack of Asian players at clubs and the reasons are obvious. Not many Asian kids coming through the ranks.

Black kids do play football and for some reason do excel at it. This has led to a statistical overrepresentation across the league.

The point is not that black players are underrepresented, the point is that black players are overrepresented thus it is very strange that while other clubs have more black players than they statistically should, Burnley has just much less.

I don't see anyone saying they should buy black players either.

The point of the thread is simply discussing why Burnley is such a conspicuous statistical anomaly.

 

[Martial'sEmergingSmile]

3% of the population is black.

My only enduring question to you is why does a club with Burnely's stature have no black players in its first team despite BAME players (predominantly black) being 33% of all professional footballers?

My only enduring question to you is - given your statistics - why are white people so underrepresented as professional footballers and what steps and initiatives can be set up to help this poor, underrepresented group?

I know I shouldn't have to say this, but this is mostly sarcastic.

Would note though, that if the numbers were flipped, it would suddenly become a serious topic (as you can see with this thread).

 

[The Original]

It doesn't appear to be so in women's football. Most of the players seem to be white. I'd guess it's to do with gender roles in the respective cultures.

Fair point.

My only enduring question to you is - given your statistics - why are white people so underrepresented as professional footballers and what steps and initiatives can be set up to help this poor, underrepresented group?

I know I shouldn't have to say this, but this is mostly sarcastic.

I do note though, that if the numbers were flipped, it would suddenly become a serious topic (as you can see with this thread).

This is not about affirmative action. If blacks are not great at swimming or do not excel at tennis, no one would demand that you pick an Olympics team full of black swimmers or tennis players.

The point is that the statistics show a trend (that black players are dominant in English football), and when one team is such a statistical anomaly to that trend, asking why is a perfectly valid endeavour.

 

[Sweet Square]

This happened only a few months back during a Burnley game.

It's a small English town with a large reactionary white population. Shit football team that plays shite football in a shit hole town.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Fair point.

Regarding the Burnley team: Dyche plays the old school British style of football. His players are predominantly from the Anglosphere and Scandinavia where this football culture came from and spread to. He signs players that suit his style of football.

I think Dwight McNeill is mixed race too.

This happened only a few months back during a Burnley game.

And what did Dyche say about it

 

[thegregster]

It's mainly down to the fact that they shop in the lower leagues.

 

[drdoityourself]

They have an identity which has kept them up even though they haven't spent as much as the teams around them. Which is to sign almost exclusively British players or foreigners proven in England such as Pieters and Jóhann Berg. There is nothing wrong with that. Could even keep scouting costs down.

McNeil is mixed race, Lennon is black and Dyche signed Nakhi Wells and Andre Grey for starring roles a few years back. There have been a few more, not many but I don't see it other than a coincidence and a product off buying in England.

 

[Cassidy]

My only enduring question to you is - given your statistics - why are white people so underrepresented as professional footballers and what steps and initiatives can be set up to help this poor, underrepresented group?

I know I shouldn't have to say this, but this is mostly sarcastic.

Would note though, that if the numbers were flipped, it would suddenly become a serious topic (as you can see with this thread).

If the numbers were flipped... you my friend need to give your head a wobble.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

This op is a car crash from start to finish

Oh be quiet. People are allowed to observe things innocently!.

 

[El Jefe]

Ok why is this a thing and Wengers LeArse with no UK players was ok? It's a team from the UK and having mostly UK players shouldn't be an issue.

First of all, lots of people talk about the lack of Asian players at clubs and the reasons are obvious. Not many Asian kids coming through the ranks.

Black kids do play football and for some reason do excel at it. This has led to a statistical overrepresentation across the league.

The point is not that black players are underrepresented, the point is that black players are overrepresented thus it is very strange that while other clubs have more black players than they statistically should, Burnley has just much less.

I don't see anyone saying they should buy black players either.

The point of the thread is simply discussing why Burnley is such a conspicuous statistical anomaly.

Thank you very much. I don't see why some are getting so precious about this. Burnley have been in the league for a long time now and the make up of their squad is very different to others in the league.

 

[AkaAkuma]

I read an article this week whereby Patrick Bamford spoke of his time at burnley, he felt ostracised by Dyche based on the fact he had been privately educated and had come through the comfortable environment of the chelsea academy. The jist was that he didnt know the meaning of hardwork.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I read an article this week whereby Patrick Bamford spoke of his time at burnley, he felt ostracised by Dyche based on the fact he had been privately educated and had come through the comfortable environment of the chelsea academy. The jist was that he didnt know the meaning of hardwork.

So now he's discriminating against privileged white men?! What exactly is Dyche up to?