Dimitar Berbatov | 2009/10 Performances

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rotherham_red said:
I dont think he had that bad a game tbh. If the midfield was not there to support him, what do you expect him to do? I said it before the game, he would do fine, if he got adequate midfield support, and tbh, he didnt get much, if any, til Nani came on and stretched Chelsea from both sides...
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I agree to the extent that he had a decent game. I want this guy to succeed. Because he is class and if he does perform to the level I think he can, he'd add something very different to our attack.

The problem is that we can't rely on him for goals and a direct threat. When Rooney gets injured, or is rested, you can see how worried everyone around here gets.

His game is improving but I really think he isn't going to improve any further and will never provide the direct threat we need him to in big games
 
Interval Level said:
I agree to the extent that he had a decent game. I want this guy to succeed. Because he is class and if he does perform to the level I think he can, he'd add something very different to our attack.

The problem is that we can't rely on him for goals and a direct threat. When Rooney gets injured, or is rested, you can see how worried everyone around here gets.

His game is improving but I really think he isn't going to improve any further and will never provide the direct threat we need him to in big games
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He doesnt need to improve per se. Rather, he needs to get back to what he was at Tottenham...
 
Rooney as a lone striker isn't much of a threat when the team isn't playing well and getting the ball to him properly (versus just throwing it over and hope he can latch on to it between 2 center halves)

What Rooney does give you is that extra work rate as a lone striker. Berbatov though has been putting a lot more effort than we've ever seen from him. He isn't Rooney but, he also is a threat - he has the ability / skill / imagination to make things happen.

There are going to be very few players if any that can give you the same threat as Rooney if and when Rooney is out. As a partner to Rooney, they've been working pretty decently - not great yet. Not sure what people expected on Saturday. He put in a decent performance, got in scoring positions, worked hard and in the end missed a great chance to save us - he'll miss again, so will Rooney and so will everyone else.

He'll deliver for us on Wednesday - at least I hope he and the rest of the team do.
 
I hope he does deliver on Wednesday, but I must say as someone who has always defended him I was disappointed with him on Saturday. It was his big chance to prove himself and he really, along with others didnt impose themselves at all
 
rotherham_red said:
I dont think he had that bad a game tbh. If the midfield was not there to support him, what do you expect him to do? I said it before the game, he would do fine, if he got adequate midfield support, and tbh, he didnt get much, if any, til Nani came on and stretched Chelsea from both sides...
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Exactly.

Hes clearly a quality player, but hes been messed about with alot and we'll never get the best out of him.
 
We've messed him about a lot because we have or had better players in the team. His adaptability or lack of is one of the reasons why he has struggled at times and why Ferguson if rumours are true is in a hurry to rush back Wayne Rooney for Wednesday.

Face it, he's not a good enough player to have the team based round him.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
We've messed him about a lot because we have or had better players in the team. His adaptability or lack of is one of the reasons why he has struggled at times and why Ferguson if rumours are true is in a hurry to rush back Wayne Rooney for Wednesday.

Face it, he's not a good enough player to have the team based round him.
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Who's fault is that? He hasnt changed his game much since his days at Spurs. Fergie knew what he was getting when he bought him.

IMHO What fecked things up was Tevez leaving. It probably would have been a 4-3-3 this season with Rooney and Tevez playing withdrawn roles off Berbatov, who would act as a "No.9" in the Totti mould, dropping off to create, allowing Rooney and Tevez to bombard forward...
 
FlawlessThaw said:
We've messed him about a lot because we have or had better players in the team. His adaptability or lack of is one of the reasons why he has struggled at times and why Ferguson if rumours are true is in a hurry to rush back Wayne Rooney for Wednesday.

Face it, he's not a good enough player to have the team based round him.
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We've messed him about because our midfield isn't strong enough. Name these better players though.

Hes at his best where he actually has a partner. So, I find peoples comments this weekend about how they've finally lost patience with him absurd.

You're right, hes not good enough to have the team based around him, that's Rooney.
 
rotherham_red said:
Who's fault is that? He hasnt changed his game much since his days at Spurs. Fergie knew what he was getting when he bought him.

IMHO What fecked things up was Tevez leaving. It probably would have been a 4-3-3 this season with Rooney and Tevez playing withdrawn roles off Berbatov, who would act as a "No.9" in the Totti mould, dropping off to create, allowing Rooney and Tevez to bombard forward...
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I was never keen on Ferguson signing Berbatov and still can't fathom what his main role would have been. Especially as SAF said he misused Berbatov last season. Berbatov has technically changed his game from Spurs though. He was a confident player there whilst at United the pressure of playing for us is always a constant factor with him. He's a bit of a fragile and sensitive player in that regard.

I don't think we would have played 4-3-3 with Rooney, Tevez and Berbatov though. Tevez was never a wide player and that team would have seriously lacked width and pace which is never the way United play. It may have been a mistake to sell Tevez and not really replace him but he was a cnut anyway. But more than likely if we brought in Benzema as planned Berbatov would have been warming the bench more often than he already has.
 
Fletcher's Jilted Lover said:
We've messed him about because our midfield isn't strong enough. Name these better players though.

Hes at his best where he actually has a partner. So, I find peoples comments this weekend about how they've finally lost patience with him absurd.

You're right, hes not good enough to have the team based around him, that's Rooney.
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EricaNo7 said:
i'll probably cause uproar here, but a good attack is only as good as its midfield and we've not had a really first class midfield for a while now.
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I agree though that he is best when he is performing with a partner. Although I'm not completely convinced by Rooney-Berbatov it has still been more than good enough against most teams. I reckon most players would play well alongside Rooney as Saha and Ronaldo would testify.

Most of the top teams play with a 3 man midfield; Barca, Arsenal etc. We're slightly different in that we play with a 2 man central midfield in the smaller matches but it's not something we do alone because of a weak midfield.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
I was never keen on Ferguson signing Berbatov and still can't fathom what his main role would have been. Especially as SAF said he misused Berbatov last season. Berbatov has technically changed his game from Spurs though. He was a confident player there whilst at United the pressure of playing for us is always a constant factor with him. He's a bit of a fragile and sensitive player in that regard.

I don't think we would have played 4-3-3 with Rooney, Tevez and Berbatov though. Tevez was never a wide player and that team would have seriously lacked width and pace which is never the way United play. It may have been a mistake to sell Tevez and not really replace him but he was a cnut anyway. But more than likely if we brought in Benzema as planned Berbatov would have been warming the bench more often than he already has.
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Neither was Rooney, but thats besides the point. They wouldnt have played as wingers, rather as support strikers, they would have ran into the spaces Berbatov would leave behind as he dropped off. They both would have thrived, I reckon...
 
His good in a 4-4-2 against the lesser teams because he has good vision and brings in every player into attack. His not cut for a 4-5-1, because he doesn't have the physical capabilities or the right positional sense to play it. It's really angers me when he picks up the ball from 30-40 metres out, dribbles and plays either Valencia and Nani and then runs like a turtle to get to the box leaving them with no crossing options. He is a good player nevertheless but I don't think his cut out for our style.
 
rotherham_red said:
Neither was Rooney, but thats besides the point. They wouldnt have played as wingers, rather as support strikers, they would have ran into the spaces Berbatov would leave behind as he dropped off. They both would have thrived, I reckon...
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They would have had to have played as wingers even if you called them support strikers. They would have played out wide to make up for the lack of width in that formation. I know it's just your opinion but it's not something Ferguson would have gone for I reckon.
 
EricaNo7 said:
i'll probably cause uproar here, but a good attack is only as good as its midfield and we've not had a really first class midfield for a while now.
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Red Defence said:
No Erica, I agree with you completely here.
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It is the in-thing to say at the moment. But it is obviously wrong. Look at how much we have won in recent years and how far we have gotten in the Champions League and realise we haven't had a world class midfielder for a long time.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
It is the in-thing to say at the moment. But it is obviously wrong. Look at how much we have won in recent years and how far we have gotten in the Champions League and realise we haven't had a world class midfielder for a long time.
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Our central midfield has been lacking in terms of quality attacking players for ages. We can compensate when we have someone like Rooney and Ronaldo up top but playing anyone at a level below those two (i.e. pretty much every other striker in Europe) as a lone striker and we lack an attacking threat from midfield. Park is the only midfielder intelligent enough to make that formation work on a regular basis but he tends to get out-muscled and we can't rely on him to perform in every big game.

feck it, even with Rooney up top we've looked toothless plenty of times this season. Good examples being Chelsea away, Wolfsburg/CSKA away and Bayern last week (plus loads of other examples in the last few years, hence 451 remains a fairly unpopular formation). In all of those games Rooney ended up isolated, frustrated and starved of chances i.e. exactly what happened to Berbatov on Saturday.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
It is the in-thing to say at the moment. But it is obviously wrong. Look at how much we have won in recent years and how far we have gotten in the Champions League and realise we haven't had a world class midfielder for a long time.
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They were younger then and we had more choice in midfield. The players got a chance to rest and were fresher when they did play, which is not the case at the moment. We are now relying on the same few to play each game and some of those openly admit they do not really recover in less than a week. This puts more pressure on the players who are playing with them.

If you look at our matches we are far more successful when the midfield are having a blinder of a game. Stands to reason that, it helps the defence and strikers no end. Otherwise we start having to rely on long balls to make any headway.

(Btw: The in-thing atm is Berba bashing.).
 
FlawlessThaw said:
It is the in-thing to say at the moment. But it is obviously wrong. Look at how much we have won in recent years and how far we have gotten in the Champions League and realise we haven't had a world class midfielder for a long time.
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It doesn't matter if you've got someone who can do it all on their own but Berbatov's always been there to make it easier for others to do not to do it all himself.

Boss said:
And put myself through that dire performance of him strolling around the pitch, don't worry I'll look at some stats to convince me he did a good job.
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If you couldn't see him 'busting a gut' to make a header in the Chelsea game you're blind I'm afraid.

Try watching the highlights. There's a pretty decent one right there which shows you're talking balls.
 
Dans said:
Busting a gut once in a game is not really enough though is it?
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Busting a gut's something fans want to see not something the team needs.

If it was then we'd not have bought him in the first place. Or Carrick.
 
Boss said:
Stats and highlights, what's the world coming to brwned?
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You're not gonna bother admitting you were talking balls then? Suppose it's just better to avoid the real point.
 
Don't get this whole fragile thing from. The media constantly spouts it but, what on the field gives people that impression, that he is mentally fragile.

More and more these days you see him working harder and even yelling at his teammates to do things differently. These aren't signs of a mentally fragile player that is shrinking away from the game because the pressure is too much.

Wait, maybe it's because when he is "shouting" - its because the pressure is getting to him and too weak to handle it. When Rooney is does it, it's because of his desire to win and his competitive streak.

The game on Saturday hardly showed a player that folded under the pressure by going completely missing. His performance was indicative of how the whole team played.
 
Brwned said:
You're not gonna bother admitting you were talking balls then?
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Why because he ran to meet a header, I half heartedly applaud, what about all the times he was strolling aimlessly across Chelseas back line instead of providing an option for the midfield in the first place by making intelligent runs? People blame the midfield for Berbatovs failings on Saturday but they really turned it on in the second half whilst our number 9 was still on flight mode. Maybe he conserves energy but he's conserving it for the wrong moments it seems.
 
Brwned said:
It doesn't matter if you've got someone who can do it all on their own but Berbatov's always been there to make it easier for others to do not to do it all himself.
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That is completely true. Which is why he isn't suited to to playing up front on his own. His role is to support, he's not a matchwinner which is why against Bayern there is a large majority hoping for Macheda to start alongside him despite our weakness in midfield.
 
Boss said:
Why because he ran to meet a header, I half heartedly applaud, what about all the times he was strolling aimlessly across Chelseas back line instead of providing an option for the midfield in the first place by making intelligent runs? People blame the midfield for Berbatovs failings on Sunday but they really turned it on in the second half whilst our number 9 was still on flight mode. Maybe he conserves energy but he's conserving it for the wrong moments it seems.
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Because you made a blatantly wrong comment about him not busting a gut in two years, despite the fact you could point out plenty of times when he has...

If you can't see how him 'conserving energy' has actually benefitted us then I don't really know what to say.
 
Brwned said:
Because you made a blatantly wrong comment about him not busting a gut in two years, despite the fact you could point out plenty of times when he has...

If you can't see how him 'conserving energy' has actually benefitted us then I don't really know what to say.
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You don't have to get so technical about it, you know what I meant. The majority of the time he doesn't bust a gut when the ball is spread out wide and that's what actually matters, the majority of the time not those bleeding rare moments.

It didn't benefit us on Sunday, when our midfield had the ball he should have been dragging Chelseas center backs all over the place by making runs instead of just walking around like Rooney would do. It's not about ability and this type of play should not be beneath him. He didn't give the midfield a real option at times and he needs to step it up against Bayern if we are to progress. Make your off the ball movement a nightmare to deal with, don't let Terry go into the dressing room not having broke a sweat tracking you.
 
One problem we had against Chelsea is that they knew he was always wanting the ball to feet, so the defenders came in and took it off his toe a bunch of times. Now for a player with "intelligent movement" to not use that as an oppertunity to spin in behind the defence once or twice, which is something he did do often for Spurs... Well, that part was dissappointing and it made us easier to deal with.
 
Brwned said:
Busting a gut's something fans want to see not something the team needs.

If it was then we'd not have bought him in the first place. Or Carrick.
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It's called putting in the effort. Berbatov doesn't do that, simply. Convince yourself that he's a great player all you want - in my eyes he's just fecking lazy.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
Had his chance on Sunday, blew it.

I would rather have Saha.
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Not sure about him blowing his chance since he will play against Munich and given he is Ferguson's last marquee signing he will be backed heavily.

Agree though that I would rather have Saha and if he wasn't such a cnut I would have Tevez instead as well.
 
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