Dimitar Berbatov | 2009/10 Performances

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EZee - just in case you missed them:

Berbatov has scored 9 in 24 league appearances (16 starts).
Anelka has scored 8 in 24 league appearances (23 stars).
 
Feed Me said:
Are you just going to overlook the stats then?
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I can **** of 30 million reasons that lazy cnut shouldnt play for us...

30 million and one if you count the fact that he does not score enough goals which you seem to think he does:wenger::wenger::wenger::wenger:
 
Ekeke said:
The main reason Rooney didnt score more before was because every season he'd miss a chunk of matches through injury. He now scores goals in a different way to before, but there's nothing to say that had we not moved him closer to the goal, he couldnt have bettered his goalscoring in the way he was playing before if he just stayed fit like he has for almost all this season. I mean he's been leading the line for over 2 seasons now, another 2 seasons continuing to do what he did before and he'd have improved his tallies there as well. Ronaldo could score 42 off the wing afterall, we're not a side where you have to be the CF to score loads of goals.
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He has had injuries I won't deny that. He's also been prone to proper boom-bust periods. He'd go up to 10 games without a goal sometimes. He's improved his goalscoring because he's been playing more disciplined this season.
 
Feed Me said:
EZee - just in case you missed them:

Berbatov has scored 9 in 24 league appearances (16 starts).
Anelka has scored 8 in 24 league appearances (23 stars).
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last season started 29 games (plus 2 subs appearences) in the pl.. scored 9...

shit scoring ratio for a striker... bin the lazy cnut
 
B Cantona said:
If you want a stat, it's that we've won the last ten games Rooney HASN'T started...

Lies, damn lies and statistics eh!
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I'm not sure what you're trying to get at? I'd read that stat as meaning that even without our best player, we have the quality and mentality to find a way to win.

The fact that it is the last 10 matches is probably compelling enough evidence to suggest that it's not just a fluke that we can win without Rooney.

No doubt, someone will counter by saying that we were unconvincing without him today. True. But we've been convincing with him on occasions as well.

EZee said:
I can **** of 30 million reasons that lazy cnut shouldnt play for us...

30 million and one if you count the fact that he does not score enough goals which you seem to think he does:wenger::wenger::wenger::wenger:
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You're being a bit of an embarrassment mate.
 
Feed Me said:
EZee - just in case you missed them:

Berbatov has scored 9 in 24 league appearances (16 starts).
Anelka has scored 8 in 24 league appearances (23 stars).
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If you're going to do that, then also go into the fact Anelka has 7 assists and Berbatov has 5.

Regardless, Anelka plays a different role when he plays next to Drogba. He drops deeper and helps the buildup play more in that role but he's probably not as good as when he's the one leading the line in Drogba's absence.

Berbatov on the other hand is better with a partner, and except for today always plays with a partner. He should therefore have been at his best more often than Anelka playing a different role for the team where he isnt quite as good.
 
EZee said:
last season started 29 games (plus 2 subs appearences) in the pl.. scored 9...

shit scoring ratio for a striker... bin the lazy cnut
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You're not all there, are you?
 
EZee said:
last season started 29 games (plus 2 subs appearences) in the pl.. scored 9...

shit scoring ratio for a striker... bin the lazy cnut
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1 in 3 is probably not as good as we hoped for, but by no means is it "shit". It's probably about the sort of ratio that Rooney has been scoring at for the last few years.

You've definetly got an agenda if you're calling 9 in 29 "shit".
 
EZee said:
I can **** of 30 million reasons that lazy cnut shouldnt play for us...
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I just don't understand 'fans' with vendettas like this against specific players.

He may not be the player you'd like, but surely you're not so myopic and anti Berbatov that you can't see what he brings to the side ignoring the goal scoring stats?
 
EZee said:
well to be fair if you are talking about ratios you should also mention games played...

anelka played 19 scored 8 in the pl = 50% strike rate
anelka played 25 scored 12 in all comps = 48% strike rate

berbatov played 25 scord 9 in the pl = 36% strike rate
berbatov played 32 scord 9 in all comps = 28% strike rate

arshavin played 25 scored 8 in the pl = 32% strike rate
arshavin played 32 scored 10 in all comps = 31% strike rate

so basically he has done about as well as a midfielder which for a 30 million quid striker is a bit pants

and for comparison a pleyer we probably would still have if we hadnt signed berbatov

tevez played 24 scored 15 in the pl = 62% strike rate
tevez played 31 scored 21 in all comps = 67% strike rate

(all stats from wiki today)
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Berbatov has scored more league goals than Anelka in less minutes.

Berbatov's goals:minute ratio this season is twice as good as Tevez' last season.

Minus penalties, Tevez' goals:minute ratio in the league is virtually identical to Berbatov's.


Stats.
 
Feed Me said:
He has had injuries I won't deny that. He's also been prone to proper boom-bust periods. He'd go up to 10 games without a goal sometimes. He's improved his goalscoring because he's been playing more disciplined this season.
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Agreed. But Rooney was always providing for others during those periods without goals, the same as Berbatov usually is.

So most likely if Berbatov played a more disciplined game when he plays as our lone front man he'd reap the same rewards and get more of the goals we need.
 
Ekeke said:
If you're going to do that, then also go into the fact Anelka has 7 assists and Berbatov has 5.

Regardless, Anelka plays a different role when he plays next to Drogba. He drops deeper and helps the buildup play more in that role but he's probably not as good as when he's the one leading the line in Drogba's absence.

Berbatov on the other hand is better with a partner, and except for today always plays with a partner. He should therefore have been at his best more often than Anelka playing a different role for the team where he isnt quite as good.
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That's fine mate. Bring assists into it, though it's less cut and dried when it comes to assists as to how much work the assist-maker has actually done. In any case, all your stat proves is that there has been very little between the two.
 
Ekeke said:
Agreed. But Rooney was always providing for others during those periods without goals, the same as Berbatov usually is.

So most likely if Berbatov played a more disciplined game when he plays as our lone front man he'd reap the same rewards and get more of the goals we need.
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I totally agree with you mate. It would be ideal if he could play more disciplined. But sometimes it's hard to buck your natural inclination on a football pitch. Berbatov clearly likes to roam and he seems to revel in the role of creator and link-man. Some people are going to have to change the criteria by which they judge him.

Really, I could understand the ire if he was in a terrible run of form. But he's played well this season. Strange.
 
Feed Me said:
That's fine mate. Bring assists into it, though it's less cut and dried when it comes to assists as to how much work the assist-maker has actually done. In any case, all your stat proves is that there has been very little between the two.
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Yep. Little between the two in terms of productivity this season, but as I said Anelka's contributions are marginalised when Drogba is playing alongside him. He has to play a role he doesnt play as well. Anelka has been his best for Chelsea when Drogba hasnt been in the side.

Aside from today, Berbatov has been playing his better role. So surely his stats should be better anyway?

Whats cool is Anelka still does a good job when asked to play wide or play second fiddle to Drogba. It means he can always be fit into the side even when the team plays in different ways, with different tactics and formations. And when Drogba is unavailable they can get the most out of Anelka in his absence. Probably not ideal, but its great to have a striker with versatility. Berbatov doesn't have much of that at all, hence he's found himself on the bench plenty this season.
 
EZee said:
well to be fair if you are talking about ratios you should also mention games played...

anelka played 19 scored 8 in the pl = 50% strike rate
anelka played 25 scored 12 in all comps = 48% strike rate

berbatov played 25 scord 9 in the pl = 36% strike rate
berbatov played 32 scord 9 in all comps = 28% strike rate
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Nah, 8 scored in 19 is 42%.
 
Kraftwerker said:
A flop he most certainly is not.
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I disagree, he's been a complete and utter disappointment. He's shown flashes now and then of being a good player, but he's just not involved in the dangerous areas of the pitch enough to warrant a starting place. That for me, considering we spent so much money on him warrants him a flop.

It's a good day when he gets a shot on target!

In the last 5 games he's started he's had in total: 11 shots, 5 shots on target! Scoring twice.

So that averages out as 2 shots per game, 1 of which is on target. There are alot of games where he hasn't had a shot on goal (13) although half of those are as subs coming on for the last 15-20mins.

He simply plays too deep and considering my Gran could out pace him, he's often left behind in the attack, like that old dog panting to catch up.
 
RedSky At Night said:
I disagree, he's been a complete and utter disappointment. He's shown flashes now and then of being a good player, but he's just not involved in the dangerous areas of the pitch enough to warrant a starting place. That for me, considering we spent so much money on him warrants him a flop.

It's a good day when he gets a shot on target!

In the last 5 games he's started he's had in total: 11 shots, 5 shots on target! Scoring twice.

So that averages out as 2 shots per game, 1 of which is on target. There are alot of games where he hasn't had a shot on goal (13) although half of those are as subs coming on for the last 15-20mins.

He simply plays too deep and considering my Gran could out pace him, he's often left behind in the attack, like that old dog panting to catch up.
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the commentator saw that. I was thinking about the Rooney finish against Arsenal and he said it too. its stuff like that makes many think he is too 'casual' in his play.
 
The more I think about he just isnt that good, he has it all, but the application which superceds everything relly
 
today when he was played as the so called lone striker, it was almost a disastrous day for us. When we switched to 4-4-2 things looked a little better. He needs an out an out striker like Rooney alongside him. He has the ball control and touches....but his lack of urgency does frustrate.
 
RedSky At Night said:
I disagree, he's been a complete and utter disappointment. He's shown flashes now and then of being a good player, but he's just not involved in the dangerous areas of the pitch enough to warrant a starting place. That for me, considering we spent so much money on him warrants him a flop.

It's a good day when he gets a shot on target!

In the last 5 games he's started he's had in total: 11 shots, 5 shots on target! Scoring twice.

So that averages out as 2 shots per game, 1 of which is on target. There are alot of games where he hasn't had a shot on goal (13) although half of those are as subs coming on for the last 15-20mins.

He simply plays too deep and considering my Gran could out pace him, he's often left behind in the attack, like that old dog panting to catch up.
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I've tried to quantify Berbatov's value without being too harsh and judging against the massive transfer fee that is vastly inflated through no fault of his own but......he has been nothing close to brilliant, at best there are 'flashes' of greatness but overall it's just underwhelming all round. Not that he's been bad, just decent, which is just is not good enough to really make himself a vital part of this team. Sometimes I think I'm watching a different game than others when his performances are described as 'great' (maybe them people are saying the same thing about my assessment), but I genuinely would class him as a fairly uninspiring player in his short time at OT.
 
RedSky At Night said:
In the last 5 games he's started he's had in total: 11 shots, 5 shots on target! Scoring twice.
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But then in his previous two starts to those he had 11 shots and 2 goals.

Stats eh? You see them whatever way you want to see them.
 
I'm pleased with his work rate and creativity in the last games. He has a great understanding with Valencia and combines very well with Park as well. Had Rooney been on the pitch yesterday, there would have been another couple of Berba-Valencia-Rooney goals IMO. Berbatov's understanding with Nani isn't good though. Unfortunately, Nani seems to be from average to poor when he starts on the left wing. This isn't his best position.
 
B Cantona said:
If you want a stat, it's that we've won the last ten games Rooney HASN'T started...

Lies, damn lies and statistics eh!
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I've been saying for months that we need to sell the fat bastard before he loses all his value.
 
izzydiggler said:
I've tried to quantify Berbatov's value without being too harsh and judging against the massive transfer fee that is vastly inflated through no fault of his own but......he has been nothing close to brilliant, at best there are 'flashes' of greatness but overall it's just underwhelming all round. Not that he's been bad, just decent, which is just is not good enough to really make himself a vital part of this team. Sometimes I think I'm watching a different game than others when his performances are described as 'great' (maybe them people are saying the same thing about my assessment), but I genuinely would class him as a fairly uninspiring player in his short time at OT.
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Sadly, that's an accurate assessment.
 
Berbatov has grown own me since he arrived - I always said he was the wrong type of player for us, but he has shown himself to be capable.

The issue, as others have said, is that he provides very little actual goal threat, which when playing in a 4-5-1 (which seems to be our preferred formation now) that is simply unacceptable for a lone striker. He does well in a 4-4-2, or simply when there is a player with great movement/positioning around him for Berbatov to link up with. Rooney is the typical example, but if we had a forward running midfielder akin to Gerrard, Berbatov would no doubt look better.
 
Judging from his Spurs days I really thought we were buying someone very close to Cantona. Looking back those comparisons were not appropriate and unfair. I still reckon he's a wonderfully talented player and those unfair expectations together with the price paid is likely one big factor in downplaying a lot of his qualities and performances.
 
MrK said:
Nah, 8 scored in 19 is 42%.
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It doesn't matter either way - because he's actually made 24 appearances. EZee was trying to massage the figures.

Sultan said:
Judging from his Spurs days I really thought we were buying someone very close to Cantona. Looking back those comparisons were not appropriate and unfair. I still reckon he's a wonderfully talented player and those unfair expectations together with the price paid is likely one big factor in downplaying a lot of his qualities and performances.
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The price tag is definetly the thing that leads to such stinging criticism. It's a bit unfortunate for him because he was not in control of the fee to be paid for him.

This season, I think his performances have been very underrated. I'm not saying he's been outstanding, but he's made contributions that mean he's more than worth a place in our side (in a 4-4-2).
 
Sultan said:
Judging from his Spurs days I really thought we were buying someone very close to Cantona. Looking back those comparisons were not appropriate and unfair. I still reckon he's a wonderfully talented player and those unfair expectations together with the price paid is likely one big factor in downplaying a lot of his qualities and performances.
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i agree with this entirely too, sultan.

i remember his first touch led to tevez's goal against liverpool, and thinking, this is the king all over again.

very very unfair, as cantonas and ronaldos come along once in a life time.

i too think berbs is still a great player for us - and it's not as though he asked for himself to be priced at £30 million!
 
jdmufc said:
just out of interest, how much do you think we´d get for him if we were to sell him??
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I don't think there would be many takers if you take into consderation his age, salary and fees.
 
Brwned said:
But then in his previous two starts to those he had 11 shots and 2 goals.

Stats eh? You see them whatever way you want to see them.
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Browned he had 8 shots and 2 goals against Burnley. He's had 7 shots and 2 goals against Man City. Those are the 2 blips in his stats. But of course you can twist stats to suit your argument eh Brwned ;)
 
Rio in the post match interview yesterday -

"I thought Berba was fantastic, you know, great movement, led the line very well and was always a threat."
 
Judging a player based on his price tag is unfair and totally useless unless you have an alternative to that signing that would be willing to come to the club for less or as much at that time. Unless you have that then the price is just a relative measurement that says nothing about the quality we are buying.

Personally I couldn't care less. Fergie gets his transfer budgets and he uses it the way he wants. I hate it when people say stuff like "30 M striker and he is not even starting in the big games". Makes no sense.
 
Ruben said:
Judging a player based on his price tag is unfair and totally useless unless you have an alternative to that signing that would be willing to come to the club for less or as much at that time. Unless you have that then the price is just a relative measurement that says nothing about the quality we are buying.

Personally I couldn't care less. Fergie gets his transfer budgets and he uses it the way he wants. I hate it when people say stuff like "30 M striker and he is not even starting in the big games". Makes no sense.
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It makes sense when the club in question has limited funds to spend. We have to spend wisely now and make sure that the players we sign have an impact on our play. If that 30million player is flattering to decieve then it hits us hard. It's not like we're Shitty/Chelsea and can piss it up the wall, we have to manage our funds and make sure that the players we buy are effective.

He's simply not value for money and thats the issue. Theres no doubting Berbatovs quality, but he simply isn't an effective player for us. He's a luxury player.
 
nemanja15 said:
Rio in the post match interview yesterday -

"I thought Berba was fantastic, you know, great movement, led the line very well and was always a threat."
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What else is he going to say, 'I thought Berba was fecking useless and I can't bear playing with him'.

Quotes like that are meaningless, as no one will say what they're thinking in front of the media.
 
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