Diego

[Livvie]

I don't know if he's going to turn into a goal machine. I do think he will provide the team with some quality football.

But more than that - taking that penalty on Wednesday showed real guts.

 

[WeasteDevil]

I agree he had a lot of guts to take it.

I also think that he'll become a 15 goals per season striker, or should I say forward.

 

[fortyseven]

Also agree about his guts. And if someone with his miserable record can get 60+ thousand United fans + 11 superstars willing him to succeed, then there's something special about him that's worth supporting.

 

[Ever hopefull]

Like most people i'd hardly even heard of him before we signed him let alone seen him play so whether he has the finishing ability and touch to become a goal machine is yet to be seen.
His work rate is excellent and his movement makes defenders look like amateurs at times. I think he could be a good partner for Ruud given the chance. He's definately not an impact player like Ole. He's not a player who can come off the bench and score with his first touch.

 

[kkcbl]

Unfortunately, his finishing has always been poor, ala post Newcastle Cole - ask his Uruguayan coach!

 

[phunky]

finishing can be improved isn't it? anyway he's still young

 

[AlgerianRed]

Originally posted by phunky:
<strong>finishing can be improved isn't it? anyway he's still young</strong><hr></blockquote>
Listen Guys, we are talking about a 7.5 mil player not a Youth team or Home grown Kid here. 7.5 mil guys. Look at his misses and countless of stray passes and It is the way he did it. It is not that he did not score(Cole did not, but I could see the skill and the contribution, to be hopeful). I am just curious but really want to know if any Spanish or Italian club wanted him before we made the bad judgement and step in.

 

[Livvie]

Originally posted by ALGred:
<strong>
Listen Guys, we are talking about a 7.5 mil player not a Youth team or Home grown Kid here. 7.5 mil guys. Look at his misses and countless of passes and It is the way he did it. It is not that he did not score(Cole did not, but I could see the skill and the contribution, to be hopeful). I am just curious but really want to know if any Spanish or Italian club wanted him before we made the bad judgement and step in.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Separate issue AlgRed.

I just made the point that it took a lot of nerve for him to take that penalty.

 

[Ever hopefull]

Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>

Separate issue AlgRed.

I just made the point that it took a lot of nerve for him to take that penalty.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It took a tremendous amount of nerve. It could be a major turning point. If he'd miss even he's have to start wonder if it is ever meant to be. Now he can forget about getting of the mark.
You could see how desperate he was to score with the way he snatched at the shot just a few minutes earlier.

 

[AlgerianRed]

Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>

Separate issue AlgRed.

I just made the point that it took a lot of nerve for him to take that penalty.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I did not reply to you Livve, Still I would be more than extatic if he got 5 goals today, also more happy if I could see anything that shows why we paid 7.5 mil for, whether he scores or not.

 

[Livvie]

Originally posted by ALGred:
<strong>

I did not reply to you Livve, Still I would be more than extatic if he got 5 goals today, also more happy if I could see anything that shows why we paid 7.5 mil for, whether he scores or not. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Oh I agree. Just that this is my topic so people should stick to the actual point.

On the other hand, why change the habits of a lifetime.

 

[Sharkey]

but with his movement we get into such wonderful positions he finishes badly but is capbale of playing a killer ball as well. give him time i say ok he's not a youth player etc but are you then suggesting he is the finished product? my onion is if de bahs dont want to risk ole and ruud together all the time then sit diego down and explain to him that hes gonna get an extended run alongisde either of ruud ole. if saf paid 7.5 mil for him with the criticism thats come from some of youse being a fraction of what it is amongst the
ABU Zombie plague
then he should put himself on the line and take the risk now. if we are to have 3 strikers between now and whenever then its important we have faith in our 3rd forward. <img src="graemlins/angel.gif" border="0" alt="[Angel]" />

 

[AlgerianRed]

Originally posted by Sharkey:
<strong>but with his movement we get into such wonderful positions he finishes badly but is capbale of playing a killer ball as well. give him time i say ok he's not a youth player etc but are you then suggesting he is the finished product? my onion is if de bahs dont want to risk ole and ruud together all the time then sit diego down and explain to him that hes gonna get an extended run alongisde either of ruud ole. if saf paid 7.5 mil for him with the criticism thats come from some of youse being a fraction of what it is amongst the
ABU Zombie plague
then he should put himself on the line and take the risk now. if we are to have 3 strikers between now and whenever then its important we have faith in our 3rd forward. <img src="graemlins/angel.gif" border="0" alt="[Angel]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Mgrs depend on reports and not always involved in the whole process smarty.. and trust me there is more to this deal than things we know. And think about us getting somebody else we could have now if we did not spend the 7.5mil . And have your F*ken opinion but do not question my love for the team..or hint it..EVER..

<img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" />

 

[phunky]

Originally posted by ALGred:
<strong>
Listen Guys, we are talking about a 7.5 mil player not a Youth team or Home grown Kid here. 7.5 mil guys. Look at his misses and countless of stray passes and It is the way he did it. It is not that he did not score(Cole did not, but I could see the skill and the contribution, to be hopeful). I am just curious but really want to know if any Spanish or Italian club wanted him before we made the bad judgement and step in.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ok ok cool it yea Me not taking a piss or watever. Ur very right that we have everything to expect from a 7.5million striker which once was a PL transfer record for Andy Cole.

Ur also right that his off the ball running and pace do count in his favour now. At least he's not like a certain Yorke who couldnt run n couldnt score in his last season with us...

 

[antohan]

Originally posted by kkcbl:
<strong>Unfortunately, his finishing has always been poor, ala post Newcastle Cole - ask his Uruguayan coach! </strong><hr></blockquote>

Pua didn't want him for reasons too complicated to explain and found it easier to justify himself that way. After all, he was playing Silva who is well known for exactly the same problem!

I think part of the "problem" is his movement and how easily he gets himself into goalscoring opportunities (and the fact he is not afraid of shooting for goal, unlike some who prefer pissing around with the ball). If you create more chances for yourself you will miss more, simple. The same held for Cole, one day everything would work fine and he would bag 3, the next he would miss a couple of sitters.

 

[antohan]

Originally posted by ALGred:
<strong>
I am just curious but really want to know if any Spanish or Italian club wanted him before we made the bad judgement and step in.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

There was interest from other clubs and no time to negotiate (Independiente was 3-days from going bankrupt ala Fiorentina), we ended up paying over the odds, both Independiente management and Diego himself have said so.

I disagree about bad judgement, I stick to my opinion that Forlan was signed as PDC understudy and long term replacement. And then we didn't get PDC...

 

[lchk]

Originally posted by ALGred:
<strong>
Listen Guys, we are talking about a 7.5 mil player not a Youth team or Home grown Kid here. 7.5 mil guys. Look at his misses and countless of stray passes and It is the way he did it. It is not that he did not score(Cole did not, but I could see the skill and the contribution, to be hopeful). I am just curious but really want to know if any Spanish or Italian club wanted him before we made the bad judgement and step in.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hey, you haven't anwsered my PM yet.

 

[lchk]

Originally posted by antohan:
<strong>

There was interest from other clubs and no time to negotiate (Independiente was 3-days from going bankrupt ala Fiorentina), we ended up paying over the odds, both Independiente management and Diego himself have said so.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Which makes our negotiators look like right mugs, doesn't it?

 

[antohan]

Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>

Which makes our negotiators look like right mugs, doesn't it?

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Probably but would you expect them to know everything about the other club's debts? It's easy with plc but not with SAM teams.

The fact was Independiente's main problem was getting all in one go and not several payments like Boro were offering. Selling him to Boro would have still meant bankruptcy if debt negotiations failed while 5.5-6m in one go for Diego would have done the business for them.

The question is whether we knew this, otherwise all we could do is outbid Boro as we did.

 

[markpud]

anyway 7m is neither here nor there to MUPLC..

I like Diego, he works hard, creates chances and looks like he loves playing in the red shirt. He's been incredibly unlucky not to have scored something last season, and that's just built up the pressure. I hope he can come on without that pressure after getting his first goal, and we'll see the best of him.

 

[Raoul]

I think South American players should be given a full calendar year before we can expect any decent evaluation as to their long term compatability with the club. In addition to linguistic and cultural differences, Diego also has to deal with the pressure of being a Man Utd player. I think he'll come good in time, and would hope that the instant gratification crowd would look at his longterm development from a higher level. Hopefully we'll buy a player like Djibril Cisse next summer, which will take alot of pressure off of Diego's back, as he'll likely be our 4th striker and wont have to deal with the high expectations.

 

[antohan]

Originally posted by markpud:
<strong>unlucky not to have scored something last season</strong><hr></blockquote>

With his looks I'm not surprised to hear he hasn't scored "anything" last season... <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

Raoul, I agree, it is a feckload of pressure he is under simply because we are all worried at the prospect of RVN/OGS injuries so we are all desperate to see him banging them in. People would not be as obsessed with 7m if he was a 4th striker for the future (how many wanted Rio for 20-24m and then just said "Oh well, we needed him, ten year spine blabla" after we went all the way to 30+?). Him currently being our 3rd choice is not his fault.

 

[Red15]

Originally posted by antohan:
<strong>

People would not be as obsessed with 7m if he was a 4th striker for the future. Him currently being our 3rd choice is not his fault.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I totally agree with you. That's just one more reason why I wish we'd gotten DiCanio last year. It would have taken the pressure off of Diego. I think that was actually Fergie's plan but Dwight decided not to go to Middlesbrough so we weren't allowed to bring in DiCanio.

When I watch Diego play, I just get this feeling about him that in the right circumstances, he could really flourish. I was watching him on Saturday and he is such a good footballer. He showed some lovely touches and had some wonderful interchanges with other players. He's also a very unselfish player and you can always count on him to run his socks off.

I think what he needs is a good run of games, without the intense scrutiny he's been under. Unfortunately, I just don't see, at this point in time, how that can happen, because I think the most important thing right now with our current goal drought is to get Ole and Ruud going. So, for me, they both need to play right now. Hopefully, with time, Diego will get the matches he needs...

 

[Sharkey]

Originally posted by ALGred:
<strong>
And have your F*ken opinion but do not question my love for the team..or hint it..EVER..

<img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

and why de feck not Aggressive Man? feck you. I question you. there.

 

[FlyingPasty]

I think Diego is having a great game tonite, playing on his own actually as a striker and not as a supporting midfielder

 

[Livvie]

Originally posted by FlyingPasty:
<strong>I think Diego is having a great game tonite, playing on his own actually as a striker and not as a supporting midfielder</strong><hr></blockquote>

He ran all over the place, but to little effect. I've seen him play a lot better.

Did we have a shot on goal in the second half?

 

[Kinky Melinky]

Livvie Schmivvie I think you summed it up. Forlan made very little impact tonight on his own up front. He is the sort of player in his learning years that needs another few players in and around the area he is working in. Give him 2 years I tell ya. The united way will have gotten the better of him and he'll be the next Klinsmann (Sp?)

 

[christiepark_boy]

Not sure what Fergie was expecting from Forlan in the second half...he did OK, showed a bit more than we have seen from him before in terms of the occasional burst of speed, but he is in no way suited to the lone striker role, and its not an experiment that is worth repeating.

Lets give the guy a chance and play him in a forward pairing from the start of a match.

 

[Kinky Melinky]

Originally posted by christiepark_boy:
<strong> and its not an experiment that is worth repeating. </strong><hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> Quite true. I nearly crapped myself

 

[Red15]

Originally posted by christiepark_boy:
<strong>Not sure what Fergie was expecting from Forlan in the second half...he did OK, showed a bit more than we have seen from him before in terms of the occasional burst of speed, but he is in no way suited to the lone striker role, and its not an experiment that is worth repeating.

Lets give the guy a chance and play him in a forward pairing from the start of a match.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I was really surprised that he was asked to play as a lone striker. Don't think he's suited to that role at all and, as a result, the odds were stacked against him having a good match...

 

[Livvie]

I get the feeling that Ole and SAF have had a falling out.

 

[darko]

Originally posted by kkcbl:
<strong>Unfortunately, his finishing has always been poor, ala post Newcastle Cole - ask his Uruguayan coach! </strong><hr></blockquote>


Cole. Andy Cole a poor finisher? You must be joking! <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />

 

[Kinky Melinky]

Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>I get the feeling that Ole and SAF have had a falling out.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Interesting you should say so. A further explaination is welcomed.

 

[Kinky Melinky]

Come to think of it, Ole is not much better up front on his own as Forlan is. The only one who seems to be able to pull his weight up front on his own is Ruud.

 

[lucius]

diego tries hard, and the fans love him for it.
it - ie scoring goals - hasn't happened for him yet, but just watch the number of times he could shoot, but doesn't; he'll lay off a good pass. SAF's obviously happy with his contribution to the team. he knows that he's got 6 or 7 players who can pop the ball into the back of the net. give forlan time. if he doesn't do the biz then there'll be lots more behind him who will.

 

[lchk]

Originally posted by antohan:
<strong>

Probably but would you expect them to know everything about the other club's debts? It's easy with plc but not with SAM teams.

The fact was Independiente's main problem was getting all in one go and not several payments like Boro were offering. Selling him to Boro would have still meant bankruptcy if debt negotiations failed while 5.5-6m in one go for Diego would have done the business for them.

The question is whether we knew this, otherwise all we could do is outbid Boro as we did.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It's not about the mode of payment, it's the vastly inflated price of 7.5 million pounds for a "striker" of the calibre of Forlan

As usual, we got the other clubs' bank managers laughing at our follies

 

[lchk]

Originally posted by Raoul:
<strong>I think South American players should be given a full calendar year before we can expect any decent evaluation as to their long term compatability with the club. In addition to linguistic and cultural differences, Diego also has to deal with the pressure of being a Man Utd player. I think he'll come good in time, and would hope that the instant gratification crowd would look at his longterm development from a higher level. Hopefully we'll buy a player like Djibril Cisse next summer, which will take alot of pressure off of Diego's back, as he'll likely be our 4th striker and wont have to deal with the high expectations.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Do you see him lasting his contract at OT? What was it already, 4 years or so?

 

[Red_For_Life]

Originally posted by Kinky Melinky:
<strong>

Interesting you should say so. A further explaination is welcomed.</strong><hr></blockquote>

it is clear to me that SAF thought the situation through and the perfect choice was to play forlan. RVN hamstring strain , we 2-0 up , neuville out, we were not playing badly and they were not playing that well. Why risk OLE to injury for 45 mins when he is our only experienced striker.

 

[kkcbl]

I think Fergie was being too arrogant by putting Forlan, who's still a rookie, in as sole striker instead of Ole as being only 2-0 up with a full 45 minutes left was a gamble not worth taking!

We can laugh now & say 3 points is 3 points but if that Bayer header had gone in instead of hitting the post, Fergie wud have been slaughtered by the press this morning!

And the poor chap's performance showed, with him running around aimlessly & miscueing so many of his passes which put the defence under further pressure, altho' I must say he did really try very hard in a position unfamiliar to him! ( I wonder what damage that wud have done for his confidence? )

Kinky, Ole has played so many times for United & Norway as sole striker to good effect & wud have been able to hold on to the ball to relieve the pressure & with the acres of space afforded by the Bayer defence, he wud have converted from at least one of the many chances to run at the Bayer defence & which Forlan fumbled with! ( we have seen Ole break through the defence on a run so many times & convert! We don't have to give examples I'm sure! )

Andy Cole a poor finisher? You must be joking! <hr></blockquote>

Darko, much better qualified people than you or me have said so, altho' to be fair, I think he ironically improved tremendously during the final games of his career at OT & I was sad to see him go at that stage!

 

[Raoul]

Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>

Do you see him lasting his contract at OT? What was it already, 4 years or so?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes. Whether he remains a squad player or a becomes a featured striker should be resolved this year, as we will need to invest in two new strikers in the next 24 months since we don't have a 4 to begin with, and Ole turns 30 next year.