Did we sell anyone? Big summer fire sale (supposedly)

RedRonaldo said:
Wishful transfer income: 125m
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It's not as easy as United getting an extra 125 million to spend though. Amortisation and FFP will still have a massive say on our outlay, for example...

When we paid £50 million for Mount, United didn’t write a cheque to Chelsea. Instead, they agreed to pay an annual amortisation rate spread across the span of the contract, which is 5 years. So, United pay Chelsea an annual amortisation of around £10 million.

Couldn’t this system be abused by clubs handing out massively long contracts to keep their transfer spending down? *cough* Chelsea *cough* yes and no. But that’s how transfers are paid for these days, with the total amortisation of all transfers added to a club’s accounts – these annual outgoings also form part of the relevant competition’s own financial fair play calculations. That’s essentially amortisation in football.

If a club agrees a contract extension with a player, the amortisation cost then gets spread across more years – bringing down the annual cost. Bizarrely, rather than cutting their losses on a player that has lost their mojo, a club may instead offer them a contract renewal in order to barter down their annual amortisation fee.

This would be a way for clubs to pass their FFP checks, and while it would leave them with ‘dead assets’, i.e. unwanted players rotting away in the reserves, it might just be financially smart for them to go down that route.
 
Assuming we get Amrabaat, Suzuki, Onana & Hojlund on top of Mount - Who do we need to sell?

Keeper
Onana
Suzuki

Left Back
Shaw
Malacia

Right Back
AWB
Dalot

Centre Back
Varane
Martinez
Lindelof
Maguire

Defensive Mid
Casemiro
Mainoo

Number 8 (B2b or Playmaker)
Amrabat
Eriksen

Attacking Mid
Mount
Bruno

Left Wing
Sancho
Garnacho

Right Wing
Amad
Antony

Striker
Hojlund
Rashford

That's 2 for every position and doesn't include:

Loan?
Kovar
Pellistri
Mengi
A Fernandez
Elanga
Greenwood
Shoretire
Hannibal

Sell?
Martial
Mctominay
Fred
Donny
Henderson
Heaton
Bailly
Williams
Telles

Release?
Evans

That's so many players that won't be used and we will be wasting money on depreciating further, they really need a mass exodus.
 
AngeloHenriquez said:
Assuming we get Amrabaat, Suzuki, Onana & Hojlund on top of Mount - Who do we need to sell?

Keeper
Onana
Suzuki

Left Back
Shaw
Malacia

Right Back
AWB
Dalot

Centre Back
Varane
Martinez
Lindelof
Maguire

Defensive Mid
Casemiro
Mainoo

Number 8 (B2b or Playmaker)
Amrabat
Eriksen

Attacking Mid
Mount
Bruno

Left Wing
Sancho
Garnacho

Right Wing
Amad
Antony

Striker
Hojlund
Rashford

That's 2 for every position and doesn't include:

Loan?
Kovar
Pellistri
Mengi
A Fernandez
Elanga
Greenwood
Shoretire
Hannibal

Sell?
Martial
Mctominay
Fred
Donny
Henderson
Heaton
Bailly
Williams
Telles

Release?
Evans

That's so many players that won't be used and we will be wasting money on depreciating further, they really need a mass exodus.
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Sell Elanga if we can get a £20m offer.

Keep Mengi here (I feel like he needs some looking after if he’s ever going to become anything) or give Evans a 1-year deal Evans as 5th CB.

If we can get any sort of fee for Martial then sell, if not then might as well keep him for one more year for depth.

Edit:

If we’re able to sell Maguire then I’d go get a top young CB like Scalvini, Silva or Diomande but if they aren’t available, we might be able to get by with Evans instead and then going big on one of those young CBs next summer.
 
daba said:
Sell Elanga if we can get a £20 offer.

Keep Mengi here (I feel like he needs some looking after if he’s ever going to become anything) or give Evans a 1-year deal Evans as 5th CB.

If we can get any sort of fee for Martial then sell, if not then might as well keep him for one more year for depth.
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Martial's wages and injuries will keep him here
 
Widow said:
When we paid £50 million for Mount, United didn’t write a cheque to Chelsea. Instead, they agreed to pay an annual amortisation rate spread across the span of the contract, which is 5 years. So, United pay Chelsea an annual amortisation of around £10 million.
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We don't pay Chelsea amortization. Amortization is the accounting treatment of the transfer fee and has nothing to do with the timing of cash flows. Even if we pay Chelsea the 50m up front, the fee is still amortized on our books over the life of the contract.
 
Widow using big words in completely the wrong context! Big Ben has it!

amortisation is an accountancy principal and has nothing to do with paying for an asset. The payment for an asset is agreed between buyer and seller - all upfront, some upfront, rest on the drip etc, this has nothing to do with how an asset is accounted for. The players value is amortised over the period of his contract. so you buy Fred for £50m on a 5 year contract. In year 1, the asset is valued at £50m on the balance sheet. Year 2 he's valued at £40m, Year 3 £30m etc etc. Each year the club takes a £10m hit which worsens the P&L by £10m per year.

Based on the above, the longer the contract, the less per year is amortised. If Fred had a 10yr contract, there would only be £5m of amortisation as opposed to £10 so you could afford 2 Freds (please no!!). But when a club sells a player, they only see (in the accounts) the difference between the current value and the sale price. In the opening Fred example, if Fred is sold in year 4, he only has £10m of value on the balance sheet so if we sell him for £30m, we make a profit of £20m on him. If Fred's contract was 10 years, in year 4 he's still worth £20m so the profit is only £10m.

This is the positive and negative around what Chelsea have done with buying people on extended contracts.

I am not sure if I have helped or hindered this
 
Big Ben Foster said:
We don't pay Chelsea amortization. Amortization is the accounting treatment of the transfer fee and has nothing to do with the timing of cash flows. Even if we pay Chelsea the 50m up front, the fee is still amortized on our books over the life of the contract.
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R0nald0 said:
Widow using big words in completely the wrong context! Big Ben has it!

amortisation is an accountancy principal and has nothing to do with paying for an asset. The payment for an asset is agreed between buyer and seller - all upfront, some upfront, rest on the drip etc, this has nothing to do with how an asset is accounted for. The players value is amortised over the period of his contract. so you buy Fred for £50m on a 5 year contract. In year 1, the asset is valued at £50m on the balance sheet. Year 2 he's valued at £40m, Year 3 £30m etc etc. Each year the club takes a £10m hit which worsens the P&L by £10m per year.

Based on the above, the longer the contract, the less per year is amortised. If Fred had a 10yr contract, there would only be £5m of amortisation as opposed to £10 so you could afford 2 Freds (please no!!). But when a club sells a player, they only see (in the accounts) the difference between the current value and the sale price. In the opening Fred example, if Fred is sold in year 4, he only has £10m of value on the balance sheet so if we sell him for £30m, we make a profit of £20m on him. If Fred's contract was 10 years, in year 4 he's still worth £20m so the profit is only £10m.

This is the positive and negative around what Chelsea have done with buying people on extended contracts.

I am not sure if I have helped or hindered this
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I'm fully aware what and how it's used in football and stand by what I said. If fact, you're explanation is pretty much what I was implying. Maybe I wrote it wrong.

Source
 
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Andycoleno9 said:
How many players we have now in first team? 35? :wenger:
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We have 36 players (including Greenwood) in the first team squad which is way too much and above the average. We definitely must sell players this year and I am wondering when this will start. All I see is, we are being linked to different clubs but nothing serious, so I really hope this gets started soon. We are not the best by selling players so, who knows, we end up selling it for less money than expected but at least there is some progress.
 
R0nald0 said:
Widow using big words in completely the wrong context! Big Ben has it!

amortisation is an accountancy principal and has nothing to do with paying for an asset. The payment for an asset is agreed between buyer and seller - all upfront, some upfront, rest on the drip etc, this has nothing to do with how an asset is accounted for. The players value is amortised over the period of his contract. so you buy Fred for £50m on a 5 year contract. In year 1, the asset is valued at £50m on the balance sheet. Year 2 he's valued at £40m, Year 3 £30m etc etc. Each year the club takes a £10m hit which worsens the P&L by £10m per year.

Based on the above, the longer the contract, the less per year is amortised. If Fred had a 10yr contract, there would only be £5m of amortisation as opposed to £10 so you could afford 2 Freds (please no!!). But when a club sells a player, they only see (in the accounts) the difference between the current value and the sale price. In the opening Fred example, if Fred is sold in year 4, he only has £10m of value on the balance sheet so if we sell him for £30m, we make a profit of £20m on him. If Fred's contract was 10 years, in year 4 he's still worth £20m so the profit is only £10m.

This is the positive and negative around what Chelsea have done with buying people on extended contracts.

I am not sure if I have helped or hindered this
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Surely Amort and Wages are taken into account on Bs and FFP ?
 
De Gea, Telles, Jones and Elanga so far.

You'd imagine they'd be followed by Henderson, Bailly, Maguire and Van De Beek sooner rather than later.

There is also a possibility of one of Mctominey or Fred going in my opinion.

That's some clearance if it happens.
 
looks as if we are going to hang on to maguire than let him go for nothing... worrying to me that ETH still thinks he has a role to play
 
AngeloHenriquez said:
Assuming we get Amrabaat, Suzuki, Onana & Hojlund on top of Mount - Who do we need to sell?

Keeper
Onana
Suzuki

Left Back
Shaw
Malacia

Right Back
AWB
Dalot

Centre Back
Varane
Martinez
Lindelof
Maguire

Defensive Mid
Casemiro
Mainoo

Number 8 (B2b or Playmaker)
Amrabat
Eriksen

Attacking Mid
Mount
Bruno

Left Wing
Sancho
Garnacho

Right Wing
Amad
Antony

Striker
Hojlund
Rashford

That's 2 for every position and doesn't include:

Loan?
Kovar
Pellistri
Mengi
A Fernandez
Elanga
Greenwood
Shoretire
Hannibal

Sell?
Martial
Mctominay
Fred
Donny
Henderson
Heaton
Bailly
Williams
Telles

Release?
Evans

That's so many players that won't be used and we will be wasting money on depreciating further, they really need a mass exodus.
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Why do people keep shoe horning Mainoo as DM? He’s not a DM in the same way that Pogba wasn’t a DM or Fred isn’t a DM
 
MyOnlySolskjaer said:
At least two out of McTominay, Fred and Van de Beek has to leave.
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I think Fred is a goner. McTominay too especially if we get a good offer in for him and the fact that he has publicly stated that he wants to leave in order to get more minutes.
 
Fred: 18
Martial: 15mil
Elanga: 15mil
Maguire: 32mil
Beek: 12mil
Henderson: 22mil
Bailly: 8mil
Telles: 4mil

126mil in sales buys you hojlund and ambarat or kane on his own.
 
So good to see some players leave

Yet to go in my opinion but doubt everyone leaves this window:
Hendo
Van De Beek
Bailly
Fred
McTominay
Martial
Maguire
 
ForeverRed1 said:
Fred: 18
Martial: 15mil
Elanga: 15mil
Maguire: 32mil
Beek: 12mil
Henderson: 22mil
Bailly: 8mil
Telles: 4mil

126mil in sales buys you hojlund and ambarat or kane on his own.
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But that only works if you can find a buyer.
 
pocco said:
Don't think we can afford to lose both Fred and McTominay without signing another midfielder.
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Yes we'd obviously need to spend money to replace them, rumours of Amrabat and two unnamed midfielders on our transfer target list
 
Good to see we've started moving a few long terms out.

Maguire, Fred and DVB are the huge ones to move on though.
Martial probably too, though that's complicated by having no striker at all.
 
I think there's real possibility of deals being done in regards to the following outgoings: Henderson (to Forest), McTominay (West Ham), Fred (Fulham/Galatasaray), and Bailly (Saudi league). It seems the club is actively working on all of these. If Fred and McTominay both go, I expect Donny to stay. If only one of McFred leaves, the club will then pivot to selling Donny. Amrabat and Mainoo would be the squad replacements to these two midfield outgoings.

Maguire seems to be in denial about his situation with the club, and no matter what Ten Hag (and Southgate for that matter) seem to relay to him, he doesn't see it as an issue and is happy to stay here as 4th/5th choice centre back. It's going to be a lot harder to offload him because of this, but if we could, then coupled with the Telles/Elanga sales and the above outgoings, we'd be in a great situation to sign Hojlund, Amrabat, a backup keeper such as Suzuki, and even another forward on the cheap before the close of the window.
 
bosnian_red said:
Ten Hag is seemingly grooming him as a DM, and tbf I see a lot of the correct qualities for that.
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Difference between training him for the future and expecting him to be Casemiro backup at his age when he hasn’t played there before is 2 different things
 
golden_blunder said:
Difference between training him for the future and expecting him to be Casemiro backup at his age when he hasn’t played there before is 2 different things
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There’s also the confusion I read more and more here that the deepest midfielder is a de facto a defensive midfielder.

But it’s clear from the De Jong saga, the rumors about Amrabat and the way Mainoo plays during this pre-season that Ten Hag actually wants his deepest midfielder to be a Carrick/Busquets/Pirlo type, ie a player capable to retain possession, recycle the ball and play high volume passes.
 
golden_blunder said:
Difference between training him for the future and expecting him to be Casemiro backup at his age when he hasn’t played there before is 2 different things
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Ah very true. People are excited but come the season I don't expect him to be used too much. Best case is similar to Garnacho last season, where the first half he didn't play much and was bedded in before he kept making more and more of an impact. But I think he's a year off for that just due to the difficulties of playing the lone DM role in the prem.
 
We seem to make progress on the sales front recently.

Still could see Fred, Scott and Bailly leave.

Maguire is a pipe dream.
 
Jacob said:
We seem to make progress on the sales front recently.

Still could see Fred, Scott and Bailly leave.

Maguire is a pipe dream.
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Be surprised if both of McFred leave,agree that seeking Maguire looks a long way off
 
I dont think well get out and out buyers for Martial / VDB. Loan looks more likely.
 
With the ones already gone and the ones seemingly close to gone, when was the last time we had this big of a yard sale?
 
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