Dele Alli | Overlap Interview with Neville opens up on childhood trauma and mental health issues

To be honest I don't think the Sancho parallel is quite right.

So now a player shouldn't come in for perfectly valid criticism around his performances just in case several years down the line he comes out with mental health issues and a backstory? It's nonsense. I don't think anyone is lining the street to throw tomatoes at Jadon. There isn't much vitriolic stuff aimed at him I can see, except maybe the odd individual. He gets a decent reception, he is backed by the manager and club and given opportunities - all the fans are doing is calling performances for what they are. That is absolutely allowed and valid and criticism does not have to be sugarcoated.

They're really two separate issues. What has happened to Alli is absolutely deplorable and I hope he gets help. That's really the important thing out of this.
 
Abraxas said:
To be honest I don't think the Sancho parallel is quite right.

So now a player shouldn't come in for perfectly valid criticism around his performances just in case several years down the line he comes out with mental health issues and a backstory? It's nonsense. I don't think anyone is lining the street to throw tomatoes at Jadon. There isn't much vitriolic stuff aimed at him I can see, except maybe the odd individual. He gets a decent reception, he is backed by the manager and club and given opportunities - all the fans are doing is calling performances for what they are. That is absolutely allowed and valid and criticism does not have to be sugarcoated.

They're really two separate issues. What has happened to Alli is absolutely deplorable and I hope he gets help. That's really the important thing out of this.
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Completely agree with this. Not the same.

Unfortunately the spotlight comes with fame. Harsh criticism, or even just criticism is always going to be there when people are making the amounts of money that they are. There is no way around it.
 
Abraxas said:
To be honest I don't think the Sancho parallel is quite right.

So now a player shouldn't come in for perfectly valid criticism around his performances just in case several years down the line he comes out with mental health issues and a backstory? It's nonsense. I don't think anyone is lining the street to throw tomatoes at Jadon. There isn't much vitriolic stuff aimed at him I can see, except maybe the odd individual. He gets a decent reception, he is backed by the manager and club and given opportunities - all the fans are doing is calling performances for what they are. That is absolutely allowed and valid and criticism does not have to be sugarcoated.

They're really two separate issues. What has happened to Alli is absolutely deplorable and I hope he gets help. That's really the important thing out of this.
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Criticism of performance is acceptable - but there’s some posts here that really go deeper than that.
 
Abraxas said:
To be honest I don't think the Sancho parallel is quite right.

So now a player shouldn't come in for perfectly valid criticism around his performances just in case several years down the line he comes out with mental health issues and a backstory? It's nonsense. I don't think anyone is lining the street to throw tomatoes at Jadon. There isn't much vitriolic stuff aimed at him I can see, except maybe the odd individual. He gets a decent reception, he is backed by the manager and club and given opportunities - all the fans are doing is calling performances for what they are. That is absolutely allowed and valid and criticism does not have to be sugarcoated.

They're really two separate issues. What has happened to Alli is absolutely deplorable and I hope he gets help. That's really the important thing out of this.
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Sorry I disagree, the abuse he got after the EURO final must have been horrendous and may potentially be part of the problem that he obviously has
 
Abraxas said:
To be honest I don't think the Sancho parallel is quite right.

So now a player shouldn't come in for perfectly valid criticism around his performances just in case several years down the line he comes out with mental health issues and a backstory? It's nonsense. I don't think anyone is lining the street to throw tomatoes at Jadon. There isn't much vitriolic stuff aimed at him I can see, except maybe the odd individual. He gets a decent reception, he is backed by the manager and club and given opportunities - all the fans are doing is calling performances for what they are. That is absolutely allowed and valid and criticism does not have to be sugarcoated.

They're really two separate issues. What has happened to Alli is absolutely deplorable and I hope he gets help. That's really the important thing out of this.
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Imo, there is an element of truth in what you say here.

I would argue that the wider issue is putting players on massive pedestals when they're still in their teenage years then completely tearing them apart when they hit a bad run of form in their early to mid 20s. That could play absolute havoc with anyone's mental health.

I'd also say clubs should be forced to give all players (under 21s especially) regular mental health checks.
 
If a player is not mentally fit for professional football, they should stop and get help rather than carry on in an industry that is widely known to be heavy on criticism.

If they insist on carrying on, it can only end in tears.

If a player gets a physical injury and they have to retire, they retire. It's the same for the mental state.
 
Golden Nugget said:
Criticism of performance is acceptable - but there’s some posts here that really go deeper than that.
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Of course. What are we gonna do, police the thoughts of millions of worldwide Man Utd and England fans? There's always gonna be a few that let the side down. You would hope that the club have advice in place and the relevant help to support the players through tough times when these noisy numpties do get airtime.

Looking through the current performance thread and there's not much I wouldn't consider fair criticism a few pages in. So I don't think it's taken to extremes at the kind of frequency that would justify this wider point about how we must adjust our tendencies about Sancho now that Alli has said this. And that's on the internet, which tends to be more extreme than real life where I believe Sancho gets support every match. I believe Sancho's treatment is pretty fair at the moment considering what he has delivered. Not every single time, but in broad strokes I think the United fans have done okay by him.

Then we get onto the fact that Sancho has not really elaborated on any detail about what's going on with him. If it was me and I thought criticism about my job performance was being neutered because of innuendo around my mental health and background beyond what was known I'd feel I am not getting fair and honest feedback. Like some kind of protected species.
 
spiriticon said:
If a player is not mentally fit for professional football, they should stop and get help rather than carry on in an industry that is widely known to be heavy on criticism.

If they insist on carrying on, it can only end in tears.

If a player gets a physical injury and they have to retire, they retire. It's the same for the mental state.
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Easier said than done. Not as simple as just deciding oh I need to quit for myself - the strength it takes to admit to yourself and the world that something is wrong is crazy. It’s also not something anyone can really see, so no one to tell him to take it easy.
 
Ananke said:
Completely agree with this. Not the same.

Unfortunately the spotlight comes with fame. Harsh criticism, or even just criticism is always going to be there when people are making the amounts of money that they are. There is no way around it.
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I mean how can we know if it is or isn’t the same. It’s all speculation with Sancho. We have no idea how severe his issues were or what they were.
 
Good on him to talk about these issues. Everyone has his own way of dealing with things, what he did was absolutely fine by me. I hope he can revive his career now that he feels better
 
macheda14 said:
Easier said than done. Not as simple as just deciding oh I need to quit for myself - the strength it takes to admit to yourself and the world that something is wrong is crazy. It’s also not something anyone can really see, so no one to tell him to take it easy.
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I'm sure there are mental health specialists at every football club these days to help footballers assess themselves.

There shouldn't be a stigma about retiring due to mental health. No one bats an eye at Tom Cleverley having to retire young due to physical injuries. Some jobs are just not for everyone.
 
spiriticon said:
If a player is not mentally fit for professional football, they should stop and get help rather than carry on in an industry that is widely known to be heavy on criticism.

If they insist on carrying on, it can only end in tears.

If a player gets a physical injury and they have to retire, they retire. It's the same for the mental state.
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Don't agree that a player should have to retire because they're struggling with mental health. If he can get the right help and support he can get to a position where he's able to play again.
I think it's amazing that he managed to make it as a professional footballer after the childhood he had and he's an inspiration to people going through the same thing.
The main thing is that he is ok mentally but if he can somehow get back to playing his best football as well it would be great to see
 
GifLord said:
I find it weird how some of you are accepting this. The guy signed a 6year record deal with Spurs in 2018 worth over 150k and did feck all to justify it.
But because he had drug poblems because of apparent' Mental Issues' you're all 'Oh it's ok we forgive you'
He said he couldn't sleep cause of adrenalin? But he was partying every day like a madman, fecking women - even posted a fricking sextape...
If you train properly you will be tired at the end of the day so this bs about adrenalin i don't believe one bit.
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There's always one guy and of course it had to be the Gif guy.
 
Edwards6 said:
Don't agree that a player should have to retire because they're struggling with mental health. If he can get the right help and support he can get to a position where he's able to play again.
I think it's amazing that he managed to make it as a professional footballer after the childhood he had and he's an inspiration to people going through the same thing.
The main thing is that he is ok mentally but if he can somehow get back to playing his best football as well it would be great to see
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It's not just about getting on the pitch and playing though. This is not a job you casually turn up for at 9 to 5. The world's eyes are on you to perform week in and week out. You need a certain level of mental toughness to compete as a professional athlete

Maybe if you really don't want to retire, you can consider taking a few steps down where the football is more enjoyable and less criticised. Sure you earn a bit less in the lower leagues, but I would say your mental health is more important.
 
pocco said:
Damn, I used to argue on here that he wasn't a top class player etc, probably going a bit overboard with my analysis of his game and my criticism. If I'd have known all this I'd have just left him to enjoy the plaudits, not that my comments made any difference. Just goes to show how you never know what is going on with people and should act accordingly.

I hope he gets something going again and enjoys the rest of his career. Poch sounds a great guy too, I was wondering why he was saying he wants to check in on Dele and see what is going on with him.
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I believe there is space enough to keep the criticism exclusively to football ("today he played like shit" for instance) and just keep it at that.
Whatever happened in their lives is information we're not privy to and therefore should never venture to those areas.
Hopefully as a forum, we start to do that with every player (Remember how easy it was to trash on Pogba when a lot of things were happening in his private life).
As a forum, we really do need to keep it about football and nothing else
 
spiriticon said:
I'm sure there are mental health specialists at every football club these days to help footballers assess themselves.

There shouldn't be a stigma about retiring due to mental health. No one bats an eye at Tom Cleverley having to retire young due to physical injuries. Some jobs are just not for everyone.
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Of course there shouldn’t be a stigma. But I’m not going to make assumptions about your position, it’s incredibly easy to fake your way through life but actually be struggling. Why do you think so many young men kill themselves. They hide it from anyone until it’s too late. For me it took years and a lot of shit happening to finally seek help. When I did say something people were shocked because I could hide it so well. And I’m from a good background with there being minimal stigma in my circles if I was to reach out, but I didn’t. Thing is he got right to the top of the game, he got to a position not even 1% of footballers get to, was the job not for him? No, it was. There just obviously wasn’t the support / the ease of conversation as there is even now a few years later. People in every job, in every sector of life can have it and do have it. Are the jobs not for them?
 
macheda14 said:
Of course there shouldn’t be a stigma. But I’m not going to make assumptions about your position, it’s incredibly easy to fake your way through life but actually be struggling. Why do you think so many young men kill themselves. They hide it from anyone until it’s too late. For me it took years and a lot of shit happening to finally seek help. When I did say something people were shocked because I could hide it so well. And I’m from a good background with there being minimal stigma in my circles if I was to reach out, but I didn’t. Thing is he got right to the top of the game, he got to a position not even 1% of footballers get to, was the job not for him? No, it was. There just obviously wasn’t the support / the ease of conversation as there is even now a few years later. People in every job, in every sector of life can have it and do have it. Are the jobs not for them?
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For those who are secretly struggling mentally, absolutely not. It's trying to struggle on the path on your own that drives people to do crazy things. That's why we should always encourage people to speak up.

Maybe the job was right for Dele 10 years ago, but things change all the time in life, and there is no harm in saying "it's not for me anymore".
 
Abraxas said:
To be honest I don't think the Sancho parallel is quite right.

So now a player shouldn't come in for perfectly valid criticism around his performances just in case several years down the line he comes out with mental health issues and a backstory? It's nonsense. I don't think anyone is lining the street to throw tomatoes at Jadon. There isn't much vitriolic stuff aimed at him I can see, except maybe the odd individual. He gets a decent reception, he is backed by the manager and club and given opportunities - all the fans are doing is calling performances for what they are. That is absolutely allowed and valid and criticism does not have to be sugarcoated.

They're really two separate issues. What has happened to Alli is absolutely deplorable and I hope he gets help. That's really the important thing out of this.
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Yeah. No mention about mental health issue in Weghorst' thread.
 
Damien said:
For those who aren't going to take the time to watch the video before commenting, at the very least take (at most) five minutes out of your life to read the summary, and if, after all that you still have no empathy for him, heaven help your family if they have any personal problems. Access to money doesn't automatically sort out problems, if anything it makes things worse as seen by the "27 club"

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Fecking hell. Never really liked him on the pitch, but that means nothing when reading stuff like that. Maybe I even understand his madness more now. Get well Dele.
 
spiriticon said:
For those who are secretly struggling mentally, absolutely not. It's trying to struggle on the path on your own that drives people to do crazy things. That's why we should always encourage people to speak up.

Maybe the job was right for Dele 10 years ago, but things change all the time in life, and there is no harm in saying "it's not for me anymore".
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This is the point you’re not getting. It’s not so easy to just say ‘not for me’. He’d have to admit to his friends, family, colleagues, probably the world, why it was no longer for him. That pressure in and of itself just to admit something is wrong is immense. There’s no harm in it, but it’s just not as easy as you’re painting it to be.
 
Harrowing. Hope he goes from strength to strength. I loved him differentiating bravery from fearlessness.
 
macheda14 said:
This is the point you’re not getting. It’s not so easy to just say ‘not for me’. He’d have to admit to his friends, family, colleagues, probably the world, why it was no longer for him. That pressure in and of itself just to admit something is wrong is immense. There’s no harm in it, but it’s just not as easy as you’re painting it to be.
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I never said it was easy, but the people close to him shouldn't ignore it just because it is a difficult conversation. Ignoring it means leaving Dele to struggle with coping on their own, which means they're back to square one situation mentally. They should be getting him to prioritise his mental health over his career.

Of course, it is ideal if Dele can find another solution for his issues, but it looks really unlikely and Premier League football is a cut throat world. Gary Neville will talk about your mental issues one week, and then criticise your football again next week because sadly that is his job.
 
spiriticon said:
If a player is not mentally fit for professional football, they should stop and get help rather than carry on in an industry that is widely known to be heavy on criticism.

If they insist on carrying on, it can only end in tears.

If a player gets a physical injury and they have to retire, they retire. It's the same for the mental state.
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I agree with some of what you’re saying, but at the same time it seems football is not what the cause of the issue is

I think the problem is that dele would still have all the mental issues he has no matter what he does, be it retire and have the yes men hang around him, get a job as a builder etc.

the absolute first thought should be to get his mental health sorted and then let him go where he feels is best for him and him alone.

If he can get over the issues of the past and come out a stronger person, there’s no reason he can have a decent career still (if he can put up with the odd idiot from the stand shouting shite at him)

Best of luck to him and hope he can sort his head out and get over the demons that haunt him
 
We need an rvn said:
I agree with some of what you’re saying, but at the same time it seems football is not what the cause of the issue is

I think the problem is that dele would still have all the mental issues he has no matter what he does, be it retire and have the yes men hang around him, get a job as a builder etc.

the absolute first thought should be to get his mental health sorted and then let him go where he feels is best for him and him alone.

If he can get over the issues of the past and come out a stronger person, there’s no reason he can have a decent career still (if he can put up with the odd idiot from the stand shouting shite at him)

Best of luck to him and hope he can sort his head out and get over the demons that haunt him
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Retiring may not solve it completely, but I believe in doing everything possible to help yourself.

Top level football is really a terrible mental environment. There's an argument about removing punditry altogether, but that is for another thread. And it still wouldn't stop the tabloids gossiping much.
 
spiriticon said:
For those who are secretly struggling mentally, absolutely not. It's trying to struggle on the path on your own that drives people to do crazy things. That's why we should always encourage people to speak up.

Maybe the job was right for Dele 10 years ago, but things change all the time in life, and there is no harm in saying "it's not for me anymore".
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It wasn’t football that impacted his mental health but mental health that impacted his football. We shouldn’t encourage people to give up the job they love doing because they’re dealing with mental health but instead create an environment where the support structures are there for people to feel confident enough to be open about the challenges they may be facing.
 
Maureen-yo said:
It wasn’t football that impacted his mental health but mental health that impacted his football. We shouldn’t encourage people to give up the job they love doing because they’re dealing with mental health but instead create an environment where the support structures are there for people to feel confident enough to be open about the challenges they may be facing.
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Yes we should do that, they must be open about their challenges. But at the same time I genuinely don't think you can have in-depth mental support structures in competitive sport. The whole premise of sport is about being mentally and physically tougher than your opponents. If opponents smell even the slightest weakness on you, they will exploit it again and again to win.
 
GifLord said:
So let me get this straight. When he was at the top of his game scoring for fun and playing great football he had none of these issues. But then his form drops massively he can't pass the ball to save his life he suddenly has mental problems?
Everyone suffers one way or another but you don't go public with it do you when you're shit at your job ?
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It doesn't work like that though. I'm quite open now about having serious episodes of bipolar disorder from around 18 but I was only formally diagnosed in 2008.

You end up developing strategies of coping on the short term and often self medicating but it's ultimately going to break the system just like trying to drive a car with the brake and accelerator flat down.

I think Dele has been exceptionally brave, I remember how I felt talking like that in a very private setting ; for him that must be a big step.

I wish him every strength in his road back to health.
 
spiriticon said:
It's not just about getting on the pitch and playing though. This is not a job you casually turn up for at 9 to 5. The world's eyes are on you to perform week in and week out. You need a certain level of mental toughness to compete as a professional athlete

Maybe if you really don't want to retire, you can consider taking a few steps down where the football is more enjoyable and less criticised. Sure you earn a bit less in the lower leagues, but I would say your mental health is more important.
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He's was strong enough to make it as a professional footballer at the top level after everything he's been through so I think it's harsh to question his mental toughness, he should be applauded for admitting he's struggling and seeking help not being encouraged to retire because you think he's mentally weak
 
spiriticon said:
Yes we should do that, they must be open about their challenges. But at the same time I genuinely don't think you can have in-depth mental support structures in competitive sport. The whole premise of sport is about being mentally and physically tougher than your opponents. If opponents smell even the slightest weakness on you, they will exploit it again and again to win.
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I'm 50:50 on that, I can see your point but sports psychology has been employed to give players and teams an edge.

My concern is that he may now need medication potentially and I am fairly confident in saying that won't help someone whose fitness and body is their livelihood.
 
Edwards6 said:
He's was strong enough to make it as a professional footballer at the top level after everything he's been through so I think it's harsh to question his mental toughness, he should be applauded for admitting he's struggling and seeking help not being encouraged to retire because you think he's mentally weak
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Life changes man. It doesn't mean that you could cope with something 10 years ago, means that you can cope with it now. Nothing is ever static.

If he wants to continue, the criticism from fans and pundits will also continue, opponents will continue to rib him on the pitch.

If he feels he is tough enough to cope with all of it, then fair play, carry on. I just feel he's not in the best environment is all.
 
spiriticon said:
I never said it was easy, but the people close to him shouldn't ignore it just because it is a difficult conversation. Ignoring it means leaving Dele to struggle with coping on their own, which means they're back to square one situation mentally. They should be getting him to prioritise his mental health over his career.

Of course, it is ideal if Dele can find another solution for his issues, but it looks really unlikely and Premier League football is a cut throat world. Gary Neville will talk about your mental issues one week, and then criticise your football again next week because sadly that is his job.
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I’m just going to ask if you’ve actually watched the interview. I only just have. He quite literally speaks about how he couldn’t open up to anyone. His family tried and he wouldn’t. They didn’t ignore it but ‘he wouldn’t open up because he wanted to deal with it on his own’. They did try and prioritise it. Again speaking from experience when I did open up to a most people they were shocked, but a very small few who did often ask and prod if I was ok weren’t. When I told them they were like yeh we knew we spoke about it amongst ourselves but I would brush it off and laugh. Always the happiest guy in the group always cracking jokes. The sad clown cliche.

I mean you’ve quite literally just said you don’t think you can have in depth mental health support structures. So what did he have.
 
macheda14 said:
I’m just going to ask if you’ve actually watched the interview. I only just have. He quite literally speaks about how he couldn’t open up to anyone. His family tried and he wouldn’t. They didn’t ignore it but ‘he wouldn’t open up because he wanted to deal with it on his own’. They did try and prioritise it. Again speaking from experience when I did open up to a most people they were shocked, but a very small few who did often ask and prod if I was ok weren’t. When I told them they were like yeh we knew we spoke about it amongst ourselves but I would brush it off and laugh. Always the happiest guy in the group always cracking jokes. The sad clown cliche.

I mean you’ve quite literally just said you don’t think you can have in depth mental health support structures. So what did he have.
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I think my basic point is that top level football is a terrible place for people with mental health issues and it's not going to get better for him if he stays in it. I know the difficulties of getting someone to open up, but I mean, if he's speaking to Gary Neville it's probably a start.
 
Just watched it, and it's a really good watch. Dele is clearly a smart young man who has been through a lot. I think a lot of footballers needed him to tell his story like this, he spoke bravely and intelligently.

It will be interesting to see what comes out of this, both in terms of his career and discussions about the mental health of young super talents.
 
Edwards6 said:
Or maybe his mental health problems caused the dip in form. Just because he was dealing with his trauma before it doesn't mean that will always be the case it's an ongoing battle. It's horrific what he went through as a child and I applaud him for being brave enough to speak out about it.
Severe lack of empathy if you don't feel for him after that interview
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I think, well in my personal experience, what happened was I was diverting so much energy into corralling the mania from bipolar spilling out to my work life, family, girlfriend.

For someone else, they wouldn't need to use that energy on managing bipolar symptoms but you can only go on for so long.
 
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