Declan Rice

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Inigo Montoya said:
He’s very disciplined and tends to cover the back four really well. He’s much more your Makalele than anything else. Think that’s what Potter demands of him and he doesn’t have a rush of blood and charges out of position like Rice tends to. If you want a DM to sit and let your flair box to box types to do their stuff, he’s that player
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In that case we need him to have a good game when Brighton come to Old Trafford in April but in a losing cause, maybe then he would actually make our board sit up and take notice of him properly before a PL rival does first.
 
I think you trying to get Kante from Chelsea would give you better value for money.

Played as an outright DM, he was brilliant for us. He’s never hit those nights really since his first two seasons in the Premier League, as Chelsea tried to change his game.
 
cyberman said:
But he just isnt a DM. Rice is a DM. Fabinho covers too much ground to be a DM. That entire midfield takes turns pressing, sitting back etc. None of them are DMs. Fabinho is a lot closer to Scott than he is to the CB shadow Declan Rice.
Wait until tonight and see where Rice ends up on the pitch and then watch Liverpools CL game mid week when Fabinho dominated every blade of grass.
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Fabinho is a CDM, and played like one in a Klopp system last season, with a lot of front foot pressing and running.
 
Sleigh said:
I think you trying to get Kante from Chelsea would give you better value for money.

Played as an outright DM, he was brilliant for us. He’s never hit those nights really since his first two seasons in the Premier League, as Chelsea tried to change his game.
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You are Leicester City Supporter and who must have watched Kante play regularly for your team and Still believe he played outright DM for you I am confused to be honest , Kante has never been Outright DM for any team albeit a successful one he has always been a CM who happens to be Excellent at defensive side of the game.
 
Not a great night to judge him on, when he's got so much support around him.

I like him, but he isn't what we need I don't think, unless Ole would move away from his preferred double pivot as a result. One of our biggest issues is breaking teams down, and I don't see how swapping out McTominay or Fred for Rice helps us do that.
 
Hes a good player but hes not an upgrade on anybody we currently have in our starting lineup.
 
He seems more calm on the ball than Fred and McTominay. And he can drive with the ball forward. I like him. But as other mention, he's not worth the rumored fee.

I think we need someone who has great passing range, vision, is two-footed and is calm as hell under pressure. Only Pogba provides that for us apart from Bruno.
 
Kostov said:
Fabinho is a CDM, and played like one in a Klopp system last season, with a lot of front foot pressing and running.
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I juat dont see it.


Thats a heat map of a 10 against one of the best attacks in the league. Comparing that to Rice is ridiculous
 
I just dont get it with him and cant see what all the fuss is about. Not a bad player, but wouldnt make us any better and he'd get slated on here for his cautious approach. If we do bring in a CM in the summer (i dont think we will) it needs to be one who plays further forward and not another sitter.
 
M Bison said:
I just dont get it with him and cant see what all the fuss is about. Not a bad player, but wouldnt make us any better and he'd get slated on here for his cautious approach. If we do bring in a CM in the summer (i dont think we will) it needs to be one who plays further forward and not another sitter.
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I think he'd be a massive upgrade on Matic and that's what people are clamouring for. Give's more rotation options for Fred and McTomminay then. I don't think we're in for Rice though. We need attacking players.
 
M Bison said:
I just dont get it with him and cant see what all the fuss is about. Not a bad player, but wouldnt make us any better and he'd get slated on here for his cautious approach. If we do bring in a CM in the summer (i dont think we will) it needs to be one who plays further forward and not another sitter.
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People still get impressed with a brave lad flying into tackles.

It doesn't matter that he did nothing else all game apart from a few simple interceptions in front of a parked bus.

The England internationals coming up will be a good way to judge just how far he's come along. Last time he looked lost.
 
cyberman said:
I juat dont see it.


Thats a heat map of a 10 against one of the best attacks in the league. Comparing that to Rice is ridiculous
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Regardless of his heat map in a match against Spurs, Fabinho is a player that played as a CDM last season, CB mostly this season, and I am not sure if that is this last match against Spurs? He plays in a different game plan and is obviously not the same like Rice, but I think Rice can play the Fabinho's role of last season, and is not as ridiculous as you claim. To me claiming Fabinho is not a CDM is strange, the best Liverpool team of last season was with Fabinho playing as a CDM with Wijnaldum and Henderson as B2B. I'd say his role as a CDM, was instrumental in their success.
 
I like Rice as a player, but adding another defensive minded midfielder who isn't creative will not be happening this summer.

The price will be so high, I would say he will be going nowhere.
 
Another steady, unspectacular performance. Got absolutely destroyed by Greenwood at one point. I'm really not seeing it.
 
Kostov said:
Some also said the same for Shaw couple of years ago. Rice is not worth the 80m pounds quoted, but the guy is already a very very good CDM, who will only get better.
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Shaw was considered the best LB in the league when we signed him.
 
Guys we really don’t needs this guy, we have enough decent DCM’s in McTom and Fred, will need a backup soon for Matic, but what we really need is a creative Midfielder, proper box to box who is a step above McTom, someone with skill, quick feet and vision as well as touch of rough play
 
I think he’s a good player but I haven’t really seen anything from him that makes me think at some point he’s going to be one of the best in his position. He’s really probably a 30-40 mil player at most and if you could get him for that fee then worth the gamble. However not sure he’d be a massive improvement over Fred or McT.

Dont really have any strong feelings over it, Its a position we need and there doesn’t seem to be a wealth of talent out there in his position.
 
Kostov said:
Some also said the same for Shaw couple of years ago.
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That's utterly nonsensical; Shaw was the best LB around when we signed him, and before his leg break looked like the best LB in the World.

As for Rice, I was actually impressed yesterday. The price is the sticking point still, it's utterly outrageous. At a 40-45m chance, he'd be worth the punt, but at double that, you'd have to be completely bonkers to sanction it.
 
Kostov said:
Regardless of his heat map in a match against Spurs, Fabinho is a player that played as a CDM last season, CB mostly this season, and I am not sure if that is this last match against Spurs? He plays in a different game plan and is obviously not the same like Rice, but I think Rice can play the Fabinho's role of last season, and is not as ridiculous as you claim. To me claiming Fabinho is not a CDM is strange, the best Liverpool team of last season was with Fabinho playing as a CDM with Wijnaldum and Henderson as B2B. I'd say his role as a CDM, was instrumental in their success.
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Their midfield pays too high to have a CDM. Its almost as if they all took turns, hence that randon heat map. He pushes too high to be a CDM, or at least a CDM that we claim Rice is who will sit in midfield.
We have seen Rice try and play a more progressive CDM position for England and struggle. As time goes on it looks as if hes more comfortable being a CB shadow, which is ok but pretending its a player teams need to be successful isnt true at all.
 
Kostov said:
Some also said the same for Shaw couple of years ago. Rice is not worth the 80m pounds quoted, but the guy is already a very very good CDM, who will only get better.
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True, but age only protects you for a certain amount of time until you need to show proof of talent - something I've never heard or seen from Rice. Shaw was a good scouted purchase back in 20xx and he underperformed/was injured for a while and now is in his bloom.

But I should have said for £80m range people are talking about, he shows nothing but age. At a more realistic £40-50m, I think it would be a good signing, but we need to dump a lot of midfielders for it to make sense: Fred, McT, Jones, Matic, Mata, Lingard (not all, but some) and then decide how we want to build the midfield. I'd love to see a mobile DMF (a mix of McT and Fred, but with improved passing, or a player like Kante, etc) with Pogba. But I feel Rice is technically limited in comparison to his DMF peers on the continent and we'd find the same issues we current have with McFred

I've taken a little more interest in the Irons as they're local to me, and what I've seen of Rice is that he has talent yes, age is on his side, but paying £80m+ for something that we haven't even had a glance of yet is not wise. Unfortunately as usual we need to look to European or African players for that type of player who would have the total skillset and leaner price
 
Seriously there's very little between him and McTominay

Rice might be slightly better defensively but McTominay is a far bigger goal threat and for us we need someone who isn't just limited to one role
 
ivaldo said:
Another steady, unspectacular performance. Got absolutely destroyed by Greenwood at one point. I'm really not seeing it.
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Pretty much. He also kicked it out for a throw in trying to cross it in, which sealed a very dull performance from him.

He's got his strengths, but every time I watch him, he just shows me he has the characteristics to be an elite CB, not a DM. There's no way we couldn't find someone to do what he does in midfield, for a fraction of the price, around Europe.
 
charlenefan said:
Seriously there's very little between him and McTominay

Rice might be slightly better defensively but McTominay is a far bigger goal threat and for us we need someone who isn't just limited to one role
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I disagree with this.

Ideally we need to replace Matic with a pure ball winning CDM. This is where someone like Rice fits in.

Then, I like both Fred & Mctomminay but I feel like they kind of do the same things as two box to box energetic midfielders and once we are more stable towards turning back to the top clubs in england - we should replace one of these box to box players for a deep lying playmaker. I think this will be Fred being replaced for a DLP. The reason this isnt happening now is because we currently have Pogba who can help our build up play and creativity from deep almost like a DLP.

Having a ball winning midfielder, a deep lying playmaker and a defensively capable box to box midfielder like Mctomminay is a perfect balance of a deeper midfield & this is what I expect to happen in the future.
 
charlenefan said:
Seriously there's very little between him and McTominay

Rice might be slightly better defensively but McTominay is a far bigger goal threat and for us we need someone who isn't just limited to one role
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I agree. He's not a player who'd make a difference
 
Bebestation said:
I disagree with this.

Ideally we need to replace Matic with a pure ball winning CDM. This is where someone like Rice fits in.

Then, I like both Fred & Mctomminay but I feel like they kind of do the same things as two box to box energetic midfielders and once we are more stable towards turning back to the top clubs in england - we should replace one of these box to box players for a deep lying playmaker. I think this will be Fred being replaced for a DLP. The reason this isnt happening now is because we currently have Pogba who can help our build up play and creativity from deep almost like a DLP.

Having a ball winning midfielder, a deep lying playmaker and a defensively capable box to box midfielder like Mctomminay is a perfect balance of a deeper midfield & this is what I expect to happen in the future.
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we've never played with a DM nor should we
 
I think Rice is a very good player but not worth the money he is currently being talked about (£80m+). I think at £40m, £50m at a push he may be a good buy.
 
cyberman said:
Their midfield pays too high to have a CDM. Its almost as if they all took turns, hence that randon heat map. He pushes too high to be a CDM, or at least a CDM that we claim Rice is who will sit in midfield.
We have seen Rice try and play a more progressive CDM position for England and struggle. As time goes on it looks as if hes more comfortable being a CB shadow, which is ok but pretending its a player teams need to be successful isnt true at all.
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I disagree, take a look at Busquets for example, I am sure that if you look at his heat map you will find him playing in the opposition's half 99% of the time, simply because through out his career he's played in a dominant possession based team who is on the ball constantly and attacking, that doesn't mean he is not the CDM of that team.

To be honest I've not seen Rice play for England regularly, but he is not a progressive CDM in the mould of Carrick or Busquets and never will be, therefor I do not expect him to perform in that role. Rice can play as the anchor behind Pogba and maybe a injury free consistent McT, or even better Bruno who would play a bit more deep. Imo that might work nicely.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
That's utterly nonsensical; Shaw was the best LB around when we signed him, and before his leg break looked like the best LB in the World.

As for Rice, I was actually impressed yesterday. The price is the sticking point still, it's utterly outrageous. At a 40-45m chance, he'd be worth the punt, but at double that, you'd have to be completely bonkers to sanction it.
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No I mean there were posters on here claiming that Shaw was never talented, he was only young and english therfor why we bought him. I am not also saying Rice is as talented, but the kid is playing first team CDM in a PL team, how many seasons in a row? He is clearly talented, but of course not worth 80m pounds.
 
Bebestation said:
I disagree with this.

Ideally we need to replace Matic with a pure ball winning CDM. This is where someone like Rice fits in.

Then, I like both Fred & Mctomminay but I feel like they kind of do the same things as two box to box energetic midfielders and once we are more stable towards turning back to the top clubs in england - we should replace one of these box to box players for a deep lying playmaker. I think this will be Fred being replaced for a DLP. The reason this isnt happening now is because we currently have Pogba who can help our build up play and creativity from deep almost like a DLP.

Having a ball winning midfielder, a deep lying playmaker and a defensively capable box to box midfielder like Mctomminay is a perfect balance of a deeper midfield & this is what I expect to happen in the future.
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This is the buy Declan Rice theory and it might be right but there are a few question marks about its validity.

1, All the other players we have tried to play along side Pogba in center midfield have struggled badly to cover the back four. It might be that Fred, McT and Matic are all so bad at it that getting in Rice proves to be the solution . You have to say though that there is also a good chance that the job of covering the space for Pogba just isn't possible.

2, Pogba is probably leaving in the summer, so spending 80+ million pounds right now on a player to get the best out of the 90 million pound player who is likely/wants to bugger off would seem to be a tad too late.
 
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