Declan Rice

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I don't think anything more than £40m would be justified. He is a competent CDM, nothing special.

I have watched him alot recently and he doesn't seem to cover ground as much as I would like our CDM to.

I would like someone like a Ndidi or Kante who will really be annoying, Rice is more in the Matic mould where he will get behind the ball and position himself instead of aggressively trying to get the ball.
 
GoldTrafford99 said:
Hold on, you're trying to debate how a good a footballer is by asking me to look at one game?

Wow. Talk about narrow-minded.

And, eh.. by the way, Rice has already achieved more than Robson at the exact same age... More Top Division appearances. More goals. More England caps.

But don't let comparing two players at the same age when one player has finished his career spin your head too much.
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:lol: How old are you? Did you ever see Robson play? I am 4 years younger than him and saw him live quite a few times. Tackle, pass, score goals, pull a team up by the scruff of their neck, a proper leader of men. Did all this on mud piles not on the billiard tables of today. Got kicked from pillar to post where they just got on with it, not like they roll the floor if you blow on them today. There is no comparison at all. For me Robson was Utd in the 80s. Pity he wasn't 5 years younger and could have won more trophies at Utd .
 
3KDré said:
We have tried, the coaches say they seem him as similar to Matic. He hides from the ball whenever he plays there so I think we have let him play his natural box to box role.
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ahhh cheers, that's fair enough then
 
MadDogg said:
Except didn't somebody then point out that that simply wasn't true, and the original poster (you) completely ignored that point?

Rice: 123 league appearances, 4 goals.
Robson: 118 league appearances, 21 goals.

These stats were taken from the end of the season so Rice has 12 games to score 18 goals to make your claim true. He does have more appearances, but Robson was close despite having broken his leg twice and broken his ankle by the same age.
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Yeah but making things up is more fun. When it's pointed out that you're wrong, you can just ignore it and continue to make things up.
 
I’d take him if we could do some sort of deal involving Lingard but wouldn’t spend more than £40m on him, especially as we have more pressing issues with the squad that need addressing first.
 
Drainy said:
Gaping Rice shaped hole next to McTominay today
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Incredibly harsh. Our back 4 (2 CBs in particular) were very well protected today. The midfield did a great job defensively.
 
Drainy said:
Fred was bypassed easily for me, and losing the ball when he had it.
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A lot of players get bypassed when City have so many capable players and manipulate space extremely well. He and McTominay engage in individual battles, then have to make recovery sprints and runs to get back into a shape and support the defensive effort. Yes he has loose touches and passes, but he always active and looking to transition up the pitch.
 
Although I want us to sign Rice and come out often saying it I don’t think he was needed today, my want for Rice is so we can play Fernandes and Pogba together against low block teams parking the bus against us and we basically play with a front five whilst Rice simply covers all the ground defensively and shields the back four, playing Rice alongside either McTominay or Fred is pointless as it wouldn’t help us creatively which is often our problem.
 
davidmichael said:
Although I want us to sign Rice and come out often saying it I don’t think he was needed today, my want for Rice is so we can play Fernandes and Pogba together against low block teams parking the bus against us and we basically play with a front five whilst Rice simply covers all the ground defensively and shields the back four, playing Rice alongside either McTominay or Fred is pointless as it wouldn’t help us creatively which is often our problem.
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Yeah he would definitely be beneficial in helping to protect the back four while those two try to unlock a packed defence, however when Moyes starts throwing figures like £100m for him it's worrying to say the least
 
croadyman said:
Yeah he would definitely be beneficial in helping to protect the back four while those two try to unlock a packed defence, however when Moyes starts throwing figures like £100m for him it's worrying to say the least
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Moyes can throw whatever figures he wants around as no one is going for £100 million or over in the next couple of years outside of Haaland or Mbappe who are most likely the two most coveted players in world football, I think the West Ham board would seriously look at anything £50 million and above especially with Lingard involved in the deal.
 
davidmichael said:
Although I want us to sign Rice and come out often saying it I don’t think he was needed today, my want for Rice is so we can play Fernandes and Pogba together against low block teams parking the bus against us and we basically play with a front five whilst Rice simply covers all the ground defensively and shields the back four, playing Rice alongside either McTominay or Fred is pointless as it wouldn’t help us creatively which is often our problem.
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Is he really that much better than McTominay in doing that job? Considering we also need a striker, RW and CB. I know that McTominay is more box to box but positional sense can be thought by master Carrick.
 
He’ll be so expensive that no one would buy him. But he can’t stay at WH for his entire career. So somethings got to give. Maybe he has to run down his contract.
 
Cathy Ferguson said:
Is he really that much better than McTominay in doing that job? Considering we also need a striker, RW and CB. I know that McTominay is more box to box but positional sense can be thought by master Carrick.
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The fact that McTominay is NOT a defensive midfielder in any way whatsoever leads to the opinion that yes Rice is a lot better than McTominay in that role, if McTominay showed any kind of potential in that role then he’d have been used as such but instead we play McTominay AND Fred together as together it’s as close as we get to a balance.

The best way to describe McTominay is as a box to box midfielder with ball winning abilities but as shown he’s becoming a more complete midfielder as he’s added goals to his game and a desire to get into the opposition box, he’s never going to be someone who covers all the defensive ground so others can do their thing further forward nor sit in front of the defence and shield it.

The only person we have who does that is Matic and unfortunately Matic’s legs have gone so he can’t do that job on a basis of multiple games on the spin which is why he’s used sparingly and I’ll reiterate is why we have to use McTominay and Fred together, Rice basically brings what Matic does but a younger version with bundles of stamina and a fantastic fitness record that simply does the dirty work which will allow Fernandes and if we keep him Pogba to do their thing and we’d hopefully be able to break down low block opposition by playing a front five and back five.
 
davidmichael said:
The fact that McTominay is NOT a defensive midfielder in any way whatsoever leads to the opinion that yes Rice is a lot better than McTominay in that role, if McTominay showed any kind of potential in that role then he’d have been used as such but instead we play McTominay AND Fred together as together it’s as close as we get to a balance.

The best way to describe McTominay is as a box to box midfielder with ball winning abilities but as shown he’s becoming a more complete midfielder as he’s added goals to his game and a desire to get into the opposition box, he’s never going to be someone who covers all the defensive ground so others can do their thing further forward nor sit in front of the defence and shield it.

The only person we have who does that is Matic and unfortunately Matic’s legs have gone so he can’t do that job on a basis of multiple games on the spin which is why he’s used sparingly and I’ll reiterate is why we have to use McTominay and Fred together, Rice basically brings what Matic does but a younger version with bundles of stamina and a fantastic fitness record that simply does the dirty work which will allow Fernandes and if we keep him Pogba to do their thing and we’d hopefully be able to break down low block opposition by playing a front five and back five.
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All fair points.
 
davidmichael said:
The fact that McTominay is NOT a defensive midfielder in any way whatsoever leads to the opinion that yes Rice is a lot better than McTominay in that role, if McTominay showed any kind of potential in that role then he’d have been used as such but instead we play McTominay AND Fred together as together it’s as close as we get to a balance.

The best way to describe McTominay is as a box to box midfielder with ball winning abilities but as shown he’s becoming a more complete midfielder as he’s added goals to his game and a desire to get into the opposition box, he’s never going to be someone who covers all the defensive ground so others can do their thing further forward nor sit in front of the defence and shield it.

The only person we have who does that is Matic and unfortunately Matic’s legs have gone so he can’t do that job on a basis of multiple games on the spin which is why he’s used sparingly and I’ll reiterate is why we have to use McTominay and Fred together, Rice basically brings what Matic does but a younger version with bundles of stamina and a fantastic fitness record that simply does the dirty work which will allow Fernandes and if we keep him Pogba to do their thing and we’d hopefully be able to break down low block opposition by playing a front five and back five.
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We dont have to play with a DM though. Liverpool dominated last season without 1
 
cyberman said:
We dont have to play with a DM though. Liverpool dominated last season without 1
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Fabinho is DM and Henderson may not be rated by United fans but he is more than adequate in that role atleast quite better than our options as sole anchor.
 
gajender said:
Fabinho is DM and Henderson may not be rated by United fans but he is more than adequate in that role atleast quite better than our options as sole anchor.
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Fabinho is more box to box and presses really high. He isnt a DM. Feck me Ive heard enough about the talents of Fabinho and Henderson over the last 4 months from the media to know that!
If Fabinho isnt a DM then neither is Scott.
 
cyberman said:
Fabinho is more box to box and presses really high. He isnt a DM. Feck me Ive heard enough about the talents of Fabinho and Henderson over the last 4 months from the media to know that!
If Fabinho isnt a DM then neither is Scott.
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Fabinho is excellent DM who has good positional awareness and decent passing range unlike Mctominay who is erratic in his passing while not so good in positional discipline.
Liverpool's team played quite a high line last season and they pressed as a team and so did Fabinho .
 
gajender said:
Fabinho is excellent DM who has good positional awareness and decent passing range unlike Mctominay who is erratic in his passing while not so good in positional discipline.
Liverpool's team played quite a high line last season and they pressed as a team and so did Fabinho .
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But he just isnt a DM. Rice is a DM. Fabinho covers too much ground to be a DM. That entire midfield takes turns pressing, sitting back etc. None of them are DMs. Fabinho is a lot closer to Scott than he is to the CB shadow Declan Rice.
Wait until tonight and see where Rice ends up on the pitch and then watch Liverpools CL game mid week when Fabinho dominated every blade of grass.
 
I wonder if he can actually impress me today to justify the hype on here. Will happily eat humble pie, but he's been nothing special everytime he's played us.
 
Good Prem player to compliment your World Class one. He's for me is Scott in a West Ham shirt but Scott will score more goals.....
 
Litch said:
Good Prem player to compliment your World Class one. He's for me is Scott in a West Ham shirt but Scott will score more goals.....
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Isn't that some serious overrating of McTominay? I mean, nobody except for United fans are really seeing a great player watching him, United fans know his story, like his character, whatsoever but if nobody else is raving that at least indicates something. We could also use the Fred-Evaluation-Method from his Performances thread: where is McTominay really good at?
His passing is solid to good mostly not very adventurous.
His shooting seems fine to very good occasionally but these occasions are rare.
His dribbling is alright some times.
His 1st touch is ok.
His workrate is good to very good but not on the same level of Kante or Fred.
His defensive positioning is so and so, mostly ok.

You get the picture. I have no intention at all in suggesting he is an issue for us. He is a very valuable to player to have but as of now he nothing more than that. Sure - if somebody has the right attitude to become more than that it is Scott but right now, he isn't there yet. He being asked to play closer to goal makes me chuckle once in a while. His 4 goals in the PL are scored against Leeds in the 2nd and 3rd minute (when Leeds was setup perfectly to be hurt by us). He scored in the 9:0 against So'ton and a header after a set piece against Everton. So its not like he is buzzing or something. I think, there will always be a spot in the squad for him, but I have no idea at all, which position he could nail down.

I think Rice is overrated a tad as well but at least not only by United fans.
 
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Judas said:
Personally I hope he has an absolute stinker today!
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Still think Bissouma is a better fit for us. Interesting Potter saying to Brighton fans “ enjoy him while you can, he’s destined for a Champions league club
 
Ali Dia said:
They have Caciedo to come in for him now too. I’m sure they’ll be looking to cash in and reinvest this summer. Interesting player
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He’s going to take time from the evidence in our U23 game against Brighton the other day.
Bissouma may want a bigger challenge and Potter isn’t going to stand in his way. I just wonder what he’ll fetch?
 
NZT-One said:
Isn't that some serious overrating of McTominay? I mean, nobody except for United fans are really seeing a great player watching him, United fans know his story, like his character, whatsoever but if nobody else is raving that at least indicates something. We could also use the Fred-Evaluation-Method from his Performances thread: where is McTominay really good at?
His passing is solid to good mostly not very adventurous.
His shooting seems fine to very good occasionally but these occasions are rare.
His dribbling is alright some times.
His 1st touch is ok.
His workrate is good to very good but not on the same level of Kante or Fred.
His defensive positioning is so and so, mostly ok.

You get the picture. I have no intention at all in suggesting he is an issue for us. He is a very valuable to player to have but as of now he nothing more than that. Sure - if somebody has the right attitude to become more than that it is Scott but right now, he isn't there yet. He being asked to play closer to goal makes me chuckle once in a while. His 4 goals in the PL are scored against Leeds in the 2nd and 3rd minute (when Leeds was setup perfectly to be hurt by us). He scored in the 9:0 against So'ton and a header after a set piece against Everton. So its not like he is buzzing or something. I think, there will always be a spot in the squad for him, but I have no idea at all, which position he could nail down.

I think Rice is overrated a tad as well but at least not only by United fans.
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McTíominay really is a player who would easily slot in a championship team and noone would notice. same way he's so average when he plays for scotland, even though a little out of posisiton but in the end if he was even so god in his primary position he would certainly start there for Scotland. Obviously people get carried away by few of frankly nice goal contributions but apart that McTominay should really not be anywhere near the first team. The worst passing midfielder of the football in the club in 20 years I remember, very questionable defensive contribution too but I guess for some people it's enough when he looks strong and tall and automatically forget about his shocking positioning and inability to sense the danger.

In many ways Rice would be an upgrade but really not worth 80 million or even 60 million, however I think should be looking at a player of similar profile. Need a strong runner and strong ball winner with better quality on the ball though.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
He’s going to take time from the evidence in our U23 game against Brighton the other day.
Bissouma may want a bigger challenge and Potter isn’t going to stand in his way. I just wonder what he’ll fetch?
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oh did he play? I didn’t catch the game. It’ll be very interesting to see how he does next season if he doesn’t go out on loan. He looked the bees knees from the tiny bits I could see and the scout reports coming from South America. Bissouma or any other valuable PL starter is probably going to be around the same price as AWB. 40-50 million which is pretty crazy but it could still be a tidy investment if he’s the right player. I reckon Rice and Camavinga would be about the same price at this stage with crazy PL prices...
 
NZT-One said:
Isn't that some serious overrating of McTominay? I mean, nobody except for United fans are really seeing a great player watching him, United fans know his story, like his character, whatsoever but if nobody else is raving that at least indicates something. We could also use the Fred-Evaluation-Method from his Performances thread: where is McTominay really good at?
His passing is solid to good mostly not very adventurous.
His shooting seems fine to very good occasionally but these occasions are rare.
His dribbling is alright some times.
His 1st touch is ok.
His workrate is good to very good but not on the same level of Kante or Fred.
His defensive positioning is so and so, mostly ok.

You get the picture. I have no intention at all in suggesting he is an issue for us. He is a very valuable to player to have but as of now he nothing more than that. Sure - if somebody has the right attitude to become more than that it is Scott but right now, he isn't there yet. He being asked to play closer to goal makes me chuckle once in a while. His 4 goals in the PL are scored against Leeds in the 2nd and 3rd minute (when Leeds was setup perfectly to be hurt by us). He scored in the 9:0 against So'ton and a header after a set piece against Everton. So its not like he is buzzing or something. I think, there will always be a spot in the squad for him, but I have no idea at all, which position he could nail down.

I think Rice is overrated a tad as well but at least not only by United fans.
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Maybe but think we tend to dumb down our players yet put other teams players on a pedestal. I think people also don't take into count the weight of the Utd shirt. Like most of our signings, they look worse for us than the teams they came from...
 
Inigo Montoya said:
Still think Bissouma is a better fit for us. Interesting Potter saying to Brighton fans “ enjoy him while you can, he’s destined for a Champions league club
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I’ve heard good things about Bissouma but never watched him for a full 90 minutes, would he be classed as a pure out and out defensive midfielder though ? Or would he be classed as more like Fred as that’s what I’ve heard from people talking about him.

I think any manager would say that their best player is destined for a Champions League club as they wouldn't want to sell themselves short for a transfer fee, not sure on Caciedo replacing him though as I watched highlights of the under 23’s the other day and I’m happy we didn’t bother signing him.
 
davidmichael said:
I’ve heard good things about Bissouma but never watched him for a full 90 minutes, would he be classed as a pure out and out defensive midfielder though ? Or would he be classed as more like Fred as that’s what I’ve heard from people talking about him.

I think any manager would say that their best player is destined for a Champions League club as they wouldn't want to sell themselves short for a transfer fee, not sure on Caciedo replacing him though as I watched highlights of the under 23’s the other day and I’m happy we didn’t bother signing him.
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He’s very disciplined and tends to cover the back four really well. He’s much more your Makalele than anything else. Think that’s what Potter demands of him and he doesn’t have a rush of blood and charges out of position like Rice tends to. If you want a DM to sit and let your flair box to box types to do their stuff, he’s that player
 
Inigo Montoya said:
He’s very disciplined and tends to cover the back four really well. He’s much more your Makalele than anything else. Think that’s what Potter demands of him and he doesn’t have a rush of blood and charges out of position like Rice tends to. If you want a DM to sit and let your flair box to box types to do their stuff, he’s that player
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That’s exactly the type of player that I believe we need as teams know if they shut Fernandes down we struggle creating, a pure defensive midfielder allows us to play Fernandes and Pogba with the front three and break low block teams down.
 
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