Declan Rice

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ash_86 said:
Controray to general tone here , i thought he had a excellent game. Sheilded their back four excellently and his offensive game has improved quite a lot. He is Matic regen and still has time in his side to improve his offensive input which i think will happen when he moves to a better club. If Lingard can be used as a make weight , I'm fine with 50m + lingard.
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I'm the most excited to see what Carrick can do with Declan Rice.

The amount of attacking players the england national team has (Sancho, Rashford, Grealish Mount, Foden, Kane, Sterling, TAA, Shaw, Chilwell and so many more) it feels like Rice developing is what will really make the team balance out.

If he is deemed good enough for us by the manager then his development is what really excites me. The guys is only 21 and has a lot of defensive ability with the ability to improve things so much through a career of 10 years or more
 
I thought he had very good game, he was very good defensively breaking up lot of attacks and then passed the ball well.
 
Bebestation said:
I'm the most excited to see what Carrick can do with Declan Rice.

The amount of attacking players the england national team has (Sancho, Rashford, Grealish Mount, Foden, Kane, Sterling, TAA, Shaw, Chilwell and so many more) it feels like Rice developing is what will really make the team balance out.

If he is deemed good enough for us by the manager then his development is what really excites me. The guys is only 21 and has a lot of defensive ability with the ability to improve things so much through a career of 10 years or more
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Yes, it will be a very very good signing. Some might bat an eye if it happens but i think he would make alot of heads turn with how good he can play the DM role. He'd be perfect for us and i do like to see Carrick's influence on him. I'm not sure if we will get him this summer though, as focus seems to be on CB and RW. It might come down to how good Diallo integrates with the squad , then we can prioritize DM over RW if that happens.

I do agree , England is blessed with good stream of talented youngsters but i do think England needs a better manager to bring out the best out of these youngsters.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
I bet all of you lot that are clearly ignoring his limitations, were also clambering for AWB when he was at Palace.
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And he is a good player to alot of us.

Bet alot of our fans were saying that Shaw is limited and crying out for Reguilon during this transfer window when the guy is average......
 
Bebestation said:
And he is a good player to alot of us.

Bet alot of our fans were saying that Shaw is limited and crying out for Reguilon during this transfer window when the guy is average......
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I certainly wasn’t.

As for AWB, last night was another example of how limited he makes this side. Excellent at what he does but we’ll almost certainly need a new RB who is better on the ball at some point.
I’ve really tried to get behind AWB because he’s got a great attitude and he’s so good 1-on-1, but it’s becoming glaringly obvious that he’s a real issue for us.
It was an incredible sum of money for a player with such glaring weaknesses.
 
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Regulus Arcturus Black said:
I certainly wasn’t.

As for AWB, last night was another example of how limited he makes this side. Excellent at what he does but we’ll almost certainly need a new RB who is better on the ball at some point.
I’ve really tried to get behind AWB because he’s got a great attitude and he’s so good 1-on-1, but it’s becoming glaringly obvious that he’s a real issue for us.
It was an incredible sum of money for a player with such glaring weaknesses.
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AWB is the least of our worries and absolutely fine. Rice would do just as good if not even better in a United shirt.
 
Limited player, plus I don't want to wait for him to develop. We've got McTominay for that. What we need is a ready made central midfielder who can improve us massively and immediately.
 
For those who like Rice as a player for us, could you really see him being a champions league level player?

He does the defensive stuff well but for me he’s lacking big time in technical areas and it would show on the biggest stage.

I think our sights should definitely be set higher. We need someone who is excellent on the ball along with being good defensively.
 
sport2793 said:
Matic doesn't have the legs whereas Rice does. Apart from the heavy touch I thought Rice controlled the game from a DM perspective. He has the physicality plus the passing ability. If you pair Rice with McTominay or Fred and Upamecano with Maguire, that should fix the defence.
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He might have the legs over a 32/33 year old Matic but he doesn't have the ability to justify the stupid money West Ham would expect.

What I'm saying is I don't see the fuss. He's not in the same class as a Fabinho for example. I'd like a more technical player.
 
buckooo1978 said:
He might have the legs over a 32/33 year old Matic but he doesn't have the ability to justify the stupid money West Ham would expect.

What I'm saying is I don't see the fuss. He's not in the same class as a Fabinho for example. I'd like a more technical player.
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Having the legs over someone who's been notoriously quite slow for their whole career is hardly a selling point as well.
 
Wayne's World said:
We already bought an 80 million fridge in Maguire so hope United have more sense then to go and buy another fridge
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If you by fridge mean slow, cumbersome and turning circle of an oil tanker, you'd be dead wrong. Rice's got very quick feet and is very fast over both short and longer distances.
He would be fantastic for us as a 6, but he would probably cost way too much.
 
Bebestation said:
TAA is just as limited. Great on a cross and not much else.
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There's a big difference there though, TAA isn't just a good crosser, he's excellent on the ball. A big part of Liverpool's tactics is the fullback's (and not least TAA) ability to quickly switch play constantly, I wouldn't trust AWB to ping a ball 20 yards.
There's a trade off no doubt, AWB gives you more defensive solidity, but for Liverpool and United, the majority of games the quality on the ball far outweighs the defensive solidity.

Which brings us back to Rice, there are plenty of players that can give you the defensive abilities and are technically much better. For the price Rice would demand, you'd need to see a miles better technical player there.
 
buckooo1978 said:
He might have the legs over a 32/33 year old Matic but he doesn't have the ability to justify the stupid money West Ham would expect.

What I'm saying is I don't see the fuss. He's not in the same class as a Fabinho for example. I'd like a more technical player.
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He's a combative midfielder that doesn't have any stand out attribute IMO. It's simply a case of our fans can't see past the Premier League and are happy if the club drops 70m on him in a difficult financial situation due to Covid. But I wouldn't have any issues if the club went big on Jack Grealish for example for obvious reasons.
 
Adnan said:
He's a combative midfielder that doesn't have any stand out attribute IMO. It's simply a case of our fans can't see past the Premier League and are happy if the club drops 70m on him in a difficult financial situation due to Covid. But I wouldn't have any issues if the club went big on Jack Grealish for example for obvious reasons.
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Aye.

That's the thing for me, I don't see any attribute from Rice that you couldn't easily find playing in another European league for half the price.

Jack Grealish though, you'd struggle to find a player with his ability on the cheap.
 
For the first half wasn't even aware he was on the pitch. He’s not someone I see a lot of but I’ve never seen a game with him and thought wow that guy is going somewhere or would be of use to us. Looks alright at his job but for the sort of money that is being suggested for him doesn‘t seem right at all.

Being made invisible by Fred and Matic, man handled by Martial doesn’t really fill me with a lot of confidence.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
There's a big difference there though, TAA isn't just a good crosser, he's excellent on the ball. A big part of Liverpool's tactics is the fullback's (and not least TAA) ability to quickly switch play constantly, I wouldn't trust AWB to ping a ball 20 yards.
There's a trade off no doubt, AWB gives you more defensive solidity, but for Liverpool and United, the majority of games the quality on the ball far outweighs the defensive solidity.
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And I wouldnt trust TAA on any aspect of defending.

He hardly ever keeps an attacker quiet unless the team is completely on a defensive form.

Compare that to AWB has kept world class or players with high potential quiet like Mane, Sterling, Neto and others whilst also improving his attacking ability bit by bit.

For me AWB looks better than Shaw did at his age but has a lot of work that is required to even him out - which I believe will happen when he can rotate with an attacking RB like Trippier.


It's just my opinion but for me Wan Bissaka's attacking abilities causing a pain to some fans is probably the same fans that dont see much in Rice.

They look at Rice and see him not particularly being able to control the tempo of the game like a deep lying playmaker style Carrick or late on career Scholes - then decide Rice is useless and not good enough for us. He is a different style player, a pure defensive player - some will see the benefit of that and some wont just like they dont see the uses of AWB whilst calling him limited (whilst not realising that their limited ability is usually a world class ability where if the other abilities can be improved that we get an astounding player). I see that with Rice - if he can get some growth from Carricks coaching added to his defensive ability then we will be good.

I'd trust Ole's opinion on rice though, if he is good enough he will go for him. If he isnt then he isnt good enough and that limited ability isnt stand out at all.

Anyway I'm not talking about AWB on here anymore as it's the wrong thread.
 
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I'm not arsed about his attacking abilities, it's his general ability to move a football around a pitch. Something Luke Shaw was excellent at, from the second he entered the Southampton first team.

AWB is so clumsy he almost lobbed Henderson last night from his own clearance, did that surprise anyone?

Thinking he'll someone become miles better on the ball is fantasy land stuff.

But yeah, Rice.... offers nothing a 40m midfielder playing in Europe can't.
 
Bebestation said:
And I wouldnt trust TAA on any aspect of defending.

He hardly ever keeps an attacker quiet unless the team is completely on a defensive form.

Compare that to AWB has kept world class or players with high potential quiet like Mane, Sterling, Neto and others whilst also improving his attacking ability bit by bit.

For me AWB looks better than Shaw did at his age but has a lot of work that is required to even him out - which I believe will happen when he can rotate with an attacking RB like Trippier.


It's just my opinion but for me Wan Bissaka's attacking abilities causing a pain to some fans is probably the same fans that dont see much in Rice.

They look at Rice and see him not particularly being able to control the tempo of the game like a deep lying playmaker style Carrick or late on career Scholes - then decide Rice is useless and not good enough for us. He is a different style player, a pure defensive player - some will see the benefit of that and some wont just like they dont see the uses of AWB whilst calling him limited (whilst not realising that their limited ability is usually a world class ability where if the other abilities can be improved that we get an astounding player). I see that with Rice - if he can get some growth from Carricks coaching added to his defensive ability then we will be good.

I'd trust Ole's opinion on rice though, if he is good enough he will go for him. If he isnt then he isnt good enough and that limited ability isnt stand out at all.

Anyway I'm not talking about AWB on here anymore as it's the wrong thread.
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Your overall point is pretty sound, but improving technical ability so dramatically is very rare at Rice’s age.

AWB can easily improve his off the ball movement and decision making with coaching (as he is already doing), so it’s a bit different.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
I certainly wasn’t.

As for AWB, last night was another example of how limited he makes this side. Excellent at what he does but we’ll almost certainly need a new RB who is better on the ball at some point.
I’ve really tried to get behind AWB because he’s got a great attitude and he’s so good 1-on-1, but it’s becoming glaringly obvious that he’s a real issue for us.
It was an incredible sum of money for a player with such glaring weaknesses.
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It wasn’t his fault that he had the whole right side to look after on his own. When will it dawn on people that AWB has his best games when there is a winger ahead of him?
Last night I was watching Fred on the ball looking for options to spread the play multiple times, looks right, nope nobody there, looks left, no telles and Rashford is double teamed. So the ball went endlessly sideways, backwards and occasionally tried to go through the middle but rice and the others screened old Dawson well plus a replacement cb then another replacement defender. So to conclude, rice did his job well and AWB problem would be solved if he had a full right sided player to team up with
 
Adnan said:
Wouldn't you say it was due to defending in numbers and he (Rice) was one of many obstacles that we had to navigate?

Their whole midfield were playing the DM role.
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That’s sort of how I felt the game went. We still created some good opportunities, Martial and Greenwood both had good chances blocked in the first half and obviously the Rashford chance in the second top. I don’t think it’s the best game to scout Rice because the team defended very well collectively. I quite like Rice but I just don’t know if we can justify the 60 odd million West Ham might ask for him.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
I'm not arsed about his attacking abilities, it's his general ability to move a football around a pitch. Something Luke Shaw was excellent at, from the second he entered the Southampton first team.

AWB is so clumsy he almost lobbed Henderson last night from his own clearance, did that surprise anyone?

Thinking he'll someone become miles better on the ball is fantasy land stuff.

But yeah, Rice.... offers nothing a 40m midfielder playing in Europe can't.
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Oh come on that was a miss kick, something that’s happened to defenders for as long as I can remember. Look at Bednarek 2 own goals in a row
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
I'm not arsed about his attacking abilities, it's his general ability to move a football around a pitch. Something Luke Shaw was excellent at, from the second he entered the Southampton first team.

AWB is so clumsy he almost lobbed Henderson last night from his own clearance, did that surprise anyone?

Thinking he'll someone become miles better on the ball is fantasy land stuff.

But yeah, Rice.... offers nothing a 40m midfielder playing in Europe can't.
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To be fair that Wan-Bissaka clearance was one of the best bits of entertainment all night, he just wanted to get the fans off their seat.
 
The problem for me is that we have a competent central midfield in place. Not setting the world alight but doing enough to keep us competitive. So whoever we bring in has a high-ish bar to clear in order to be an improvement, and I'm not sure Rice is going to take us to the next level. Add into the mix that we're going to have to buy from West ham so we're probably talking £80 million I think its a huge gamble.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
I'm not arsed about his attacking abilities, it's his general ability to move a football around a pitch. Something Luke Shaw was excellent at, from the second he entered the Southampton first team.

AWB is so clumsy he almost lobbed Henderson last night from his own clearance, did that surprise anyone?

Thinking he'll someone become miles better on the ball is fantasy land stuff.

But yeah, Rice.... offers nothing a 40m midfielder playing in Europe can't.
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How dare anyone think the more he plays the better he will get. Last season he had 0 goals this season he’s already got 2.

You clearly have an agenda against AWB
 
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AltiUn said:
That’s sort of how I felt the game went. We still created some good opportunities, Martial and Greenwood both had good chances blocked in the first half and obviously the Rashford chance in the second top. I don’t think it’s the best game to scout Rice because the team defended very well collectively. I quite like Rice but I just don’t know if we can justify the 60 odd million West Ham might ask for him.
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The price makes no sense in the current climate with some reports stating the West Ham owners would demand 70m. I do agree that he'd be a upgrade defensively over our current options, but I also believe we could sign someone for considerably less from one of the European leagues which would also improve us defensively and enable us to upgrade elsewhere.
 
ash_86 said:
Controray to general tone here , i thought he had a excellent game. Sheilded their back four excellently and his offensive game has improved quite a lot. He is Matic regen and still has time in his side to improve his offensive input which i think will happen when he moves to a better club. If Lingard can be used as a make weight , I'm fine with 50m + lingard.
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A Matic regen? Matic has more footballing ability in one of his little toes.

What on earth are some people watching with this lad?
 
I don't want much I just want a player who can take the task of shielding the midfield in a one man job description.
Just hate that we have to use 2 deep players every single game we play.
 
Kag said:
A Matic regen? Matic has more footballing ability in one of his little toes.

What on earth are some people watching with this lad?
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Are you serious? I don't think there is anything outstanding about Matic footballing ability other than his defensive side. I do think Rice has good positional awarenss already at age 22 and could only get better with his all round game.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
feck off with this nonsense, Carrick was a known wonderkid that Fergie name dropped multiple times when he was just coming through. He was an incredible passer with both feet, especially between the lines.

Basically feck all like this guy.
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Agreed. A bit ridiculous to compare to Carrick. What I wouldn't give to have another 5 years of Michael...
 
Can we dick on AWB in his own thread?
If Rice played as well as Scott this year we would be quoted 100m and he'd be proclained as the next Bryan Robson.
 
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