Declan Rice

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LonelyFire said:
Matic is a proper CDM. We’ve never played with a single pivot with him. Rice isn’t going to make a difference with the defence - that exists because the personnel we have are too slow so need protecting. Rice would just cause another problem with unadventurous/slow passing from midfield.

He’s not the answer. Certainly not at the price West Ham will be asking.
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To be fair Matic can’t run at all so you’d never leave him as a single pivot.

Rice has also played that role for England in a 433 and looked rubbish.

There’s a big difference playing in a safe, stable team like West Ham and doing a defensive job, ask him to be on the front foot against the best teams and you’ll see a very different story.

I think he’s a decent player but he’s just another water carrier and we have plenty of those already, we need a playmaker.
 
I watched Yves Bissouma yesterday and I don't think there's a lot to choose. He doesn't bomb forward as much but looks more positionally aware and disciplined. He didn't let the Spurs midfield get a foothold and nor does he give away silly fouls.

Be a lot cheaper too IMO
 
Adam-Utd said:
To be fair Matic can’t run at all so you’d never leave him as a single pivot.

Rice has also played that role for England in a 433 and looked rubbish.

There’s a big difference playing in a safe, stable team like West Ham and doing a defensive job, ask him to be on the front foot against the best teams and you’ll see a very different story.

I think he’s a decent player but he’s just another water carrier and we have plenty of those already, we need a playmaker.
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Been saying this for ages
 
Inigo Montoya said:
Been saying this for ages
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Thiago would have been perfect for us, we need a similar style of player to him.

The issue is ole seems stuck on having the 2 in front of defence that rarely get into the box, I wish he’d let them off the leash a bit more as we saw with mctominay against Leeds he’s capable of doing that role.
 
Adam-Utd said:
To be fair Matic can’t run at all so you’d never leave him as a single pivot.

Rice has also played that role for England in a 433 and looked rubbish.

There’s a big difference playing in a safe, stable team like West Ham and doing a defensive job, ask him to be on the front foot against the best teams and you’ll see a very different story.

I think he’s a decent player but he’s just another water carrier and we have plenty of those already, we need a playmaker.
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I agree with all of this. I was just making the point to someone that Matic was a pure CDM.
 
He’s a good player but he’s nowhere near the £70-80m West Ham would want for him, he’s £40-50m at the most. He’s basically just Scott McTominay but a bit more progressive on the ball, he’s not the sort of player that’s taking us to the next level.
 
CDM nowadays has to be your metronome. The guy pulling the strings. He cant just be an out and out ball winner and thats it. If thats the case you cant be a team that dominates possession but rather nothing more than a counter attacking team. If anyone thinks of suggesting X player, ask yourself "Can this X player, play behind 2 other central midfielders and be the start of attacks and passing movements or does he need someone next to him to help with him passing or defending"
 
From what I've seen of him I don't think there's even a case for him being 'more progressive on the ball' than McTominay. I think he is a decent enough player but well over-hyped and not particularly good on the ball. In fact I would take McTominay over him any day in terms of passing ability.
 
shahzy said:
CDM nowadays has to be your metronome. The guy pulling the strings. He cant just be an out and out ball winner and thats it. If thats the case you cant be a team that dominates possession but rather nothing more than a counter attacking team. If anyone thinks of suggesting X player, ask yourself "Can this X player, play behind 2 other central midfielders and be the start of attacks and passing movements or does he need someone next to him to help with him passing or defending"
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I think this is rubbish. I dont know if Rice is good enough, but Casemiro, Marquinhos, Fabinho, Ndidi, Kante, Zakaria, Hojberg, Busquets, Laimer are not really deep lying playmakers - some may have a good ability on the ball at times but their main ability is to break up the play and provide stability to the defenders or a counter attack for their own team.

Someone on this thread said that deep lying playmakers have actually gone down in importance and whilst I never saw it before- I think to me it does have some truth in it.
 
For me, defensive midfield is our most pressing position to upgrade right now. That being said, Rice does not represent that upgrade for me.

I don’t look at him and see a player that belongs at the top level. He just doesn’t seem that good. On the ball I don’t see him as much better than McT, who himself is, in my opinion, not good enough on the ball.

Rice is just an okay player who would cost a fortune. We really should be looking elsewhere for our DM.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
I watched Yves Bissouma yesterday and I don't think there's a lot to choose. He doesn't bomb forward as much but looks more positionally aware and disciplined. He didn't let the Spurs midfield get a foothold and nor does he give away silly fouls.

Be a lot cheaper too IMO
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This is the player which Utd will be linked to all summer, but will sign for Liverpool out of the blue.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
I watched Yves Bissouma yesterday and I don't think there's a lot to choose. He doesn't bomb forward as much but looks more positionally aware and disciplined. He didn't let the Spurs midfield get a foothold and nor does he give away silly fouls.

Be a lot cheaper too IMO
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Yeah would certainly take him and there isn't the english premium involved either which makes it a better deal for us, particularly in these times of COVID where most clubs apart from you know who have to budget wisely
 
Bebestation said:
I think this is rubbish. I dont know if Rice is good enough, but Casemiro, Marquinhos, Fabinho, Ndidi, Kante, Zakaria, Hojberg, Busquets, Laimer are not really deep lying playmakers - some may have a good ability on the ball at times but their main ability is to break up the play and provide stability to the defenders or a counter attack for their own team.

Someone on this thread said that deep lying playmakers have actually gone down in importance and whilst I never saw it before- I think to me it does have some truth in it.
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Ahh interesting. I respect your views on it but i dont necessarily agree. Just two different ways of looking at football with neither being the 'right' way. Just a matter of taste
 
dont see how any one can watch Rice and think he plays as a CDM, hes all over the park, watch Fabinho or Bosquets and they are CDM, personally dont want someone who can just sit and win the ball, we need a player who can help us actually control games, something we very rarely do, would I take Rice to united yes because he is an upgrade on Matic, Fred and Mctomminay.
 
Murray3007 said:
dont see how any one can watch Rice and think he plays as a CDM, hes all over the park, watch Fabinho or Bosquets and they are CDM, personally dont want someone who can just sit and win the ball, we need a player who can help us actually control games, something we very rarely do, would I take Rice to united yes because he is an upgrade on Matic, Fred and Mctomminay.
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Think we should also look at the ones around europe such as Locatelli, Zakaria or Koopmeiners, however could also understand favouring the premier league proven options like Ndidi/Rice but get the impression that many on here think they aren't good enough on the ball for Utd but maybe I have misinterpreted things.
 
Some quote from west ham fans. Not like it matters to me but some people in here prefer to listen to people who watched him week in week out, so I posted them here.
Our best player and maybe the best central midfielder in the league right now.

For me he's nearing that Kante level in his specific role. He's pretty much the perfect defensive midfielder. Makes 4-5 tackles a game that seem impossible, sniffs out and shuts down most of what comes at us, carries the ball forward like a freight train, can pass and move with increasing amounts of skill and success every game.

Absolutely elite player.
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An absolutely colossal player and immense talent.

I have never seen a midfielder in his position, at his age, like him and we’ll not see one for many years, perhaps ever.

Incredible
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Dare I say a better range of passing than Kante?

I think he gets in every starting eleven in the country at the minute.
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I cant remember the last time that he made a mistake, he's thst good.
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Palace playing a two against this guy and Souey was suicidal.

At times, Rice was dominating the match at a pace one notch above walking!
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I feel so lucky having Declan Rice representing our football club. He’s genuinely one of the best central midfielders in the world.

What a f*cking football player he is.
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I'm impressed by how much he's improving, physically and technically , though I'd say everything around him is more industrious and athletic meaning there is less of expected of him in terms of donkey work.
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Interesting stat on BT: Rice has played EVERY minute of our last 57 PL games!
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UNITED ACADEMY said:
Some quote from west ham fans. Not like it matters to me but some people in here prefer to listen to people who watched him week in week out, so I posted them here.
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Remember these are the same West Ham supporters that were outraged Kevin Nolan and Mark Noble weren't regulars for England. They have a tendency to go overboard.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
Some quote from west ham fans. Not like it matters to me but some people in here prefer to listen to people who watched him week in week out, so I posted them here.
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Definitely get that vibe that he hardly ever gets injured which is always good, however hard to know right now if he is capable of making the step up to a champions league level club
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
Some quote from west ham fans. Not like it matters to me but some people in here prefer to listen to people who watched him week in week out, so I posted them here.
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Thanks for reminding me why West Ham fans are the actual worst.
 
croadyman said:
Definitely get that vibe that he hardly ever gets injured which is always good, however hard to know right now if he is capable of making the step up to a champions league level club
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Glad you get the memo why I posted the last quote.:)
 
ivaldo said:
Remember these are the same West Ham supporters that were outraged Kevin Nolan and Mark Noble weren't regulars for England. They have a tendency to go overboard.
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‘That’s why I said ‘’not like it matters to me‘’ since I know what type of fans they are:lol:
 
Bastian said:
Hasn't there been some rumours they'd accept a lot less than the unrealistic price they had in mind last summer? I like him.
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I think the rumors are that Lampard gone, Chelsea is less attractive to Rice now.

I like Rice too, but McFred are growing on me and we may have a gem in Garner.
 
croadyman said:
Think we should also look at the ones around europe such as Locatelli, Zakaria or Koopmeiners, however could also understand favouring the premier league proven options like Ndidi/Rice but get the impression that many on here think they aren't good enough on the ball for Utd but maybe I have misinterpreted things.
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to be fair Rice on the ball has improved dramatically this last 12 months, I like the players mentioned but in there league they get a lot of time on the ball in there leagues and might struggle to adapt, look at thiago, everyone thought he would deal with the press no problem but is simply not the case.
 
Ferguson bought Hargreaves and Anderson even though we already had Fletcher and Carrick. I guess he wanted a specialist DM for certain tricky away games against Europe's elite, when playing certain formations.

I'd take Rice at the right price based on him having leadership qualities and being English means he'd stay for life.

But I think Ole and the board will stick with trying to sign superkids like Diallo and Hugill in the next window, while perhaps splashing out on a top central defender.
 
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I watched him against Liverpool and thought he was poor, specially for the third goal, the flick from Chamberlein touched his foot and could have been blocked by him but he was slow to anticipate the flick and it fell perfectly for Firmino.

I just don't think he has the passing range to play a DM for Utd and there is a question mark over how much an upgrade he is over Mctonimay, plus they will ask for 80M which he is not worth it for me.
 
ivaldo said:
Remember these are the same West Ham supporters that were outraged Kevin Nolan and Mark Noble weren't regulars for England. They have a tendency to go overboard.
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I remember seeing one West Ham fan strutting around the co op claiming this was their year and they had a chance of winning the league. If Leicester could then so can they. I think they finished 10th.
 
Fahad Jawaid said:
I watched him against Liverpool and thought he was poor, specially for the third goal, the flick from Chamberlein touched his foot and could have been blocked by him but he was slow to anticipate the flick and it fell perfectly for Firmino.
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Agree. He was poor. Jones also made him look poor at one point.

But regarding McT, I think Rice is a different type of player. A type of player we lack since Matic lack mobility.
 
Bebestation said:
I think this is rubbish. I dont know if Rice is good enough, but Casemiro, Marquinhos, Fabinho, Ndidi, Kante, Zakaria, Hojberg, Busquets, Laimer are not really deep lying playmakers - some may have a good ability on the ball at times but their main ability is to break up the play and provide stability to the defenders or a counter attack for their own team.

Someone on this thread said that deep lying playmakers have actually gone down in importance and whilst I never saw it before- I think to me it does have some truth in it.
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What he said wasn't rubbish, Casemiro has Modric and Kroos with him, Marquinhos has Verratti or Parades, Ndidi has Tielemans, Kante has Jorginho or Kaovacic, Busquets had Xavi, point being that if you are more of a DM then your midfielder partner needs to be a playmaking #8, we don't have one of those to pair with Rice.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
I just don’t see it, not for the price.

I just struggle to believe you can’t find a player elsewhere that does what he does for half the price. Nothing about him is “exceptional”.

I might be wrong, I don’t watch him anywhere near enough.
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Johnny Giles was on the radio last week claiming he was the best all round midfielder in the league.

I haven't seen enough of him either.
 
Bebestation said:
Who in your eyes plays as a deep lying playmaker at CDM right now?
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Locatelli, Tonali, Bruno Guimares, Kimmich is a DLP he just has to cover other positions at times, Verratti is operating more as one these days as well, Jorginho, Thiago and De Jong come to mind. I wouldn't care about having a DLP if we had a #8 who was a playmaker like Gundogan or Tielemans. If we buy Rice to pair with Fred or McTominay then we'll remain reliant on counter attack football.
 
I don't see anything from Rice that McTominay doesn't offer to warrant his hefty price tag. I would spend the money on CB position as I think that is the most needed area of our team.
 
g11 said:
I don't see anything from Rice that McTominay doesn't offer to warrant his hefty price tag. I would spend the money on CB position as I think that is the most needed area of our team.
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So hard to tell what sort of player Ole is looking for in this position, you could well be right that he sees McTominay is a similar style to him and may suggest we are targeting more of a DLP type player
 
Devil may care said:
Locatelli, Tonali, Bruno Guimares, Kimmich is a DLP he just has to cover other positions at times, Verratti is operating more as one these days as well, Jorginho, Thiago and De Jong come to mind. I wouldn't care about having a DLP if we had a #8 who was a playmaker like Gundogan or Tielemans. If we buy Rice to pair with Fred or McTominay then we'll remain reliant on counter attack football.
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Do you think Henderson and Fabinho or Witsel and Delaney are DLP?
 
Acole9 said:
I remember seeing one West Ham fan strutting around the co op claiming this was their year and they had a chance of winning the league. If Leicester could then so can they. I think they finished 10th.
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:lol: The delusion is strong.
 
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