I still haven't forgiven himand id actually like him
Declan Rice
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None of these would start for City or Liverpool. Then we have a LB, a CB, a RB, a LW, a RW and a striker that would not start for any of them. How can we challenge with players like Rashford, Sancho, old Ronaldo and all the others. Get real people, this process is going to be long and we are not close to being good enough in most departments.
I don't see an special player on him. I think his level is closer to Mctominay, than a Keane or Carrick quality of player, what we should be looking for.
Is he though? No top PL teams plays like WHUM, he has a huge amount of structure around him and a system that suits his game. The one team that’s as structured and has a similar role albeit playing a different brand of football altogether is City and I doubt anyone on here is mental enough to think he’s better than Fernandinho was or Rodri is.
He would get into United’s team, easily, I don’t think he’d get into City, Chelsea or Pool’s and if he did would he really improve them that much? Very good player but not a great one for me.
so? they would work for us, ffs if thats the case why didnt we buy Fabinho or Gundogan? what a childish argument
nor me, but if he made United better i might
It's absolutely mental rating Rice with Pogba and Kovacic
That's like rating Lahm with Ronaldo - completely opposite players.
What Pogba does Rice can't do and what Rice does Pogba can't do.
I genuinely can't believe people don't see the difference between an Anchorman and the creative CM or box to box.
No wonder some people don't rate him, they don't understand what player he is.
Might aswell rate him compared to Bruno Fernandes.
Yeah, that was a bit awkward. But Bissouma is actually a fair comparison. I know Bissouma plays box to box but still the defensive contributions are slightly better.It's absolutely mental rating Rice with Pogba and Kovacic
That's like rating Lahm with Ronaldo - completely opposite players.
What Pogba does Rice can't do and what Rice does Pogba can't do.
I genuinely can't believe people don't see the difference between an Anchorman and the creative CM or box to box.
No wonder some people don't rate him, they don't understand what player he is.
Might aswell rate him compared to Bruno Fernandes.
Rice has more (5 higher abilities)
- touches in opposition box
- Chances created
- Final 1/3 entries
- Passes in to opposition half
- Aerial duals won
- Shots attempted
- Duels won
- Tackles made
- Take ons attempted
- Penalty box entries (bissouma is slightly higher)
- Ball recoveries (Rice has slightly better)
- Interceptions made (Rice has slightly better)
I don't personally see how Bissouma's stats are better than Rice. This is whilst Bissouma plays box to box chasing after the ball to tackle aswell as playing more in a possesion based football with Brighton than West ham do.
Thats my problem here. The fact that we are debating about a player who has slightly better or lower stats itself but available for one third of the price - is it really worth it? Im not getting a huge upgrade on Bissouma after spending 80m
Price is my issue. Plain and simple.
Yeah I think that's the case.
Some people simply don't care about the money because
- we don't know how much we have
- Because its not really our money to worry about how its being spent either for arguably the richest club in the world
- also we can't buy Bissouma because of his poor humanity
But ultimately some people do care about the money and that's fair I guess. But It's why I find the Maguire to Rice thing a bit off since what about Pogba? He cost us more and arguably can leave us on a free twice- looking like a bad investment just as much as Mbappe may be for PSG if he leaves on a free/doesn't win the CL too.
I wonder how people act if we go and buy our other gaps first like attacking RB, RW, Striker creative CM first -
And then buy Rice the following transfer window. Then the Rice is going to stop us buying other players would be /should be a less of an argument
Fair enough, definitely not as good as prime Fernandhino but he is still young for the position he plays in and I don't think he is anywhere near his peak yet. I would definitely pick him ahead of any of Liverpool's and Chelsea's midfielders at present moment.
If we can get someone at the same age who is just as good for half the price, then I'm all for that.
This fanbase is dumb. It really is.
Apparently spending over the odds for one player in the past has taught many nothing.
Now our fans are begging the club to do it again.
Also, World Class is talked about so lightly. He's not World Class ffs. He's a good player, could be great, but I don't think he takes us to the next level.
He's nowhere near as good as Fernandinho was, nor even Casemiro or Kimmich, and he lacks the passing ability and ability to progress the ball that is absolutely necessary at a top club. Casemiro is the exception, however still very good on the ball. It's also an incredibly hard task for players to improve this aspect of their game. Neither was a record signing for their respective clubs(who spend boatloads of money), yet here we are looking at jumping on the media's new hypetrain.
Apparently spending over the odds for one player in the past has taught many nothing.
Now our fans are begging the club to do it again.
Also, World Class is talked about so lightly. He's not World Class ffs. He's a good player, could be great, but I don't think he takes us to the next level.
He's nowhere near as good as Fernandinho was, nor even Casemiro or Kimmich, and he lacks the passing ability and ability to progress the ball that is absolutely necessary at a top club. Casemiro is the exception, however still very good on the ball. It's also an incredibly hard task for players to improve this aspect of their game. Neither was a record signing for their respective clubs(who spend boatloads of money), yet here we are looking at jumping on the media's new hypetrain.
I genuinely love how divisive this is. There wasn't this much opposition to Maguire
Nice combo and both could play as number 6 or number 8 giving flexibility
I have very mixed feelings about this.
On one hand the fees surrounding Rice are ridiculous. Maybe its because I was born in a generation that was blessed with some of the finest DMs in football (the likes of Keane, Ince and Davids would shit all over Rice let alone the grand maestros of that position such as Rijkaard was). Having said that there aren't many top DMs at the moment and Murtough, Fletcher (no one knows what he does, not even Rangnick but oh well) and scouts wouldn't be able to spot a talent outside the EPL even if it came knocking at their door. So I am warming to the prospect of Rice joining us in the same way I warming to the idea of having half blood pressure considering most of my family has it already. It does sound inevitable
On one hand the fees surrounding Rice are ridiculous. Maybe its because I was born in a generation that was blessed with some of the finest DMs in football (the likes of Keane, Ince and Davids would shit all over Rice let alone the grand maestros of that position such as Rijkaard was). Having said that there aren't many top DMs at the moment and Murtough, Fletcher (no one knows what he does, not even Rangnick but oh well) and scouts wouldn't be able to spot a talent outside the EPL even if it came knocking at their door. So I am warming to the prospect of Rice joining us in the same way I warming to the idea of having half blood pressure considering most of my family has it already. It does sound inevitable
I think they’ll go for him and bring garner back.
I think there was. It's probably just ramped up a bit as a result of how the Maguire transfer went.I genuinely love how divisive this is. There wasn't this much opposition to Maguire
There was a point where I thought there were parallels between Rice and Maguire but I think Rice is playing at a higher level now for West Ham than Maguire ever did for Leicester.
Rice is now in the conversation when it comes to best midfielders in the league, whereas Maguire was a fairly bog standard defender who did well for England when we signed him.
Neves is not it.
These piecemeal rebuilds, where we spend outrageous amounts on a couple of players and leave the rest for next summer, are exactly why we are where we find ourselves - fighting for top four after spending half a billion in five years. And not to mention that five years after signing Matic we can't postpone the issue anymore.
There are midfield players in the £30m to £50m range that can give us what we are looking for. It doesn't have to be Rice just like it didn't need to be Maguire, all the Maguire alternatives that were dismissed then (Diaz, Konate and Upermecano) have made moves and been solid signings for their teams so we can be reasonably sure that players being dismissed for this obsession with Rice will one day prove to be adequate at a level higher than where Rice will take us.
Signing Rice will mean no striker, no starting RB and no RW. The team will always be weaker even after blowing £80m on him. We need to learn from our mistakes and build the team wholistically by spreading our investment on several cheaper players that may not be better individually but make for a balanced and hence stronger side.
The prices being touted for Rice will confortably get us two or three players in Portugal. The club has to smarten up ffs!
The Roy Keane comparisons would've been endless.If Rice had stayed Irish, he would be way more affordable
I genuinely love how divisive this is. There wasn't this much opposition to Maguire
I think this has been divisive precisely because of Maguire.
A player coming from a lower ranked team in the league (Leicester, West Ham) who has never played in a top team that is expected to go at the big teams rather than be reactive underdogs and having a massive transfer fee hanging over their head. The parallels in the nature of the transfer are quite obvious. We expected a Van Dijk type of transformative CB when Maguire was signed for a world record defender fee and instead we’ve got a man who looks average at best.
The big issue with Rice is the cost of the transfer. Not that it’s my money, but the club needs to reinforce other positions as well, and there’s been no guarantee shown that if we spend 100 million on one player that there is adequate funding for the other positions that need it. When you take that into account along with the risk of him not being as good as we think he can be, then you can see why there’s a lot of opposition to the idea.
I like Rice. I think he is a good player with the potential to become great. However the risk very much exists that he could end up a Schneiderlin type of flop. Schneiderlin was one of the best defensive midfielders around in the league before we signed him as well. And if he fails, then we’re likely stuck with other positions not having gotten adequate reinforcements either.
I like Rice. He is a good player and would be an improvement to our team in an area where we need it. The price is the issue here though. £80m is wild money for someone who won't be the difference in winning the league or not (in my opinion at least). The easiest way for Rice to leave West Ham is to run down his contract and go on a free. I'd be surprised if anyone is willing to pay what West Ham want.
If we keep this system then do we actually need a pure sitting midfielder who won’t go and create too? If we go for ETH do Ajax play with a sitter since De Jong left? (honest question, I don’t watch Ajax apart from CL) Poch might try and use him as Veratti type (bit of a square peg situation there?)
Rice from a marketing and potential standpoint is a no brainier. Looks a really good player at what he does. Will be an England player for the next ten years.
His price and and how we plan to use him are the two major questions. Are we going to get maximum value. In the current system I don’t see him as a major upgrade on McT. If we change system again it’s possible he becomes one of our most important players. I think if you throw him into what we have now, for 100 million, it would be underwhelming to put it mildly.
This, it's pointless to spend £100m on Rice and start next season without a quality striker and RB and that's exactly what will happen because we all know that the Glazer aren't funding a £200m summer spending spree.
You absolutely right in that Rice is unlikely to be as transformative a signing to justify spending that much on him and it will be counterproductive to bet so much on him on an unbalanced side like ours. We have seen the club making these mistakes before, splurging on one or two players and then overestimating the level at which our current players (Matic/Mata) will contribute only to be badly let down where it matters most. So this summer it's an absolute must to sign a DM, Striker and RB.
If he is our number one target then i am happy for him been consistent for 2 1/2 seasons
Name me the alternatives?
Neves looks slow can he play on his own
Bissouma got that charge but other team seem to be trying to sign him
Tchouameni he's not gonna be cheap with Madrid & Chelsea after him
Anyone who says Haidara didn't know who the lad was until he was linked with us
Keane was a record fee anybody honestly say they knew he was gonna turn into the unbelievable player after his spell at Forest
Carrick when he was signed there was uproar as how have we got this kid and given him Keane's shirt
Noone honestly knows if Rice is good enough until he plays for us
guaranteed if he goes Chelsea and looks class the people who are kicking off will be saying should of signed him always knew he was World Class
Name me the alternatives?
Neves looks slow can he play on his own
Bissouma got that charge but other team seem to be trying to sign him
Tchouameni he's not gonna be cheap with Madrid & Chelsea after him
Anyone who says Haidara didn't know who the lad was until he was linked with us
Keane was a record fee anybody honestly say they knew he was gonna turn into the unbelievable player after his spell at Forest
Carrick when he was signed there was uproar as how have we got this kid and given him Keane's shirt
Noone honestly knows if Rice is good enough until he plays for us
guaranteed if he goes Chelsea and looks class the people who are kicking off will be saying should of signed him always knew he was World Class
I genuinely love how divisive this is. There wasn't this much opposition to Maguire
There was a huge difference - we badly needed a central defender and there really wasn't that many out there available who looked quality. With a central midfielder I can easily think of 10 midfielders who would seriously strengthen us - even if Rice would be my first choice. And I can buy the argument that he will be too expensive considering we need to strengthen several areas - but when people say Rice ISN'T pure quality - they know very little about football. The thought of him at Liverpool scares me to death.
It is isnt it? Im not getting the Neves hate on here Geebs. He is already proven in the league. I think both solidify the midfield.
He would be a excellent signing if we got him. The price is definitely a issue and could well see us making concessions in other areas of the pitch, which I believe we shouldn't do. And we should instead look to create a balanced team by bringing in players who will help us achieve that, and it looks like we're gonna require quite a few of those players to create that balance.
Rice is far superior to Mctominay and his ability to pass with both feet and position himself in defensive transitions is telling. And someone like ten Hag would definitely like Declan Rice in his team imo due to Rice being good with both feet and defensively strong.
The only concern I have about Rice is that he's playing for a coach that adopts a low/mid block approach, which means he isn't often exposed to defending large space in 1v1 situations, which will become a reality at Man Utd under a coach who looks to impose his play style on the opposition. So if we do sign him, I hope we don't pair him up with Tielemans or Neves in a compact high block, because Tielemans and Neves would get bypassed comfortably in such a setup and aren't suited to a dynamic front foot approach in defensive transitions. Someone like Caqueret from Lyon might be a better partner for him due to his moblity, industry, as well as technical ability. He's still very young but is coming into the final year of his contract and could be picked up for a very reasonable sum.
Rice is far superior to Mctominay and his ability to pass with both feet and position himself in defensive transitions is telling. And someone like ten Hag would definitely like Declan Rice in his team imo due to Rice being good with both feet and defensively strong.
The only concern I have about Rice is that he's playing for a coach that adopts a low/mid block approach, which means he isn't often exposed to defending large space in 1v1 situations, which will become a reality at Man Utd under a coach who looks to impose his play style on the opposition. So if we do sign him, I hope we don't pair him up with Tielemans or Neves in a compact high block, because Tielemans and Neves would get bypassed comfortably in such a setup and aren't suited to a dynamic front foot approach in defensive transitions. Someone like Caqueret from Lyon might be a better partner for him due to his moblity, industry, as well as technical ability. He's still very young but is coming into the final year of his contract and could be picked up for a very reasonable sum.
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I am not sure so many are saying hes not good, hes very good at what he does. The problem is that the midfield needs more than what he brings, we need more players.
I had doubts over him, especially around mobility. They are still there to an extent so why pairing him with a more mobile player would help. I think otherwise Neves game has progressed this season
Yeah you dont buy him for his mobility its his passing range and he would chip in 8 to 10 thundercnuts a season
You really think Rashford and Sancho wouldn't start for City or Liverpool? Liverpool were interested in Sancho. Sancho was one of the most coveted young English players before we signed him. Chelsea and Liverpool wanted him
I see where you are coming from, but the big bonus you have with Rice is that he seems to have the mentality for a move like United. I don’t think he’d come here and shrink.
My only issue with the pursuit of Rice is that I think it will compromise the club’s ability to bring in a new forward. This is before you even factor in replacing Pogba who is bound to leave on a free.
We dropped a massive bollock last summer. Ridiculous we’re in a position in which we can’t go all in on a player like Rice.
I am not even sure Rashford would make the bench.
Just as well because he’d cost significantly more than that.
Based on ?
That's hilarious. An English international of his profile will make the bench at the very least of every top PL club. Firmino plays at Liverpool ffs and they've kept him on through bad spells of form
Their better players.
His profile is not that good.
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