Declan Rice

Status
Not open for further replies.
Bebestation said:
I hate this Rice is Maguire racist sh*t. I never rated Maguire and I rate Rice. Maguire was like 4 or 5 or 6 years older than Rice when we signed him aswell.

Its weird how people can say such things with ease but if I said that Tchouameni is nothing but a mix of the next Schneiderlin & Djemba Djemba then people would get more protective about what's been said.
Click to expand...
Nationality =/= Race...

People being apprehensive over paying over the odds for other Prem talent given our recent history isn't the source of outrage you seem to believe. The reality is that buying players from other PL clubs will always come at a premium, it would be the same if we went after someone like Tielemans/Ndidi or Bissouma. Their respective clubs would also be looking to take us to the cleaners.

I also rate Rice but paying 80-100m during a summer where we have other pressing needs would be suicidal for the next season or 2. Would be all for it if we can get him for a more realistic fee than what's been rumored
 
cyberman said:
But I just don’t think Rice would work in a pressing midfield because if the way he sits so deep. The gap between he and the rest would be a huge disadvantage. People keep talking about how improved he is his season but the West Ham back 4 aren’t getting any protection and they’re struggling in midfield every other week.
Click to expand...
True, but could he be trained to do his role differently? Way too risky for the price suggested though.
 
Rolaholic said:
Brozovic is on the verge of signing an extension with Inter according to the Italian papers.

The other 2 would be shrewdish moves along with Rice. Been disappointed that we haven't looked into Kessie much when he'll be available on a free, can't let Barca get free reign on him.
Click to expand...

I guess with Kessie it’s down to him being similar to McTominay and Fred whereas Kamara is much more of a proper defensive midfielder and Brozovic more of a deep lying playmaker, I’d prefer if we got Kamara and Brozovic over Kessie and also brough Rice in too.
 
McGrathsipan said:
All big teams overpay for fellas to kick a football.. none of them are really worth that kind of money.

The market will dictate what Rice goes for and in todays money 100 mill is becoming more normal isnt it?
fecking lukaku has generated some massive fees and hes shit - didnt stop people paying for him.

Rice is a good player and will do well at United if he joins and I dont really care what his fee is - better spent on players anyway than in the Glazers pockets
Click to expand...

This club needs to start making smart signings and signing Rice at that fee in a key transfer window where we need to start a hard rebuild is not smart.

Is he the only player we can sign in his role? I'd genuinely like to know. Are they any cheaper alternatives that possess the same qualities and attributes? The answer isn't no. The market dictates the prices to a certain degree.

City for instance refused to pay over the odds even for players Pep has coveted and only just made Grealish their first 100M signing. They signed Ruben Dias for 61M during the pandemic and he's vastly superior to Maguire and won the FWA player of of the season in his first season.

Furthermore, city's second highest transfer fee paid was 68M for De Bryune in 2015. Liverpool have similary made smarter signings since Klopp took over. Why can't we be smarter in the transfer market? United tax? Rice is good but he's nowhere close to being worth the rumored transfer fees. Nowhere close.
 
Bebestation said:
Did anyone see yesterday when he got pressed by like 2 or 3 players in to a tight spot and he dribbled out away from them so quickly and precise? It was towards the end of the game.
Click to expand...
He also lost the ball for one of their goals against didn't he? But it is impressive that he just added that carrying the ball skill to his repertoire. And by the way, isn't racist a bit OTT? I mean, people don't compare Maguire and Rise because they are English or white - they do because they both are hyped players at the time of potential transfer, both are from top4 contender teams, captain material, physically imposing, comfortable on the ball and huge fees attached. I think, the similarities are pretty big.
 
NZT-One said:
He also lost the ball for one of their goals against didn't he? But it is impressive that he just added that carrying the ball skill to his repertoire. And by the way, isn't racist a bit OTT? I mean, people don't compare Maguire and Rise because they are English or white - they do because they both are hyped players at the time of potential transfer, both are from top4 contender teams, captain material, physically imposing, comfortable on the ball and huge fees attached. I think, the similarities are pretty big.
Click to expand...


The Maguire/Rice similarities are lazy and ignorant....

Also Rice is having an outstanding season and is on the verge of being world class, alot of West Ham fans saying he already is.

Maguire who I rate never looked outstanding/'world class' at Leicester..
 
GueRed said:
The Maguire/Rice similarities are lazy and ignorant....

Also Rice is having an outstanding season and is on the verge of being world class, alot of West Ham fans saying he already is.

Maguire who I rate never looked outstanding/'world class' at Leicester..
Click to expand...
Jesus. Does the word 'world class' still meant anything at this point? People kept throwing around the word to describe any player that is in good form. I mean, Declan Rice, world class? :lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
GueRed said:
The Maguire/Rice similarities are lazy and ignorant....

Also Rice is having an outstanding season and is on the verge of being world class, alot of West Ham fans saying he already is.

Maguire who I rate never looked outstanding/'world class' at Leicester..
Click to expand...

Back then Maguire was considered in here as the second best CB in the EPL
 
devilish said:
Back then Maguire was considered in here as the second best CB in the EPL
Click to expand...

Rice is like 22 though.

At the age of that Maguire was like at Hull wasn't he?

They are not a similar players but I don't see why Rice is Maguire to people and instead why Rice couldn't be a Ferdinand, Rooney or a Carrick - a young english player thats bossing it for their team and would be useful for us.

I don't follow data much aswell, but Rice is in alot of data tables in the top 5 CDM of the world whilst playing in the PL aswell.
 
GueRed said:
The Maguire/Rice similarities are lazy and ignorant....

Also Rice is having an outstanding season and is on the verge of being world class, alot of West Ham fans saying he already is.

Maguire who I rate never looked outstanding/'world class' at Leicester..
Click to expand...
I listed the similarities in my post. Didn't say they are the same people but the scenario is pretty similar. And how the Maguire scenario is turning out for us (or most other big big money scenarios at other clubs for reference), should make us at least a bit skeptical of all the promise. If you think, thats lazy and ignorant, so be it.

Bebestation said:
Rice is like 22 though.

At the age of that Maguire was like at Hull wasn't he?

They are not a similar players but I don't see why Rice is Maguire to people and instead why Rice couldn't be a Ferdinand, Rooney or a Carrick - a young english player thats bossing it for their team and would be useful for us.

I don't follow data much aswell, but Rice is in alot of data tables in the top 5 CDM of the world whilst playing in the PL aswell.
Click to expand...
I am sure, no one will deny that the players do not have the same age ^^ But still, it is a pretty similar scenario as laid out in an earlier post. Of course there is a possibility he could turn out a Ferdinand, a Rooney or a Carrick. But for the proposed outlay, I'd rather deny the opportunity. Not because the player wouldn't be good enough but because such an outlay would probably hamper other deals which are necessary as well. It is a bit of bad timing for Rice but the notion, there is only one player out there who could help us out and "you just have to pay what is necessary to get him" is unrealistic. Look what happened to all the big money transfers, almost none of them turned out a success. I get the admiration of the player, I am sure he is a great one, but the chance/risk ratio doesn't look too good for the proposed prices.
 
Bebestation said:
Rice is like 22 though.

At the age of that Maguire was like at Hull wasn't he?

They are not a similar players but I don't see why Rice is Maguire to people and instead why Rice couldn't be a Ferdinand, Rooney or a Carrick - a young english player thats bossing it for their team and would be useful for us.

I don't follow data much aswell, but Rice is in alot of data tables in the top 5 CDM of the world whilst playing in the PL aswell.
Click to expand...

That's not my point though. Maguire was rated very highly as well. I was one of his few critics and I got an incredible amount of stick for it. I dare to say that he was rated at Leicester higher then Rice is now
 
devilish said:
That's not my point though. Maguire was rated very highly as well. I was one of his few critics and I got an incredible amount of stick for it. I dare to say that he was rated at Leicester higher then Rice is now
Click to expand...

So this was due to how highly people rated him.

What about Sancho? Did people not rate him highly?

Why can't Rice be a Sancho?

Literally the same transfer fee mentioned too.
 
Bebestation said:
So this was due to how highly people rated him.

What about Sancho? Did people not rate him highly?

Why can't Rice be a Sancho?

Literally the same transfer fee mentioned too.
Click to expand...

No one was rated as highly as Sancho. If you read the posts around him at the time you would have thought that we were buying an upgrade over Messi

For the record my only issue with Rice is the price. 100m is far too much for the lad especially since we need to strengthen other positions as well. Maybe we can soften the deal by inserting VDB in it
 
Last edited:
You can all argue until the cows come home whether Rice is world class or not.

The simple fact is he's not worth £100m. West Ham see him as key to their side and won't sell for any less.

He's staying there for 2/3 years more at least. By that stage he will either be sort after by all the big clubs, or just the next Mark Noble.
 
Bebestation said:
So this was due to how highly people rated him.

What about Sancho? Did people not rate him highly?

Why can't Rice be a Sancho?

Literally the same transfer fee mentioned too.
Click to expand...
Simple fact that Sancho was/is a CL proven ATTACKER that guarantees goals and assists. The valuations of attackers especially young ones will always be naturally high
There's not a single holding mid out there that's worth anything beyond £70m max leave alone £100m which can get you two solid midfielders. For £100m should be getting a Makelele/Busquets/Xabi Alonso level talent bare minimum who's played at the highest level not a better version of McTominay with no CL experience.
 
RkkMan said:
Simple fact that Sancho was/is a CL proven ATTACKER that guarantees goals and assists. The valuations of attackers especially young ones will always be naturally high
There's not a single holding mid out there that's worth anything beyond £70m max leave alone £100m which can get you two solid midfielders. For £100m should be getting a Makelele/Busquets/Xabi Alonso level talent bare minimum who's played at the highest level not a better version of McTominay with no CL experience.
Click to expand...

Damn.

Rice is the most equivalent to Makelele I could think of that's a youngster.

And to me Sancho was average in the CL compared to the Bundesliga performances.
 
RkkMan said:
Simple fact that Sancho was/is a CL proven ATTACKER that guarantees goals and assists. The valuations of attackers especially young ones will always be naturally high
There's not a single holding mid out there that's worth anything beyond £70m max leave alone £100m which can get you two solid midfielders. For £100m should be getting a Makelele/Busquets/Xabi Alonso level talent bare minimum who's played at the highest level not a better version of McTominay with no CL experience.
Click to expand...

Spot on. You drop that kind of money for a special player. Rice is just the flavour of the month. If he continue his performances for a couple of years then maybe but right now it would stupid. That's why I expect us to pay 100 mil for Rice this summer.
 
Suv666 said:
Spot on. You drop that kind of money for a special player. Rice is just the flavour of the month. If he continue his performances for a couple of years then maybe but right now it would stupid. That's why I expect us to pay 100 mil for Rice this summer.
Click to expand...

He isnt the flavour of the month, his progression is clearly there to see.
 
Ramshock said:
He isnt the flavour of the month, his progression is clearly there to see.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to be mean but do you have this slight small feeling that Rice's best attributes are things like his proactive reading of his game and intelligence to be at the right place at the right time? I just feel that more than anything the guy has this really great intelligence of football at the age of 22. Even when it comes to passing - which is no doubt his weakest aspect, I feel like this is happening more due to him not trying to take unnecessary risks with his passing and losing the ball rather than him having no passing ability at all. I've seen it plenty of times when West Ham are chasing a goal towards the last 10 mins then Rice suddenly takes more risks with things like long distance passing and dribbling from one end to another.

Anyway, I don't mean to hurt anyone's feeling with this - but Rice seems to me a total footballing intelligence player that I feel sometimes may not get rated by people who don't exactly value footballing intelligence or maybe even not have that much of it themselves to follow what he does on the pitch for 90 mins.

Ofcourse I could be wrong and Rice maybe completely shit (and I'm completely open to this idea even if I rate Rice highly), but I do feel like there are some people who prefer players they can see with the ball at their feet running about everywhere and see what they do with the ball or playing reactively whenever they don't have it ie slide tackling all over the place rather than someone who is absolutely top class at reading the game, the opposition, the passing lanes, the positions they should take to have the most minimal outcome for the oppositions attack on the rest of defence and our goal.

It's the one aspect that makes me want Rice than any other player - his ability to read the opposition attack before it happens. I just can't see how people can watch that and not get 'wowed' by that - that I almost think if they don't like Rice; that they couldn't follow exactly what he was doing due to them following more the "football" than just intelligence maneuvers without the actual football itself.

Ofcourse opinion is still opinion.
 
@Bebestation should receive an award if we end up signing this guy. He has been trying to convince pretty much everyone who has a negative opinion.
 
RashysTekkers said:
Jesus. Does the word 'world class' still meant anything at this point? People kept throwing around the word to describe any player that is in good form. I mean, Declan Rice, world class? :lol::lol::lol::lol:
Click to expand...

Well if a player is considered one of the best in the world in their position then shouldn't that mean that they are world class?

If Rice is considered to be one of the best in the world in that position then it can be said that he is world class. He is certainly one of the best in the PL in that position but I am not knowledge enough to say he is one of the best in the world, maybe others on here are?
 
bond19821982 said:
@Bebestation should receive an award if we end up signing this guy. He has been trying to convince pretty much everyone who has a negative opinion.
Click to expand...

:lol:
I tend to only really watch United football, the knockout CL and national tournament football. Rice is a player I just really started to enjoy watching because I find it entertaining to the point that I've occasionally been following West ham games, something Ive never did before.

This will likely mean two things - either I'm overating Rice because I don't really watch much other teams than United anyway (so there maybe many many better players that do what he does); or maybe he is good and caught my interest for a reason.

It's why I'm open to the idea he will flop aswell as be absolutely phenomenal.
 
I still think we should go after a more affordable target like Marcelo Brozović. If we’re going to break the bank and sign a world class DM, then either Franck Kessié or Joshua Kimmich.
 
RopersReturn said:
I still think we should go after a more affordable target like Marcelo Brozović. If we’re going to break the bank and sign a world class DM, then either Franck Kessié or Joshua Kimmich.
Click to expand...

Break the bank for a player who is available for free ? Hmm!
 
Bebestation said:
:lol:
I tend to only really watch United football, the knockout CL and national tournament football. Rice is a player I just really started to enjoy watching because I find it entertaining to the point that I've occasionally been following West ham games, something Ive never did before.

This will likely mean two things - either I'm overating Rice because I don't really watch much other teams than United anyway (so there maybe many many better players that do what he does); or maybe he is good and caught my interest for a reason.

It's why I'm open to the idea he will flop aswell as be absolutely phenomenal.
Click to expand...
Fair point. Thing is, I do understand our success has been built on players from PL but now everyone has money and they will take us to cleaners. Maguire,AWB being the key examples.

Anything above 60m is bit too much for him and we will make compromise on other signings.


Hey, if money isn't an issue ofcourse just get him. But if we only have 120m and if we end up spending 80 on this guy, that will be a poor business.
 
bond19821982 said:
Fair point. Thing is, I do understand our success has been built on players from PL but now everyone has money and they will take us to cleaners. Maguire,AWB being the key examples.

Anything above 60m is bit too much for him and we will make compromise on other signings.


Hey, if money isn't an issue ofcourse just get him. But if we only have 120m and if we end up spending 80 on this guy, that will be a poor business.
Click to expand...

And for me this is not really got to do with the PL players.

For me it's because people see United and increase the transfer fee instantly as seen with the media.

Pogba(90), Lukaku(75), Sancho(70), Di Maria (60), Fred (47) - even Diallo at 37.2 and Martial from 36 to 58 million.

I just don't know why Maguire and Wan Bissaka get picked. What about Pogba? Lukaku? Sancho? Di Maria? Fred?

Expensive transfers from the Pl. Expensive transfers from other leagues. Expensive transfers on young English players etc.

Anyway, it's the same talk about Maguire = Rice and I just don't see why that is the case.
 
Bebestation said:
Rice is like 22 though.

At the age of that Maguire was like at Hull wasn't he?

They are not a similar players but I don't see why Rice is Maguire to people and instead why Rice couldn't be a Ferdinand, Rooney or a Carrick - a young english player thats bossing it for their team and would be useful for us.

I don't follow data much aswell, but Rice is in alot of data tables in the top 5 CDM of the world whilst playing in the PL aswell.
Click to expand...

He's nowhere near as unique as Ferdinand or Rooney were. They were always considered very special talents, on a totally different level to Rice in terms of potential.
 
We’re going to stupidly blow our transfer budget on him. This upcoming window will be unique based on the number of talented players available on a free including a number of midfielders. I think once players see how much money they can profit over running down their contract, it’ll be more common place to see a free agency/free transfer frenzy.
 
Looking at the stats, Pogba is a beast. Rice is no way worth 80m . We aren't even getting a better player than Bissouma.
 
He's a top player, not worth the fee, but you aren't taking him from West Ham without paying them what they want. I see him at Chelsea in 1-2 years.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.