Think it's me and you are on the same page about Rice. I think people have seen Rice's progression and just think it will be linear so "100m will pay for itself", which of course, is nonsense.
Declan Rice
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Same here. Alternatively, put Mctominay in that West Ham side and he'd do a very similar job.
People just can't understand why playing in a deep set, tightly knit team can enhance a defensive players capabilities.
There's a reason why Rice never looks as good for England.
I havent done a table but you can use this website.
https://fbref.com/en/stathead/playe...big_5&player_id1=b853e0ad&player_id2=eb7822d7
He's definitely better this year than last, which is fair - but so is the West Ham side too in general. That doesn't mean he's going to suddenly turn into a 20 assist midfielder next year either, or become a Xabi Alonso/Carrick style ball player.
He's a safe tidy midfielder who can tackle well. If he was available for 40m? i'd say yeah sure stick him at CDM and push Mctominay forward. The simple fact is West Ham won't let him go for anything that isn't stupid money.
Look at the pressure Pogba got, people expected him to dominate midfielders, score goals and assists because of his price tag. Are we going to expect that of Rice too?
Why do you think McFred under Ole looked very good against City, PSG, Liverpool and the like? We set up defensively on the counter. As soon as we want to play an expansive brand, their deficiencies are there to be seen.
Mainly its the passing range, which is the same with Rice.
Rice got outshone by Verratti in the Euros final because Veratti is an elite passer of a football.
Can McT improve? At his age? With his attitude...definitely. He is an important player for us. Funnily enough my issue is not with his technical ability...it’s his brain...his positional sense...it’s not as natural as you would like. It’s the one thing Roce definitely has over him.
I thought Rice looked quite good in a Fabinho "3rd CB 5 yards ahead" type role for England, but Bruno seems unable to thrive in a 4-3-3 that demands, since otherwise you're back to a double pivot and yeah maybe we'll be paying 90M for a guy who looks great one week but a little too much like Morgan Schneiderlin or McTominay the next.
Why post selective stats (you’ve got Rice’s pass completion wrong for one) when you can post links to the comprehensive scouting reports for this season which grades them against all players in the league in their position?
https://fbref.com/en/players/1c7012b8/scout/11160/Declan-Rice-Scouting-Report
https://fbref.com/en/players/d93c2511/scout/11160/Scott-McTominay-Scouting-Report
Same happened for Maguire, once we get away from a situation of over protecting him, he's not that good.
Or compare Rice and McT to to the much vaunted Fabinho in the comprehensive scouting reports for this season. It’s seems that performance wise Rice has more in common with Fabinho than McT has in common with Rice. Fabinho only really beats Rice in goal threat and that’s largely because he takes some penalties.
https://fbref.com/en/players/7f3b388c/scout/11160/Fabinho-Scouting-Report
https://fbref.com/en/players/1c7012b8/scout/11160/Declan-Rice-Scouting-Report
https://fbref.com/en/players/d93c2511/scout/11160/Scott-McTominay-Scouting-Report
https://fbref.com/en/players/7f3b388c/scout/11160/Fabinho-Scouting-Report
https://fbref.com/en/players/1c7012b8/scout/11160/Declan-Rice-Scouting-Report
https://fbref.com/en/players/d93c2511/scout/11160/Scott-McTominay-Scouting-Report
Lies, damn lies and statistics.
Even when right they only tell half the story. How is he in training, in the dressing room, how good is he to play alongside, how much of an example does he set on and off the pitch, how much respect does he command?
We lack leaders, he is one. He would be a long term investment.
Even when right they only tell half the story. How is he in training, in the dressing room, how good is he to play alongside, how much of an example does he set on and off the pitch, how much respect does he command?
We lack leaders, he is one. He would be a long term investment.
Nothing like a good song never mind 3
Really hope we don’t splash stupid money on this guy when we could buy two possibly three players for the same price that it would take to prize him from West Ham.
I think it makes sense us going all in for Rice this Summer and, realistically speaking, we aren't going to be happy with what we pay for him (80m plus). However, he's English which counts to squad rules, he's a great character, young and fills a position we're in dire need of. He's improving all the time, though I'd ideally want someone who's more of that deep lying playmaker type.
Rice this Summer. Bellingham the next one. Bruno still a reasonable age with Mejbri and Shoretire hopefully developing as attacking midfielders. Midfield sorted for years.
That being said, we definitely need someone this January as Matic and an out of position Fred or McTominay isn't sufficient if we really want to do anything in the cups and the top 4 race this season. I'd go Kamara for hopefully circa 10m and he can fill out our squad going forward. Zakaria hasn't been the same player since his injury and Haidara probably isn't the right profile (and his alleged 33m release clause apparently doesn't kick in until the Summer).
Rice this Summer. Bellingham the next one. Bruno still a reasonable age with Mejbri and Shoretire hopefully developing as attacking midfielders. Midfield sorted for years.
That being said, we definitely need someone this January as Matic and an out of position Fred or McTominay isn't sufficient if we really want to do anything in the cups and the top 4 race this season. I'd go Kamara for hopefully circa 10m and he can fill out our squad going forward. Zakaria hasn't been the same player since his injury and Haidara probably isn't the right profile (and his alleged 33m release clause apparently doesn't kick in until the Summer).
Hard to say as I guess it depends on Salary, purchase price, monthly installments, add ons etc. I'd go nowhere near 100 million.
For the sake of conversation I'd probably go to about 65mil but again, too many variables.
I get your point but recall it's not that long ago in one summer we spent around £75m on VDB, Amad and Pellestri.
that's why that argument re Rice "ooh we can buy 3 players with what he'd cost" can be a case of the grass isn't always greener. It's how the money is invested that's the important thing. Back then I think Rice was probably in the 60 mill region. In hindsight I'd of rather we got him then than the 3 we got.Hopefully with Rangnick in, be it as manager or consultant, there will be a more measured approach to he transfer market. I'm undecided myself, I really like Rice as a player but his fee is crazy. If he was the final piece we needed, I'd say go for it but we need upgrades in other major areas as well.
Throwing your entire budget for a position at 1 English player has never worked in recent times.
Threw 80m record fee at Maguire, he's been nowhere near that level.
100m on Grealish, who, by the standards of his fee, has not been good enough.
Hell, even the 50 odd million thrown at AWB was a let down.
Now fans want us to throw 100m at Rice.
You never fecking learn. Honestly, some of you are as bad as our club's decision makers.
This is the type of nonsense that has seen the club end up in this state in the first fecking place.
Threw 80m record fee at Maguire, he's been nowhere near that level.
100m on Grealish, who, by the standards of his fee, has not been good enough.
Hell, even the 50 odd million thrown at AWB was a let down.
Now fans want us to throw 100m at Rice.
You never fecking learn. Honestly, some of you are as bad as our club's decision makers.
This is the type of nonsense that has seen the club end up in this state in the first fecking place.
Nice video I thought broken down to quarters in order of:
- Dribbling
- Passing
- Tackling
- Shooting
I have overrated players before - so I do worry if I'm doing the same for Rice but I'm a big fan of Rice because something about him just tells me he is a United player in the making. He also feels like a cheat code at times where the opposition could really struggle to go an attack "his defenders".
Interesting that WH bid 50m for Philips of Leeds, but were turned down.
Rice replacement?
Rice replacement?
Undoubtedly and as I have said previously he is a great character and influence to have around the club, which shouldn’t be underestimated given the news that broke yesterday
If his replacement cost more than 50m, then dont bother with this transfer. He is not worth more than 50m.
Those type of posts would be the ones turning to “hands up I was wrong!” Within a few months of signing for us
he’d make a huge difference to this side
he’d make a huge difference to this side
I doubt his impact will be huge, but even so, 100m is not worth it. He is not prime Modric.
He isn’t going to cost 100m. It’s West Ham not Madrid.
We did pay £80m for Maguire from Leicester and £50m for AWB from Palace?
I like Rice, he isn’t worth £100m but our transfer dealings over the last few seasons have left me sceptical about what deals we’d agree to…. though we do seem to be getting the hang of loan deals in the last few days
Because woody had a hard on
i still maintain he won’t cost 100m. Realistically 70-75m
AfterKeanetherewasRice
that’ll be your next name. You’re welcome
Is that a porn version of Toy Story?
Thanks
but no thanks, it loses the best one. Rice is a couple of levels below both, though if we do pay £100m he’ll have record fee in common.Its not my money I guess and we do need him/someone like him. It’d release the attacking players and shield the defence.
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The muppet tears when he signs for Chelsea, I’ve actually never been more certain of a player not joining us.
Unfortunately I believe we will see a hell of a lot more of Fred and McTominay again next season, especially if we keep Rangnick, who I don’t think will rock the boat that much if he’s given the permanent job…like Ole but with much better tactical nous.
Hopefully I’m completely wrong but I have zero faith in this club doing anything remotely competent in the summer.
Unfortunately I believe we will see a hell of a lot more of Fred and McTominay again next season, especially if we keep Rangnick, who I don’t think will rock the boat that much if he’s given the permanent job…like Ole but with much better tactical nous.
Hopefully I’m completely wrong but I have zero faith in this club doing anything remotely competent in the summer.
Rice is easily the best DM attainable who fits the bill young, leader, Prem proven
Starts all of WHU attacks through long balls to the wingers, breaks up all attacks through the middle, suddenly Mctominay has a couple good games he's level of rice
He plays as a CB for Scotland as he is behind Mcginn by that logic lets sign Mcginn
Starts all of WHU attacks through long balls to the wingers, breaks up all attacks through the middle, suddenly Mctominay has a couple good games he's level of rice
He plays as a CB for Scotland as he is behind Mcginn by that logic lets sign Mcginn
Anything more than 50m for Rice is too much.
Hopefully he goes to Chelsea instead of us and we sign a couple of players from Europe instead. Tired of us always over paying for average English ‘talent’
We should buy him, then we should go buy Neves.
And add in Bruno.
I think those 3 players are as good a midfield as you could get in the league and has a nice balance on paper.
And add in Bruno.
I think those 3 players are as good a midfield as you could get in the league and has a nice balance on paper.
yeah you’ll be utterly wrong with that
Is that a porn version of Toy Story?
Thanks
Its not my money I guess and we do need him/someone like him. It’d release the attacking players and shield the defence.
Well, Roy Keane for one, believes Rice is "way ahead" of himself when they were both 22. Pretty good praise coming from Roy.
He's always given himself faint praise. Still thinks his performance v Juve was just ok.
They're different players... Keane at 22 was a B2B, had played a few years with Forest, got 20-30 goals (that's not Rice's thing) and was on way to United for a record tfr fee (Rice might yet).
I think what Roy does like (as well as Rice's ability) is his temperament, attitude and leadership for a young man. He's always had a lot of time for that type of player and conversely, can't stand players who don't... a few United players for example.
Rice is a good player.
Whether good enough or not, 100% a Utd type of signing.
here’s what I see happening: we go all in for Rice, at the expense of considering viable alternatives, but are then shocked at the price tag and counter with offers that West Ham will reject out of hand. The back and forth will go on all summer, until it’s clear we have no shot and then panic buy someone at the deadline. Weeks later, Romano will talk about how United were generally surprised by West Ham’s stubbornness, and will return to Rice the following summer.
Most likely. I mean we're going to be pretty desperate in the summer so West Ham can demand a huge fee.
I can't see them selling for less than 80 which would be a ridiculous fee for him. That's the fee for a DM at their peak with many proven seasons.
Are we too chicken to buy Rice?
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