Declan Rice

Status
Not open for further replies.
crossy1686 said:
DM's aren't worth £100m even in this fecked up market so Rice is never joining for that much, I think we get him for around £60m this summer. Thought more about his comments and they're not the kind of thing you say about another club unless there's already agreements in place to move in the future. Would also explain why we're a bit hesitant to move in on another DM this window, even a cheap one.
Click to expand...

All the power is in West ham hands because his contract until 2024 + 1 year option, and I don't think they will accept less than 100m.

Personally I don't think his worth that much. I would rather take that money and bring at 2 good midfielders instead.

When I see "Declan Rice for 100m" - I see "Harry Maguire for 80m/AWB for 50m" again, It just doesn't worth it.
 
NoPace said:
Played well I thought, but we'll need a quality ball-playing #8 next to him to actually keep the ball under pressure and also to sit so he can go upfield. His best work when West Ham had possession was about his movement going up the pitch to get open so the wingers or fullbacks had an option. Not going to get open with subtle movements I don't think, more so with 5-10 yard sprints.

Basically, he's a lot like Khedira and so probably needs a Kroos or Xabi Alonso type to pair with him if we're gonna play 4-2-3-1, I think. We really should have one in a 29 year old Pogba, but we probably don't.

If he's going to be good enough to justify a huge fee here I think it's in a role where he can go forward in possession and when we're in a lower block, play as a lone DM with an 8 pressing ahead of him. Casemiro does this at times for Madrid with Kroos sitting when he goes forward, but Rice you'd want doing it even more. Also Bruno isn't Modric in terms of defending and reliability in possession.

No idea who would fit the bill, though. Frankie De Jong is my dream. Maybe Fabian Ruiz or Tielemans? Not an easy player to find, typically.
Click to expand...

That's going to be Fred. And I say that without either malice or joy.
 
Lee565 said:
He will definitely be at a big club by next year and he seems to have all the tools to exceed at being better than what carrick was for us and that is no knock at carrick either.
Click to expand...
For reals? I’ve never seen this Rice you’re talking about. A lot of fans didn’t appreciate Carrick when he was in the team, I guess it’s only gotten worse since then. Carrick was pure class.
 
He is very good but too much for a midfielder. We can pay half of that and still can sign someone good also.
 
NoPace said:
Played well I thought, but we'll need a quality ball-playing #8 next to him to actually keep the ball under pressure and also to sit so he can go upfield. His best work when West Ham had possession was about his movement going up the pitch to get open so the wingers or fullbacks had an option. Not going to get open with subtle movements I don't think, more so with 5-10 yard sprints.

Basically, he's a lot like Khedira and so probably needs a Kroos or Xabi Alonso type to pair with him if we're gonna play 4-2-3-1, I think. We really should have one in a 29 year old Pogba, but we probably don't.

If he's going to be good enough to justify a huge fee here I think it's in a role where he can go forward in possession and when we're in a lower block, play as a lone DM with an 8 pressing ahead of him. Casemiro does this at times for Madrid with Kroos sitting when he goes forward, but Rice you'd want doing it even more. Also Bruno isn't Modric in terms of defending and reliability in possession.

No idea who would fit the bill, though. Frankie De Jong is my dream. Maybe Fabian Ruiz or Tielemans? Not an easy player to find, typically.
Click to expand...
Rice doesn't look anything like Khedira to me, like not at all.
Khedira's main trait was popping up all over the pitch, for better or for worse. Rice seems very positionally reliable to me.
 
Last edited:
Lee565 said:
He will definitely be at a big club by next year and he seems to have all the tools to exceed at being better than what carrick was for us and that is no knock at carrick either.
Click to expand...

I like him as a CDM very much but the thing that separates the Rice and the top tier DM is passing range.

Carrick had a very good passing range, Declan unfortunately does not.

This weekend I watched Rodri and Fabinho in the games they played, is the reason why we are so behind, they are elite passers of a football.

Little things like the Liverpool 2nd goal, Fabinho plays a line breaking pass which opens up the pitch for the forwards. I am afraid our midfielders and Declan keep it simple pass it side ways instead of making that pass.
 
romufc said:
I like him as a CDM very much but the thing that separates the Rice and the top tier DM is passing range.

Carrick had a very good passing range, Declan unfortunately does not.

This weekend I watched Rodri and Fabinho in the games they played, is the reason why we are so behind, they are elite passers of a football.

Little things like the Liverpool 2nd goal, Fabinho plays a line breaking pass which opens up the pitch for the forwards. I am afraid our midfielders and Declan keep it simple pass it side ways instead of making that pass.
Click to expand...
They don’t all have to be like breaking passers
Liverpool won the league with Fabinho-Henderson-wijnaldum. They had various strengths but they aren’t all line breaking passers. However they played to their strengths and as a unit.

bringing rice in would improve us no end. But he’s not the solution on his own. Pair him with a neves or Tielemens or even with our own garner & Bruno. Coach them as a unit and you will see a huge difference
 
Hansi Fick said:
Rice doesn't look anything like Khedira to me, like not at all.
Khedira's main trait was popping up all over the pitch, for better or for worse. Rice seems very positionally reliable to me.
Click to expand...
The amount of times Schweinsteiger had to mop up for Khedira because he had no positional discipline at all was staggering
 
golden_blunder said:
They don’t all have to be like breaking passers
Liverpool won the league with Fabinho-Henderson-wijnaldum. They had various strengths but they aren’t all line breaking passers. However they played to their strengths and as a unit.

bringing rice in would improve us no end. But he’s not the solution on his own. Pair him with a neves or Tielemens or even with our own garner & Bruno. Coach them as a unit and you will see a huge difference
Click to expand...
Imo we need someone to play with who we have. There’s a bit too much talk of bringing in the right partner going on, it feels like Pogba all over again. I mean we can’t have Bruno dropping all the way back to cover Rices deficiencies.
 
Rice is def an upgrade on what we have got but our recent history of signing English players for a load of money, hasn’t exactly been that great….Harry, AWB, Sancho (in fairness a bit yet). I think in todays Market post COVID 80m Is a lot of money but after Villa got 100m, that’s what West Ham will want. You could probably buy 2 players potentially as good as Rice with that money.
 
golden_blunder said:
They don’t all have to be like breaking passers
Liverpool won the league with Fabinho-Henderson-wijnaldum. They had various strengths but they aren’t all line breaking passers. However they played to their strengths and as a unit.

bringing rice in would improve us no end. But he’s not the solution on his own. Pair him with a neves or Tielemens or even with our own garner & Bruno. Coach them as a unit and you will see a huge difference
Click to expand...

No I meant the DM, Fabinho is actually really good at making the passes, similar to what Matic does for us but he just cannot move around the pitch.

Like you say, pairing with the right person is key too.
 
cyberman said:
I’d argue CDM all have these kind of stats when the team puts in backs to the wall performers like today. Passes to someone within 2 yards of you because it’s such a low block is the easy pass to make.
Someone like Fred won’t be far off with his give and go under absolutely no pressure against that midfield.
West Ham did absolutely nothing through midfield today yet this reads as if Rice controlled the game.
I think I’m going mad and watched a different game today. West Ham would have been a lot better off if they held onto the ball in midfield.
Click to expand...
same. I came in here and was shocked at the praise
 
cyberman said:
Imo we need someone to play with who we have. There’s a bit too much talk of bringing in the right partner going on, it feels like Pogba all over again. I mean we can’t have Bruno dropping all the way back to cover Rices deficiencies.
Click to expand...
No we don't unless our ambition is to remain mediocre . We need atleast two starting quality midfielders irrespective of who they are unless one of the youngster stakes claim for one of the position during remainder of the season .

With Pogba most probably leaving and Van De Beek looking like another failed transfer it would be another disappointing season if We are relying on Fred or Mctominay to be anything more than Squad options.
 
golden_blunder said:
They don’t all have to be like breaking passers
Liverpool won the league with Fabinho-Henderson-wijnaldum. They had various strengths but they aren’t all line breaking passers. However they played to their strengths and as a unit.
Click to expand...
That's very true, but they compensated by having insanely good fullbacks. Trent got 4 goals and 13 assists that season they won it, Robertson did 2 goals and 12 assists.
 
Conor said:
It should be blatantly obvious to anyone with half a brain that DM is still a value position, even in the last 5 or so bonkers years of transfer prices. It's always possible to find a gem for relatively little, when compared to other positions. Spending 100m on one would be our stupidest transfer ever by far, if he doesn't work out we'd struggle to sell for 30m.
Click to expand...

100% agree. We need 2CM and a striker at minimum. Spending almost all on yet another overpriced english player is beyond stupid, but typical United if they havent learned anything yet.
 
I get the vibes of Micheal Carrick with Declan Rice. A player SAF would have bought.. while we would prefer a Frenkie De Jong etc etc. SAF would bought Rice and we'd all be moaning English Tax and whatever.
For that reason alone , i wouldn't mind spending 70m+ for him. But problem is, we'd need a couple more midfielders to replace Pogba leaving most likely in summer. and Matic being a year older. Fred is almost 30 for goodness sake.
 
Would he be an improvement on our current midfield? Yes.

Should we pay West Ham £100 million for him? Probably not.

I’m sure our scouting department could identify a few options that are better value for money.
 
SemiPro said:
Would he be an improvement on our current midfield? Yes.

Should we pay West Ham £100 million for him? Probably not.

I’m sure our scouting department could identify a few options that are better value for money.
Click to expand...
You put too much trust in our scouts!
 
You don’t go anywhere near him for 100 million, and I don’t think anyone will.

Best to wait until his contract is up and then he can pick whoever he wants.

United might be in a healthy position by then as well.
 
LawmanMan said:
Give them McTom and some cash. Would be a fixture for years.
Click to expand...

I think Rice and McTominay could make for a decent midfielder partnership. The problem we have is playing McFred as 6's when they're both much better as 8's. A midfield 3 of Rice, McTominay/Fred and Bruno would be a proper 6, 8 & 10

Now I know that's not going to please a lot of people who want this summer to be the end of McFred either ever playing for the club again but that's just unrealistic. Obviously people will want a proper Pogba replacement as well for extra creativity but that may have to wait till Tielemans is out of contract or when Dortmund are more willing to sell Bellingham
 
I genuinely don't get the praise for him, can anyone explain why he's so highly rated? He seems to me to be the DM equivalent of Maguire when he was at Leicester i.e. a good player, English and relatively young but nowhere near world class.

We need a lot more dynamism in my opinion in our CMs and DMs, we're rumoured to be trying for Kamara for about £10m to get him in Jan, he looks a better fit for how we play (or are trying to play under Ragnick) and is 1/10th of the price...
 
Red Dreams said:
Do you lads think he wants to come to us in the summer?
If we get someone this window and with Garner coming back ...and Rice, we could have a title winning midfield.
Click to expand...

Easy now. Let's just take it one step at a time. First we need a functioning midfield, that can hopefully become very good. A title winning midfield currently consists of Rodri, Gundogan and de Bruyne, in a team that has a full back float into midfield where every single player is comfortable in possession.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I genuinely don't get the praise for him, can anyone explain why he's so highly rated? He seems to me to be the DM equivalent of Maguire when he was at Leicester i.e. a good player, English and relatively young but nowhere near world class.
Click to expand...

That's a very fair assessment and why you better get used to the idea of us spending a ton of money on him in the summer
 
Hansi Fick said:
Rice doesn't look anything like Khedira to me, like not at all.
Khedira's main trait was popping up all over the pitch, for better or for worse. Rice seems very positionally reliable to me.
Click to expand...

I think a lot of that is scheme. Khedira played on progressive teams and Rice is briefed with being Makelele for England and Soucek gets the license at West Ham because he's a Fellaini type in the box and not as sound defensively and both teams are defense first.

The other option for him to do well with us is to play Fabinho's extremely defensive role and we sign another #8 or Van De Beek (or less likely Pogba) comes good and Bruno somehow fits into a 4-3-3
 
Last edited:
We have Rangnick on board now, no need to be making a 100m signing so hope we avoid. Especially as we clearly need 2 midfielders when pogba goes.
 
Someone posted a list of the most expensive transfers in PL history and in the top ten transfers the only one that's been a clear success has been Van Dijk.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Surely you don't actually think he has no flaws?
Click to expand...
I dont think he has any glaring weaknesses in his game. I never wanted Harry because I didn't think he was a big enough upgrade but Rice would walk into our midfield and immediately put Fred on the bench.
 
hellhunter said:
He's like the anti-Khedira.
Click to expand...

Jonathan Wilson, when writing for The Guardian in 2013, described Khedira as a "destroyer with carrying tendencies," namely a holding midfielder who is predominantly tasked with running, winning back possession, and distributing the ball to other players, but who is also "capable of making late runs or carrying the ball at his feet.

This is how I remember him for Madrid and obviously the quoted part is a perfect description for Rice.
 
RedKnight88 said:
I get the vibes of Micheal Carrick with Declan Rice. A player SAF would have bought.. while we would prefer a Frenkie De Jong etc etc. SAF would bought Rice and we'd all be moaning English Tax and whatever.
For that reason alone , i wouldn't mind spending 70m+ for him. But problem is, we'd need a couple more midfielders to replace Pogba leaving most likely in summer. and Matic being a year older. Fred is almost 30 for goodness sake.
Click to expand...

I could see Fergie seeing him as a Roy Keane type, but I remember Carrick at Spurs and he was better at the subtle stuff and not the athlete Rice was (he went on that crazy run against maybe Arsenal and everyone was shocked, Rice does that twice a month).
 
NoPace said:
I could see Fergie seeing him as a Roy Keane type, but I remember Carrick at Spurs and he was better at the subtle stuff and not the athlete Rice was (he went on that crazy run against maybe Arsenal and everyone was shocked, Rice does that twice a month).
Click to expand...
Yeah, remember us being linked with Marcos Senna, but bought Carrick instead. I know for a fact not all fans was happy with Carrick signing. I'll admit I wasn't too pleased. I get the same feeling with Declan Rice. 80m+ is too much though, not when we got so many players we need to sign for other areas of pitch too.
 
mu4c_20le said:
I dont think he has any glaring weaknesses in his game. I never wanted Harry because I didn't think he was a big enough upgrade but Rice would walk into our midfield and immediately put Fred on the bench.
Click to expand...
I don't think he's mobile/dynamic enough, he reminds me a bit of Gareth Barry when he was at Villa. Highly rated, good all rounder who looked excellent in a highly structured system that relied on long balls and counters with O'Neill. WHUM set up is perfect for him but put him into a top team who are offensive by nature and leave him more isolated and I'm not sure he's got the positioning/mobility to be an elite DM.

He would get into our team, for a supposedly £100m player it would be hard not to, but I think the improvement he'd offer would be minimal.
 
Not worth his fee and I honestly feel a bit bad for him on that front - as bad as you can for a well paid footballer. If WHU refuse to think about accepting something reasonable, he'll be there for the peak years of his career and never see if he could be in a club that is competing in the CL and for the big trophies (cue funny United joke, but you know what I mean).

Obviously he signed the thing, but if I were him and his agent and he does have a desire to play elsewhere it should really be this summer. WHU obviously don't have to sell, but if they do the somewhat predictable overachieve in 1st half of season, wind up in Europa conference by end then it'll be tough.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.