Declan Rice

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Robbie Boy said:
At Spurs I assume like the way he moved there at 20.
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Given your knowledge on midfielders there's no way you had a clue.

He came from Sporting at 20 so nobody was watching him regularly there as I said. When he first broke into Spurs squad I'm sure there was a bit of fuss. Nowhere near as obvious as Rice though.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
Yes because obviously that’s what I stated in the OP???:rolleyes:
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Just a stupid response to your stupid Irish quip. No idea what you’re on about. Seems the English have an obsession with Rice choosing England when I can honestly say no Irish person I know really gives a shite. The current Irish crop of Irish players are terrible and international football doesn’t interest me that much really bar tournaments.

You’re the one that seems caught up on nationalities and it’s weird. I just want the best players available to play for United and I couldn’t care less where they’re from. From the current Irish set-up there’s literally one player I would want here and that’s Doherty. That’s only if it were a toss up between him and Munier, though. My first choice would be Wan-Bissaka.

So maybe your confusing me for a poster with some Irish bias or you’re deliberately being a dick, I don’t know which it is. I just thought I would humour your stupid post with an equally stupid one. Maybe stop getting so caught up on nationalities and actually want what’s best for the club, i.e. the best players. If you think me not rating Rice has anything to do with his nationality then you’re a very sad, narrow minded individual.
 
JJ12 said:
Shown a lack of knowledge throughout. Saying we need a style similar to Rodri, Ndidi and Ndombele.

3 completely different players :lol:.
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Maybe in how they play the game but all play at the base of their midfields, which is the Matic role in our team.
 
JJ12 said:
Given your knowledge on midfielders there's no way you had a clue.

He came from Sporting at 20 so nobody was watching him regularly there as I said. When he first broke into Spurs squad I'm sure there was a bit of fuss. Nowhere near as obvious as Rice though.
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I’m thankful I don’t have your vastly inferior knowledge.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Just a stupid response to your stupid Irish quip. No idea what you’re on about. Seems the English have an obsession with Rice choosing England when I can honestly say no Irish person I know really gives a shite. The current Irish crop of Irish players are terrible and international football doesn’t interest me that much really bar tournaments.

You’re the one that seems caught up on nationalities and it’s weird. I just want the best players available to play for United and I couldn’t care less where they’re from. From the current Irish set-up there’s literally one player I would want here and that’s Doherty. That’s only if it were a toss up between him and Munier, though. My first choice would be Wan-Bissaka.

So maybe your confusing me for a poster with some Irish bias or you’re deliberately being a dick, I don’t know which it is. I just thought I would humour your stupid post with an equally stupid one. Maybe stop getting so caught up on nationalities and actually want what’s best for the club, i.e. the best players. If you think me not rating Rice has anything to do with his nationality then you’re a very sad, narrow minded individual.
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Oh e
Robbie Boy said:
Just a stupid response to your stupid Irish quip. No idea what you’re on about. Seems the English have an obsession with Rice choosing England when I can honestly say no Irish person I know really gives a shite. The current Irish crop of Irish players are terrible and international football doesn’t interest me that much really bar tournaments.

You’re the one that seems caught up on nationalities and it’s weird. I just want the best players available to play for United and I couldn’t care less where they’re from. From the current Irish set-up there’s literally one player I would want here and that’s Doherty. That’s only if it were a toss up between him and Munier, though. My first choice would be Wan-Bissaka.

So maybe your confusing me for a poster with some Irish bias or you’re deliberately being a dick, I don’t know which it is. I just thought I would humour your stupid post with an equally stupid one. Maybe stop getting so caught up on nationalities and actually want what’s best for the club, i.e. the best players. If you think me not rating Rice has anything to do with his nationality then you’re a very sad, narrow minded individual.
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Am I caught up in nationalities? Shame you can’t read

You seem to have some issues over ‘Irishness ‘ or whatever. Can you work them out elsewhere or get some therapy maybe?
 
Inigo Montoya said:
Oh e

Am I caught up in nationalities? Shame you can’t read

You seem to have some issues over ‘Irishness ‘ or whatever. Can you work them out elsewhere or get some therapy maybe?
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I said Diop is great. You said something about him being Irish. Go figure.
 
Decent performance today but I can see him being slaughtered on here if he signed for United
 
Ekeke said:
If we go to a 2 in midfield yes thats what we need. And in that case Rice is a fine passer and good dribbler, but at 20 he's obviously not as good as the Carrick you remember in his prime. But he's better than Carrick at 20.

If we continue with a 3 man midfield and continue using Pogba as such an offensive player, then we need a new DM who can be as active winning the ball as Ander. The 3rd man in midfield can be the player who dictates play on the ball and defends a bit to help that DM. In theory maybe Fred could be that player, but hes unproven so far.
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Carrick is a different player from Declan. Carrick is similar to Alonso, maybe not as good but he was a playmaker. I actually liked Madrid 3-man midfield of Alonso, Modric and Khedira/Di Maria better than their recent midfield of Casemiro, Modric and Kroos. And I actually thought Juve's midfield of Pirlo, Marchiso and Vidal matched Barca's midfield in the CL final match, regardless of Pirlo's age and if it wasn't for Tevez wastefulness in front of goal, Juve could have won the match.

I once made a post on why I would prefer the former midfield to the latter. The first midfield ensures the play is much more spread round from the back to the attack when you have a playmaking no 6 like Alonso/Pirlo in front of the defence and another mobile playmaking one such as Modric/Marchiso situated upfield. Some coach who don't have a playmaker at the midfield base would at least have a recycler like Busquet, Frenkie, Winks to ensure complete domination in the midfield. Even Fernandinho could be categorised as a recycler because he's quite good on the ball and has got good passing range to ensure quick build up and transition for City's Silva and de bruyne and I think that was the reason pep has been using Gundogan in the same role although Gundogan isn't as defensively and positioning solid as Fernandinho.

Kaglish10 said:
Like I said, I don't fancy his sort of player.

Personally, I prefer Juve's 3-man midfield set up of Pirlo, Marchiso and Vidal than Madrid's midfield of Casemiro, Modric and Kroos because the two playmakers in the first set up are much more spread out in the midfield than the second, that is, Pirlo would help in building up and dictating the play from deep while Marchiso would do his, further up in the midfield and they would all be complemented by an all action workhorse such as Vidal.

Same setup was also employed by Mourinho when he had Alonso, Granero and Khedira in his midfield at Madrid. I actually think Mourinho stumbled upon it midway into the season and seeing how impressive it was, he had no option than to move Ozil to the right wing to accommodate such midfield. I can say that during the course of it, Madrid went unbeaten and accumulated so many points and also scored so many goals to win the league ahead of Barca, with lots goal scored by them. However in the following season, Mourinho allowed Granero leave and the player (Modric) signed to replace him was hardly utilised until Ancelotti was brought in.

Ancelotti employed same tactics with a 3-man midfield of Alonso, Modric and Khedira but unfortunately, Khedira got injured hence Madrid faltered for a while and the coach had to try out di Maria, who deputised for the injured Khedira in the midfield. It actually worked out for Madrid and that led to their winning of the CL. But unfortunately, Madrid lost Alonso who didn't want to extend his contract because he had wanted to leave Madrid in high spirit and there was Di Maria who wanted a hefty pay rise and Madrid had no option than to bin him. I wish we could do same to the mercenaries in our team. Anyway, Kroos was brought in to replace Alonso but Kroos is more of a playmaking no 8 than a playmaking 6 hence Madrid had to bring in a defensive no 6 like Casemiro to accommodate the two no 8 they have in Kroos and Modric but this midfield wasn't as impressive as the former because Modric and Kroos had to constantly drop deep to progress the play. Even Madrid's president was initially adamant about this and had wanted the coach to continue to utilise Kroos in the no 6 role until it became visibly evident that Kroos couldn't operate in the role.

I think it's a similar thing Sarri is trying to employ at Chelsea however, Jorginho is more of a recycler such as Busquet and also, Chelsea don't have a playmaking no 8 such as Modric or Marchiso they could deploy further up the pitch to work in tandem with Jorginho who's operating deeper.
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RooneyLegend said:
Maybe in how they play the game but all play at the base of their midfields, which is the Matic role in our team.
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Rodri and Ndidi would. Ndombele would be in the Herrera position.

In any case @Robbie Boy said the same style rather than position which is completely inaccurate on all fronts.
 
JJ12 said:
Good one :lol:
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Maybe go back and and read thread. I’m talking about the style of player I want at the base. Stylistically I would compare Rice to Dier. The rest are just better players and the style of player I want to see in there. Feel free to carry on with your weird crusade I’ll keep coming back.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Maybe go back and and read thread. I’m talking about the style of player I want at the base. Stylistically I would compare Rice to Dier. The rest are just better players and the style of player I want to see in there. Feel free to carry on with your weird crusade I’ll keep coming back.
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But again you are wrong.

The 3 you mentioned are completely different in style. Rodri and Ndidi play in the same position but very different in styles. Ndombele is more box 2 box so has no bearing on that position.
 
JJ12 said:
But again you are wrong.

The 3 you mentioned are completely different in style. Rodri and Ndidi play in the same position but very different in styles. Ndombele is more box 2 box so has no bearing on that position.
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Nope, Ndombele played 12 games at the base this season and he’s well capable. Yes, their overall styles vary and Ndidi would be the most similar to Rice, but for me, we need players like these 3 who all share some similar attributes. I never said they all play the same style, either. These are the players I personally want. I see Rice as more of a destroyer and I don’t like nor do I want that kind of player. It’s similar to the player Mourinho moulded Matic into and I have zero interest. We need dynamic midfielders that are all capable of winning the ball back and the three I mentioned can all do that, even if their specific skill-sets may vary to a certain degree. I’m not sure how there’s so much of a misunderstanding here.

I get it, some rate Rice and that style of player. I don’t and quite frankly I never really have. The closest for me was Makelele, who in all honesty was one of a kind. After that, the kind of dynamic ball winners that excited me were players like peak Essien.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Nope, Ndombele played 12 games at the base this season and he’s well capable. Yes, their overall styles vary and Ndidi would be the most similar to Rice, but for me, we need players like these 3 who all share some similar attributes. I never said they all play the same style, either. These are the players I personally want. I see Rice as more of a destroyer and I don’t like nor do I want that kind of player. It’s similar to the player Mourinho moulded Matic into and I have zero interest. We need dynamic midfielders that are all capable of winning the ball back and the three I mentioned can all do that, even if their specific skill-sets may vary to a certain degree. I’m not sure how there’s so much of a misunderstanding here.

I get it, some rate Rice and that style of player. I don’t and quite frankly I never really have. The closest for me was Makelele, who in all honesty was one of a kind. After that, the kind of dynamic ball winners that excited me were players like peak Essien.
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So Ndombele was capable of playing in a position only 12 times for Lyon and you think that's what we need at our base? A player clearly better suited for a different role.

The confusion is the fact that you said they were the style of player you want (when they don't have the same style) and now back tracking saying they have similar attributes but play differently.

It all depends on what system Ole wants to play - no point buying players then choosing his system. Should be buying players with a clear plan.

We shall see.
 
JJ12 said:
So Ndombele was capable of playing in a position only 12 times for Lyon and you think that's what we need at our base? A player clearly better suited for a different role.

The confusion is the fact that you said they were the style of player you want (when they don't have the same style) and now back tracking saying they have similar attributes but play differently.

It all depends on what system Ole wants to play - no point buying players then choosing his system. Should be buying players with a clear plan.

We shall see.
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Nope, I’m stating that Ndombele is equally adept in both roles. The second paragraph will further allude to what I specifically mean.

You see, I don’t feel we specifically need a player ‘at the base’. All three can play either DM or in a CM three. I would be more than happy to have a midfield three with one of those in the centre of it that could drop deeper if needed. Then in games where we are dominating possession, they can take up a slightly more advanced role. I don’t feel Rice has this in his repertoire as he still smacks of a CB converted into a DM, much like Dier, which is why I draw parallels between the two. If you can’t see why two young CB’s that were both converted in defensive shields early in their careers would draw parallels, then that’s not my fault.

I can’t be backtracking because I never said they are all the same style. It’s not my fault you misunderstood my meaning. I feel I may have offended you somehow and you’ve been baying for blood since. I stated these are the style of players I want and the ones I feel would be best for our midfield. As I said, stylistically they may vary, but all can do what Rice can do but they’re technically better and far more dynamic bar Ndidi. Now, Ndidi is more dynamic than Rice but nowhere near as much as the other two.
 
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JJ12 said:
So Ndombele was capable of playing in a position only 12 times for Lyon and you think that's what we need at our base? A player clearly better suited for a different role.

The confusion is the fact that you said they were the style of player you want (when they don't have the same style) and now back tracking saying they have similar attributes but play differently.

It all depends on what system Ole wants to play - no point buying players then choosing his system. Should be buying players with a clear plan.

We shall see.
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:lol:
 
Hawks2008 said:
Don't get the arguments that he'd help us counter attack. Yeah he might win the ball back but what's the point if he cannot use it effectively? It was the same nonsense when Matic came in how he would 'give a platform' and 'free up our other midfielders'. As we saw with Matic, Rice will win the ball and then our more advanced players have to drop deep to even collect the ball and then our attacks are starting 10-20 yards deeper and we have a whole team to play through. A better passer is needed there unless we go with a true ball playing CB.
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Matic does not win and move the ball as effectively as Rice does. Matic is too slow at pretty much everything.
 
JJ12 said:
Rodri and Ndidi would. Ndombele would be in the Herrera position.

In any case @Robbie Boy said the same style rather than position which is completely inaccurate on all fronts.
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Ndombele played at the base of the Lyon midfield against the likes of Barca and City. I think it's easily his best role given how good he is under pressure.
 
Aloysius's Back 3 said:
I don't really see what's funny about it.

Ndombele asked to guard the defence as a CDM is getting rid of some his strengths like his dribbling from box to box.
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Exactly - it's not his best position.
 
Loublaze said:
Decent performance today but I can see him being slaughtered on here if he signed for United
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I’ve alluded to this. If we had him and went through this kind of run of form, he would be annihilated. An infinitely more talented player in Pogba is crucified on here so I can only imagine what would be said of a limited player like Rice. It wouldn’t be pretty.
 
Robbie Boy said:
I’ve alluded to this. If we had him and went through this kind of run of form, he would be annihilated. An infinitely more talented player in Pogba is crucified on here so I can only imagine what would be said of a limited player like Rice. It wouldn’t be pretty.
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That’s the problem with the caf but I suspect coaches etc don’t pay much heed to what’s said in social media. I mean as an example Ronaldo was slaughtered as being a one trick pony for 2 seasons. If SAF had read and believed the overreaction on forums, he’d have been out after 2 years
 
Inigo Montoya said:
That’s the problem with the caf but I suspect coaches etc don’t pay much heed to what’s said in social media. I mean as an example Ronaldo was slaughtered as being a one trick pony for 2 seasons. If SAF had read and believed the overreaction on forums, he’d have been out after 2 years
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Obviously, I’m just stating that it’s a point I’ve also alluded to.
 
johanovic said:
So Young,Darmian,Valencia,Rojo,Jones,Matic,Fred,Bailly,Sanchez,Lukaku do not make you lose hope but signing Rice that showed once again today against Spurs what a good player he is would make you lose hope. A young leader, gives an huge effort every time I see him play and does the donkey work the primadonnas like Pogba are not botherd to do. We are leaking goals and need a DM plus he gives a midfield that´s constantly overworked added steel and stamina. Every top team has a player that does this work in order to carry the so called flair players.
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I dont like any of those players and want them all gone. My point is we are getting rid of all these useless players and potentially replacing them with more useless players. Thats what makes me lose hope re starting the cycle of mediocrity. If pogba isnt willing to do the "donkey work" then he can go too. At City there are midfielders even better than Pogba who have no issue working hard for the team (Bernardo, De bruyne, Silva).

If we can get him for under 40 million im ok with getting Rice. If West Ham asks more than that then in all honesty i would rather us spend that type of money on Ndombele or Bruno Fernandes
 
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