I read about an article yesterday saying that they were grooming Hannibal to take over when Pogba leaves. He might be the one
Declan Rice
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There's been a couple of articles like this:
https://www.blamefootball.com/2021/...-is-developing-into-a-paul-pogba-replacement/
All are quoting The Athletic as original source though (I don't have subscription):
https://theathletic.com/2811609/202...field-as-he-makes-effort-to-stay-disciplined/
But basically what it's saying, is that he has been developing physically and they think he could and should make the switch from AM to CM. However me being skeptic, I think it'll take some time and experience to adjust to that role. The deeper you play, the different skillset you need. Dribbling, shooting, one-twos become less important (but not unimportant ofc) when you play as #8 or #6. Reading the play, intercepting balls, tracking runners, long range passing ability...they become increasingly important. Pogba himself is struggling to play in a 2-man midfield at the top level, without making our midfield porous. I don't know about Mejbri.
Disclaimer: I haven't watched him much to have an opinion on the breadth of his skillset.
This has always been the biggest issue with Rice imo, much like with Maguire when we bought him we don't have a partner that balances out his qualities. The idea of Rice and McTominay as our main midfield duo is very disheartening.
I think Hannibal looks a great prospect but we are going to need someone inbetween given he's not even in the senior squad yet and Pogba in a midfield 2 doesn't work.
He’s decent but his 100m valuation is absolutely insane. He’s a 35-40m player
I think the plan is to pair him with someone like rice so that he has the defensive protection to grow with experience
He’s not. Given today’s prices 30m buys you a championship player. I’d say he’s more 50+ currently but if he keeps taking chances to show he’s more than people credit him for it will be 60-70m by next summer
It could get messy at West Ham for him, his contract is until 2024 I think on 60k. He's a full england international, he's looking around at guys like Sancho and Grealish, players not yet what you'd call definite starters for England getting the big moves and pay days. Perhaps a bit like Kane regrets at signing such a long contract.
To answer this question using fbref scouting report. The stats come from games played in the last 365 days and compare him to all the players in Europe's top 5 leagues in his position. If you're in the 1st percentile you're the worst at the action in your position from those 5 leagues and if you're in the 99th percentile you're the best.
https://fbref.com/en/players/1c7012b8/scout/365_euro/Declan-Rice-Scouting-Report
Ball winning / tackling: He makes 2.26 tackles per game which is in the 54th percentile so bang average. He makes 2.26 interceptions per 90 which puts him in the 96th percentile so in the elite bracket in this regard. For tackles and interceptions combined he's in the 78th percentile so very good. He's in the 93rd percentile for fouls conceded so rarely gives away freekicks.
Heading: He contests a higher average number of aerial duals and is successful 61.2% of the time which puts him in the 86th percentile so is excellent in this area.
Passing: This has been his weakness in recent seasons with pass completion strong in the 80th percentile but passing range and pass type being average. At the start of this season he's significantly improved all these areas so it will be interesting to see how well he can keep it up.
Touch/technique/skill: For miscontrols he's in the 63rd percentile so in the higher average bracket and for dispossessions slightly higher in the 71st percentile. His strength on the ball is dribbling and progressing play through that method. He's in the 97% percentile for dribble completion so elite and in the mid 80s percentile for progression stats so excellent in this regard.
Shooting: He falls into the average range for stats relating to this.
Attitude: He's a bubbly and popular character who was captaining West Ham aged 20 so fair to say this is a strong area for him.
Pace/physical: He's strong in this area whilst not elite, see his goal last night.
he's already £60million +
Club has an option for one more year, so 2025. It's his fault for signing a ridiculous lengthy contract extension at a young age. West Ham is in the right to ask for a stupid transfer fee. He's going to be stuck there for at least two more seasons.
They are not English, and automatically not worth 80m which also makes people underrate how good the actual player is. None of Kanté, Fernandinho,, Ndidi, Bissouma , Kessié, Jorginho is a better CDM that Rice is at this moment.
Mate how much have we paid for someone like Fred? Why would West Ham sell for any less that 80m for example?
Possibly is, I just think people saying 35-40m aren’t realistic
Far from it?
We flogged James for 25m. So you think for 10-15m more you can get Rice. Yeah good luck with that.
We spent £73m for the hottest creative attacking talent in Europe (Sancho) who was also English. Spending that or more for a DM seems bonkers to me.
It a position where there’s half a dozen players or more to pick from. Bissouma, NDidi, Palhinha, Bennacer, Tchouameni, Brozovic, Neves, Boubacar Kamara… Most would cost below 40m.
I don’t think spending over 60m on Rice is justified imo. But hey ho. We’ll see what happens.
It a position where there’s half a dozen players or more to pick from. Bissouma, NDidi, Palhinha, Bennacer, Tchouameni, Brozovic, Neves, Boubacar Kamara… Most would cost below 40m.
I don’t think spending over 60m on Rice is justified imo. But hey ho. We’ll see what happens.
If we sign this guy we getting no change out of 80million, his stock will rise further this year.
Nevermind how good we think he is, if a club buys Rice, it will be a club who could win the PL. So it would be natural to put him up against other DMs at clubs that could win the PL. That gives us three players
Fabinho - £40 mill (2018)
Jorginho - £60 mill (2018)
Rodri - £60 mill (2019)*
Rodri had a release clause and would have been more expensive without it. Liverpool made a great purchase of Fabinho, and you could probably argue that £60 mill is a good benchmark for a DM. Given that there was no inflation. Which is probably not the case.
Add to it that there probably is a premium for a young, english PL-proven player. With multiple caps for England.
Compared to someone like Jorginho there is probably a premium because of age too. Jorginho was 26 at the time. Rice will be 23. The premium will be related to getting a player for a longer period of time, but also potential (younger players often have more room to develop).
So, if a benchmark is £60 mill, I would probably expect minimum £80 mill for Rice.
Fabinho - £40 mill (2018)
Jorginho - £60 mill (2018)
Rodri - £60 mill (2019)*
Rodri had a release clause and would have been more expensive without it. Liverpool made a great purchase of Fabinho, and you could probably argue that £60 mill is a good benchmark for a DM. Given that there was no inflation. Which is probably not the case.
Add to it that there probably is a premium for a young, english PL-proven player. With multiple caps for England.
Compared to someone like Jorginho there is probably a premium because of age too. Jorginho was 26 at the time. Rice will be 23. The premium will be related to getting a player for a longer period of time, but also potential (younger players often have more room to develop).
So, if a benchmark is £60 mill, I would probably expect minimum £80 mill for Rice.
But he lacks:
We need better on the ball in midfield, not better defending.
Yes.
If Grealish went for 100M, then I'd say he's worth 60-70m
This is hilarious. Have you ever watched Kanté?
I don't disagree that Rice's price is his main problem but you're basically saying he's the best DM in the world!
Can't say I really agree with that. We need someone who does twice as much defensive work as most midfielders if we want someone to partner Pogba. If you buy Rice you'll end up having to play him next to Fred or McTominay anyway most of the time so slightly defeats the object of signing a DM. If you're fecking Pogba off anyway then arguably we don't really need a DM, we just need an improvement on Fred/McT.
For me Rice is the most defensive player we can buy. Playing Rice and Mctominay in a double pivot is way too defensive.
Tell Rice to shield our back 4
Rice
Shaw - Maguire - Varane - AWB
and no matter the quality of tactics the opposition isn't going to find it easy.Shaw - Maguire - Varane - AWB
Why Grealish was a match winner for Villa consistently vs a competent midfielder…
I think we have the solution already at the club and can use VdB as the inbetween. But that depends on Solskjaer and how he wants to construct the midfield. We also don't know what will happen with Pogba. But I think having a player like Rice next to Hannibal could really help him.
But I do believe we need a midfielder with Rice's profile who is strong defensively and can also keep the game ticking whilst being strong on either foot. He's also someone that looks to have the attributes to defend large spaces in the event of a counter attack, which is something we lack in our team when playing with more risk and committing more players forward. And he would also provide us a real possibility of playing a 4-3-3 formation aswell.
He is gonna be expensive but I can see both United and Chelsea being in the mix. And there's also been reports that Declan Rice isn't happy with the valuation West Ham have placed on him.
I think the club that misses out on Rice (United or Chelsea) will possibly end up signing Aurelien Tchouameni from Monaco.
Yeah can't say I agree with that. I think most people wouldn't mind having a go at that if Pogba and Bruno were pushed up.
Have you? He barely plays because of injury or gets minutes as substitute, or when he plays he is no CDM.This is hilarious. Have you ever watched Kanté?
I don't disagree that Rice's price is his main problem but you're basically saying he's the best DM in the world!
Casemiro, Fabinho and Kimmich are the best CDMs in the world for some years in different periods.
I don’t think Kante is a pure defensive mid is yeh point that is being made. Whether you like him or not Rice is much more in the mould of those others players, i.e Fabinho, Fernandinho, Casemiro, rather than being a box to box defensive mid like Kante. I’d argue in that Chelsea side, Jorginho is the deepest midfielder and then Kante provides the legs beside him (best in the world at that job). Kante is world class at his job, but he’s not a better number 6 than Rice.
I don’t think Kante is a pure defensive mid is yeh point that is being made. Whether you like him or not Rice is much more in the mould of those others players, i.e Fabinho, Fernandinho, Casemiro, rather than being a box to box defensive mid like Kante. I’d argue in that Chelsea side, Jorginho is the deepest midfielder and then Kante provides the legs beside him (best in the world at that job). Kante is world class at his job, but he’s not a better number 6 than Rice, he’s just not that player.
I do see some similarities to Carrick.
Which brings us back to the original point. He's not worth more than that, defensive players never are.
They aren't getting more than 50/60m at a real push. If they want more then look elsewhere. Plenty of young talented players available for less.
We all hope so, but as pointed out, it's a tough position for a young player to come into. But someone like Rice who is defensively strong and disciplined would potentially be someone who will help Hannibal, who will likely have teething problems IMO.
But personally I'm dreaming of seeing a 3 man midfield again with the acquision of Rice or someone of a similar profile. I think a extra CM in a deeper role would best suit Hannibal and even Pogba.
I think we will spend that and more on him because like Maguire he fits Ole's vision of a key player in the spine of the team - young, English, stable and likely to stay for the long haul. With Ronaldo around we won't be making a big money move on a striker next season unless he suddenly breaks down on us in which case we will just put it all our hopes in the Greenwood basket.
Rice is our next big signing if Ole is still in the job next summer that's a given.
Rice actually is a much better fit than Maguire IMO. He potentially fits into both a more conservative approach aswell as a more attacking one, due to his ability to read the game and defend large spaces rather than just a space which is what we see in structured defensive blocks with each player defending a zone/space.
He's also someone that is very good on the ball for a defensive midfielder IMO. He's never gonna have a passing range like a Marco Verratti for example but he's good at what he does and helps progress play by recycling the ball comfortably with either foot which for me is very impressive for a player playing in such a role which requires a lot of discipline. Players like Verratti also require more defensive minded players next to them hence PSG have several players who come into the team to provide defensive balance which helps the like of Verratti to play their game without being overly burdened defensively.
I also hope he has a poor game against us on Sunday, and if that happens I'm sure we'll here how poor he has been.
He's also someone that is very good on the ball for a defensive midfielder IMO. He's never gonna have a passing range like a Marco Verratti for example but he's good at what he does and helps progress play by recycling the ball comfortably with either foot which for me is very impressive for a player playing in such a role which requires a lot of discipline. Players like Verratti also require more defensive minded players next to them hence PSG have several players who come into the team to provide defensive balance which helps the like of Verratti to play their game without being overly burdened defensively.
I also hope he has a poor game against us on Sunday, and if that happens I'm sure we'll here how poor he has been.
Would cost us £80m+
The problem is that if Pogba leaves next summer it’s highly likely we’ll need a playmaking CM as well. Spunking all the budget on Rice, it doesn’t seem wise.
PS.I think Bissouma would also fit us like a glove
You've just underlined my point. If he's priced at 100 then Rice should go for 70m. And he's a bit more than competent.
Thanks for posting this. I'm not usually one for using stats to figure out a player and his playing style. I usually prefer the old eye test however those stats do seem to give a good description of his strengths and weaknesses.
I don't get to watch much apart from Utd games these days so can't say I've followed him at all. The price tag was putting me off as I initially thought he was fairly average. However reading the posts here I'm beginning to get on board this train. I do think we need someone who can really provide a security blanket for us.
Roy Keane was so good for us in sniffing out danger and I can see bits of Keane and some of Carrick in this guy.
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