And yet Kanté wins the ball more than all of them. I thought that was quite a key attribute for a DM myself.
Declan Rice
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And yet Kanté wins the ball more than all of them. I thought that was quite a key attribute for a DM myself.
VVD? Anyway it doesn't really matter what anyone thinks he is worth. West ham value him a lot and wont sell him for under 50m.
That’s a very reductive way of looking at it though. Fred statistically wins the ball more than many of them because he’s given the role to go and hunt the ball/man rather than managing the space. A proper number 6 as I see it doesn’t need massive defensive stats of tackles they just need to have good positional awareness and ideally good distribution. I just think you are confusing Kantes role somewhat.
So Ole wanted Rice this summer but the board refused to pay the money West Ham asked for and signed Ronaldo instead and so we still have a big gap in midfield.
Just like Pep wanted Kane but didnt get anything.
He should deal with it. No manage got every they wanted, Tuchel did not get Kounde despite selling off Zouma.
There are no excuses, we should roll over most teams and not surrender midfield battle to them.
It all boils down to a coach devoid of ideas and relying on individual brilliance.
Poor bloke has to make do with Ronaldo.
Well in hindsight to Pep, he would have been better spending £100m on some fans, rather than chasing Kane.
He is isn't he,is he bitching about it.
Yet Declan Rice is like in the top 99th of interceptions and you don't see him as much of a CDM. Just saying.
This applies to many people here. It's just that they don't admit it.
@Adnan
Glad that your speaking a bit well about him because I feel like your one of the Scouts of this forum aren't you?
Have you changed your mind on him- if so what made you change your mind? Or were you always okay with him just a bit off put by the cost (which is a thing of the past once a transfer has been done anyway ie Maguire, Pogba, Sancho and then Rice).
Glad that your speaking a bit well about him because I feel like your one of the Scouts of this forum aren't you?
Have you changed your mind on him- if so what made you change your mind? Or were you always okay with him just a bit off put by the cost (which is a thing of the past once a transfer has been done anyway ie Maguire, Pogba, Sancho and then Rice).
Caf scouts is just a terminology for folks who look out for good newbies. nothing to do with being real life football talent spotters
No you are wrong. Caf scouts are real life football talent spotters and caf staff are Ole's coaching staff.
We are awfully coached team, wonder what might be the reason.
No I wasn't talking about that type of scout on this forum.
Adnan talks about new players alot of the time here, so I assume he watches alot of football.
I've been very critical of him on here and on other threads relating him, but the one thing I've notice about this guy is he keeps improving everytime .
Having Watched him all the way, I'm not really sure if he can improve us like say De Jong would at controlling possession whilst also quickening the tempo when needed, His price tag is another problem, for 100m we can get in two different type of midfielders to replace Mata and Matic.
Having Watched him all the way, I'm not really sure if he can improve us like say De Jong would at controlling possession whilst also quickening the tempo when needed, His price tag is another problem, for 100m we can get in two different type of midfielders to replace Mata and Matic.
Fred/McT-Pogba
This midfield doesnt fail because of defensive ability. This midfield fails because its not press resistant. Our midfield lacks two things : someone with good positional sense, someone with great passing ability to control the game. Fred/McT are box to box ball winners, and Pogba is an AM roleplaying as a DLP. Matic is that player, but he's old.
Teams press Pogba, and leave McT/Fred free, knowing they cant harm them with the ball. Newcastle tried doing this too, that's why Matic played so well. And that's why Matic is a great partner for Pogba, he just doesnt have legs anymore.
And that's why Rice wouldnt be a good partner for Pogba, like many think he would be. Rice is a great ball winner, but the problem with our midfield is not ball winning, or shielding our back 4. If we want a partner for Pogba, we need someone like Matic but with legs. A good passer. Ideally we would not have Pogba at CM though, and we should look for a partner for Mct/Fred, who should also not be Rice. Someone like Carrick, who has good positional ability and passing, would be perfect tbh. If Rice can add some passing ability to his game, he would be a great fit for us.
This midfield doesnt fail because of defensive ability. This midfield fails because its not press resistant. Our midfield lacks two things : someone with good positional sense, someone with great passing ability to control the game. Fred/McT are box to box ball winners, and Pogba is an AM roleplaying as a DLP. Matic is that player, but he's old.
Teams press Pogba, and leave McT/Fred free, knowing they cant harm them with the ball. Newcastle tried doing this too, that's why Matic played so well. And that's why Matic is a great partner for Pogba, he just doesnt have legs anymore.
And that's why Rice wouldnt be a good partner for Pogba, like many think he would be. Rice is a great ball winner, but the problem with our midfield is not ball winning, or shielding our back 4. If we want a partner for Pogba, we need someone like Matic but with legs. A good passer. Ideally we would not have Pogba at CM though, and we should look for a partner for Mct/Fred, who should also not be Rice. Someone like Carrick, who has good positional ability and passing, would be perfect tbh. If Rice can add some passing ability to his game, he would be a great fit for us.
I'm not sure about being one of the scouts for the forum mate, but there is some good members on here who are better than me when evaluating player potential. But it's never easy to get everything correct and even the real scouts who reportedly watch up to 400 games every season, make mistakes.
I've actually always liked Declan Rice and you will find posts of mine dating back several years which attest to that. But I just felt in the transfer window just gone, we as a team were best suited to bringing in a midfielder who could help us connect defense to attack and be that metronome who could drop in as a #6, aswell as get forward and contribute in offensive transition to a high level as a #8. But as soon as the window closed, I changed my mind and felt it was more beneficial for us to bring in a anchor like Rice or Tchouameni next year and develop Hannibal Mejbri for the role next to the anchor. I don't know for sure how Hannibal would take to first team football but I'm intrigued to find out and having a strong defensive anchor would help him imo. I also can't see us signing both a anchor and a midfield playmaker in the same window, so i'm of the opinion that we now should look to develop the midfield playmaker from within and look for a midfield anchor externally.
There's also different ways the player at the base of midfield can be deployed depending on the attributes of the player. Busquets for example who imo is one of the greatest holding midfielders I've ever seen, plays the role differently to how Casemiro plays it due to having a different individual skillset. And their respective clubs also have different ways on how they approach games via their style of play, which suits either player and both approaches have been very successful.
Rice is more Casemiro and less Busquets IMO. But what it comes down to is the composition of the midfield and it's function. We can bring in Tchouameni or Rice but if we pair either player up with Fred or McTominay then I can't see us being a team who will control phases of play through possession play. So i'm hoping we give Hannibal minutes soon, which could give us a idea on how far he is to potentially being a answer for us in the role next to the midfield anchor. And in todays game it's important to control games with and without the ball IMO.
We play the McFred midfield because neither of them can do the job of shielding the back four on their own. So buying a DLP type to pair with either of them is asking for the same problems we’ve had trying to pair them with Pogba in the past.
Also Matic is as overrated on the ball as Rice is underrated. Matic has this horrible habit of running around with the ball taking five touches before playing the obvious pass and dragging himself out of position in the process. He’s done it his entire career. It baffles me how he’s rated so.
Meanwhile Rice is very press resistant due to good touch and being much more incisive in his passing with both feet. He also switches play and hits quick diagonals more frequently and to greater effect. And he runs with the ball as well or better than Matic ever did.
Declan Rice is seriously underrated on this forum.
The problem with this is, this kind of setup doesnt suit either Fred or McT. And they are the only pure CMs we have. Pogba/VdB future is unsure, and Matic is gonna leave soon. If we adopt this setup, Mjebri and Rice would be the only CMs we have, and we would need to buy another 2 CMs. Also Mjebri as a CM experiment is a huge ? like you said.
I'd argue the exact opposite, since we have lots of people asking for us to pay 80-100M for Rice, and almost no one who says Matic is a good midfielder anymore. So I would say Rice is overrated and Matic is underrated. Anyway...
We play the McFred midfield because they are our only pure CMs, and our only partnership which is somewhat succesful. VdB and Pogba are not really CMs, and Matic is over the hill. Neither McT or Fred are "shielding the backfour" type players, they are box to box ball winners like say Fletcher or Marchisio. We had a midfield of Fletcher-Scholes, and that didnt need a "shield" either. Kante is also such a box to box ball winner who doesnt "shield the defence".
I can turn around what you said, and say the same thing that "we play McFred because we dont have an elite DLP". To think of midfield as one player doing all the attacking, and one player doing all the defending is overly-simplistic. If that was so box to box players wouldnt exist. Truth is McFred are limited players, but they are the most natural ones we have right now. You can pair Pogba with someone who can "shield the back 4 on their own" and it would still not be a press resistant midfield, unless that midfielder is a good passer. Pogba is not a DLP, he cannot control games.
If we pair McT/Fred with Thiago/Jorginho, I can guarantee that would be a great midfield. You have the legs and ball winning ability of Fred, with the passing and positional ability of Jorginho.
I think it would still suit them because we'd still be using a 4-2-3-1 formation. The only difference being we'd potentially have a young metronome playing in a two instead of two combative players.
We also have a few midfielders out on loan like Garner and Galbraith who may or may not be deemed ready. But Garner will be 21; by the start of next season and Solskjaer may bring him into the rotation.
@Adnan
I'm not the type to watch alot of reserve football-
But I've heard the potential of Garner, Galbraith and Hannibal as being our creative player/playmaker type players of the future.
I'm not seeing anyone coming up who is a ball winner or a shielded who is talked about the same level.
Is there anyone you know in our reserves that indicates we don't need someone like Rice and just need patience - which maybe the case with something like a deep lying playmaker?
I'm not the type to watch alot of reserve football-
But I've heard the potential of Garner, Galbraith and Hannibal as being our creative player/playmaker type players of the future.
I'm not seeing anyone coming up who is a ball winner or a shielded who is talked about the same level.
Is there anyone you know in our reserves that indicates we don't need someone like Rice and just need patience - which maybe the case with something like a deep lying playmaker?
What ? DvB and Pogba are most definitely both proper CM players. And Pogba can’t control a match ? I suppose you missed last weekend then. What utter nonsense.
Honestly I really can’t be bothered to address the rest of your post so let’s just agree to disagree.
Pogba is not a player who controls matches like a older Scholes, Xavi or Kroos. Its just not his game. That's not a knock on him, but Pogba is not a CM, never was. Its like playing Gerrard in CM, and calling him a DLP.
VdB I dont think even he knows what he is. I personally think he is more of a Delle Ali type player than a CM, although he can play as a #8. Not sure how much he offers there though.
Shuuush we send them all out to find new talent then Niall sends them to Fletch via his secret Caf account
Report in Independent says that Rice is top target for next summer and his preference is to come to Utd.
"...Many in the game say that Rice’s best quality by far is his “scanning”. He has instinctive intelligence for knowing where to position himself, to block a run or the ball. It does a crucial job of disrupting the opposition while keeping his side stable.
It also sounds like exactly what United require. It is the work of one player and that bit more.
Uefa’s technical report for Euro 2020, released in the last week, made a point of praising his “interceptions, tackling” and “after ball-winning, the ability to twist and turn his way” out of the press..."
"...Many in the game say that Rice’s best quality by far is his “scanning”. He has instinctive intelligence for knowing where to position himself, to block a run or the ball. It does a crucial job of disrupting the opposition while keeping his side stable.
It also sounds like exactly what United require. It is the work of one player and that bit more.
Uefa’s technical report for Euro 2020, released in the last week, made a point of praising his “interceptions, tackling” and “after ball-winning, the ability to twist and turn his way” out of the press..."
Tbh with you I don't feel there is anyone in the u23s who is showing the potential to become a holding midfielder in the near future at first team level. If there was, someone would've mentioned him by now.
We can already replace Mata from within
Word. The one and only reason
I'd thought I couldn't hate Glazers even more, but if they really didn't want to give the money for Rice... well I guess I'd been wrong
I personally would like to see a a combination of Mejbri plus 1 against the lesser teams. And against the big boys I probably wouldn't risk playing Mejbri and would instead opt for Rice and either Fred or McTominay for now.
But If it was upto me, i'd play a 3 man midfield. And if Pogba isn't at the club then i'd personally be tempted to play Rice as the anchor with Hannibal and VdB either side of him against the lesser teams. Against the big teams i'd go Rice, with either McFred and Hannibal/VdB.
You're comparing one of the best centre backs in the world to a half decent midfielder there.
They won't sell him or less - but I don't think anybody is paying more either.
Come on, people, Hannibal has played like 10 minutes for the senior squad in an unimportant game towards the end of the last season, and you would like him to play in the position where we are most vulnerable?
We're stuck with McFred, and that is is the the end of the story
We're stuck with McFred, and that is is the the end of the story
The same CB who people were ridiculing prior to his move to Liverpool.
Point is, he was good but playing with better players made him a better players because he improved. If anyone thinks Rice can’t improve with some of the Chelsea/ Utd or Liverpool players around him, they need their heads tested
I would too. It might work, but its against the smaller teams we will be hit on counters and I think Fred-Mjebri is a disaster waiting to happen. And against the big boys, I think a midfield of McT-Rice lacks the passing ability required to play out of trouble and build attacks. Once again, we will be left with an unbalanced midfield.
I understand your desire for the 3-man midfield, but I see you are leaving out Bruno, which is puzzling, because he is among our best players. And I think you're doing that because Bruno is half the player in a 4-3-3(in a deeper role). Which I think is exactly why we wont shift to a 4-3-3.
Although I noticed against YB we were playing a 4-3-3 a lot of times on the ball with Bruno as a false #9, Ronaldo as the LF and Pogba as the LCM. I predicted this might happen if we signed Ronaldo.
Didn't see much ridicule personally. People quite rightly questioned the price as it was huge - but he's been proven to be worth it.
Can you really say the same for Rice? he doesn't stand out for England, he was rubbish at the Euros. Yes he can still get better but he's not an automatic upgrade for me.
I was at Wembley in the summer for the final, Phillips is a much better midfielder than Rice and Mount as things stand.
Rice is much more than a DM, he is a box to box player and in time will add goals to his game. He has risen to the challenge of captaining West Ham and I think he will captain England by the time he is 25. If anybody doubts his abilities take a look on youtube, or visit KUMB to see just how much the fans value him. It will take at least £100 to get him, but I think it would be money well spent
£100m !!
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