He does sometimes
Declan Rice
- Thread starter roonster09
- Start date
- Status
Replace Wan Bissaka like many people seem to want and arguably this team might need Rice even more when we play someone like Pogba in the middle.
His passing at the start of this season has improved really significantly. He's playing significantly more long passes per 90 than ever before with a much higher pass completion, he's playing significantly more progressive passes per 90, he's playing significantly more passes into the final third per 90, he's playing significantly more passes into the 18 yard box per 90 and has 95% pass completion overall!
It will be interesting to see if he can keep it up.
Well, obviously it will decrease as they face better teams and WH become less dominant. But it probably show what he could do in a dominant team (and I think he has potential to be even better in a better team).
So if Pogba extends, will the “quality on the ball” brigade still insist we don’t need someone like Rice?
Are we supposed to play Ruben Neves or Tielemans behind Bruno and Pogba and expect that to be fine defensively?
Are we supposed to play Ruben Neves or Tielemans behind Bruno and Pogba and expect that to be fine defensively?
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2015
- Messages
- 18,175
- Supports
️
I remember liking Rice for our DM spot before it was cool and being laughed at…
(Some) United fans: We need a player like Fabinho, Fernandinho, Kante.
Also United Fans: Rice? Pft! We need someone who can pass and score goals and make assists. Not a DM!
Also United Fans: Rice? Pft! We need someone who can pass and score goals and make assists. Not a DM!
He would be mint for us. Would only need to sit back, clog things up and keep it simple in possession allowing Pogba and the front four to play vintage United attacking stuff ahead of him. Exactly his game and exactly what we are missing.
If we get this guy we'd have quite an English international contingent in our team? Rashford, Sancho, Lingard, Greenwood, Magurie, Shaw, AWB.
Fabinho and Fernadhinio are very good on the ball so your mocking falls pretty flat.
Kante is so absurdly good at what he does that it's fine that he isn't a good passer. He is an excellent ball carrier which does make up for it.
But personally I want a holding midfielder who can provide some quality from deeper positions like the first 2.
He got dominated by the Italian midfielders, and he is priced at 80-90m.
He’s right. Also Fabinho is nothing special on the ball. He has a decent shot on him from distance but so does Rice.
You were Koopemeiners agent long before he was in Vogue, and they are very different players, so it's interesting you do like him for it.
I'm against it for the likely price, but recognise his improvement and qualities he has.
Fabinho's contribution to the build up is very good. Rice showed none of that for England or WH.
They are decent. They are not midfield playmakers nor are they great passers. Their job is to break up play and then release it quickly. Which is what Rice does as well.
What people seem to want is a Ruben Neves type combined with a Fernandinho type which there just isn’t a player like that currently. You either get a deep lying playmaker who is not as good at breaking up play. Or a defensive midfielder who’s just going to keep things simple on the ball.
People need to make their minds up. Either get Rice or get Neves. Two different types. Just don’t complain about their limitations after.
Midfielders are not exclusively one or the other. Such clear distinctions don't exist. Just because someone is good in possession does not mean they are not good at breaking up play. In fact, the Fabinho vs Neves analogy is a clear example of that.
Neves isn't worse at defending in midfield than Fabinho. He's just different due to playstyle and physiology. He's shorter, so he doesn't win as many aerial duels and doesn't have as many clearances from corners. However he presses a lot more than Fabinho (with marginally successful % to boot) but as a result he also gets dribbled more. Partly because he's a bit slower as well. He also wins more tackles and interceptions per 90 mins and blocks more shots on goal. It's really hard to argue he's any worse at defending based on both observation of the players and reading of their stats.
Doesn't make sense. We have to choose between those two? Fabinho is very good on the ball, he's not Busquets but he's not Rice either. Seems you want either a nothing destroyer or a playmaker as if only those types exist.
He did say that he was going to take more chances this season. I think the negative opinions he got during the euros hit home
He says himself that he’s capable of much more
Why are people highlighting how Fernandinho and Fabinho are better then Rice in stats (this has arguably been looked a bit closer or even opposite by @andersj) then at the same time tell us to buy someone like Camavinga or Tchouameni?
The way I see Rice is that he is a
9.0-9.5/10 in a certain area of football with the rest being a bit of a weakness or an area he can improve in.
Someone like Tchouameni though is more an all rounded player with no weaknesses but hardly a jaw dropping strength either. 7-7.5 all rounded as a youngster looking to be a consistent 8/10 player.
I'm never that wowed by a player like Tchouameni or Camavinga just because they managed to dribbled past a player in midfielder they get hyped for their all rounded ability rather than their ability to fix actual weaknesses of ours.
The way I see Rice is that he is a
9.0-9.5/10 in a certain area of football with the rest being a bit of a weakness or an area he can improve in.
Someone like Tchouameni though is more an all rounded player with no weaknesses but hardly a jaw dropping strength either. 7-7.5 all rounded as a youngster looking to be a consistent 8/10 player.
I'm never that wowed by a player like Tchouameni or Camavinga just because they managed to dribbled past a player in midfielder they get hyped for their all rounded ability rather than their ability to fix actual weaknesses of ours.
That's actually nice to hear. It'll be interesting to see how he develops and if his stats reflect a change at the end of the season. Until he shows that consistently then he simply doesn't represent value for money. There's a lot of midfielders that could do what he does for less than half the rumoured cost. You don't spend 80m for a sitting DM with limited passing. You can get the Bissoumas and Tchouamenis of this world for 30-40m.
I just like to remind people that Rice and Phillips, who so many people are gushing over and consider the solution to our midfield problems, were actually (along with Mount) one of the weakest midfields among top teams at the Euros. They failed to dominate games. They didn't do it against Italy, Germany or Croatia. They arguably wouldn't have done it against France, Spain or Portugal either. England reached the final thanks to a good attack and very competent fullbacks, not thanks to its midfield.
What is that certain area of football that Rice is 9.5/10 on? Defending? If so, I'm really not sure what you're basing your assertion that Rice is so much better than Tchouameni at defending on.
Not a single team had attacked England except Italy in the Final.
I mean fine if you think Tchouameni is a better defensive minded defending CDM than Rice then so be it.
I don't know what you mean by that. Germany attacked, more than England in fact. They just didn't do it well enough (poor finishing or final pass) to get the goals.
Italy didn't just attack. They dominated every area after the first 20 mins
And when Italy did, they utterly dominated the midfield.
Begins to look very like this is the guy we'll be after in the summer, especially since Kalvin Phillips will, presumably, have a very similar price tag on his head. My hunch is that Phillips will end up at Liverpool and we'll be fighting Chelsea (and possibly City) for Rice. It would be nice if the World Cup threw up one or two alternatives...
They're better playermakers and better passers though. Trying to equalize their abilities on the ball is the same as equalizing Mctominays and Rice's defensive ability. Immediately, you'd tell me Rice is better at breaking up play. We can't simply ignore one aspect of his game because he's better at something else. People already get frustrated with the midfield options we have and every one of them is better than Rice in possession.
Thats because we scored first in the first two minutes and we went completely defensive as a tactic. Showed by Bonnuci scoring at 67 minutes.
Vs Germany. We went 2-0 vs Germany and had more shots on Goal vs Germany. We did really well vs them and you blame their finishing just because you don't rate Rice ?
Bruh, Germany had more shots and missed a clear 1-on-1 on goal. How would you not blame their finishing for that? If someone's agenda posting here, it's not me.
EDIT: Italy equalised on minute 67' yet dominated from minute 20 all the way till minute 120. Was England defending as a tactic even after losing the lead?
And you say that Germany made less Final Passes and then don't say anything good about Rice for example which is confusing?
Good to see Casemiro has some questionable passing. Couldn't even find a video that showed his passing as it showed only his tackling.
Problem with signing Rice is who do you partner him with? Rice - McTominay and Rice - Fred are too basic on the ball as a duo. Rice - Pogba looks good on paper but in reality Ole won't want to play Pogba in a 2 in the big games. So it will be Rice - McTominay or Rice - Fred in the biggest games, is that what we want as united fans?
The opinions on Rice are so exaggerated from both sides, the whole "If he was called Ricehino" people would want him bullshit and the idea people want him to assist and score goals is nonsense, as is the underplaying of how good his defensive positioning is, he's a good screener but susceptible to the press.
As far as I see, many people's opinions towards Rice (and Phillips) are heavily skewed based on the limited matches they watched in Euro 20, which Southgate clearly set up to give up possession and play on the counter (as he did in the past). I visit various football forums across the world and the "Rice can't pass" notion is exclusively seen here.
https://www.coachesvoice.com/cv/declan-rice-west-ham-england/
https://www.coachesvoice.com/cv/declan-rice-west-ham-england/
ok if you put it that way...
We bought Pogba FIVE years ago for around 90 million and since then (minus a few games a season) he gets regularly 'dominated' by Burnley, Crystal Palace, Bournemouth, Watford, midfielders etc
I don't really see Rice - Fred as materially better than McTominay - Fred. Just different. Rice will be a bit more disciplined a DM and will screen the defence better while McTominay will be a bit more all-action, offering more progressive carries and goal threat from midfield. Both midfields will lack someone with good passing and vision who can dictate the tempo a bit more.
This isn't a slight on Rice by the way. If you think that, consider if your opinion is more of a slight on McTominay instead.
Why would I?
So all the inability to Germany to create final passes is their fault and not the defenders or the CDM they are playing against that they lost 2-0 against
Bloody if it was Tchouameni it wouldn't be the same. Look at this.
So many chances for bloody Ukraine vs France. Tchouameni is ball watching for the goal and so many different times.
Yeah let's buy him just because he is cheap.
Not a Roy Keane, Kante, Robson, Zidane, Davids, Rivaldo, Scholes, Vieira rolled into one.
Do not want
Do not want
- Status