Declan Rice

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I am all for him as long as the price is under 60M and if he can play whole 90 mins a match.

I thought Italy was making so many line breaking passing from defense the whole match. I was thinking how crisp and good those passes were. And, England played with 2 DMs.
 
The United said:
I am all for him as long as the price is under 60M and if he can play whole 90 mins a match.

I thought Italy was making so many line breaking passing from defense the whole match. I was thinking how crisp and good those passes were. And, England played with 2 DMs.
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Good luck with that one :lol:

He’ll go for £70m+ or not at all.
The double pivot him and Philips is down to Southgate and not making changes. When you needed creativity and ball holding, we stuck with defensive players and a CF who after the first 20 mins was anonymous
 
You guys need to watch the game again without the emotion attached to a major final.

He played with great effort and tenacity but it ultimately led to nothing. I could see the fans loving his driving runs which were actually just down blind alleys where he lost the ball each time, either through running out of steam, a complete lack of vision or the ability to make a pass if he did see one.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
Good luck with that one :lol:

He’ll go for £70m+ or not at all.
The double pivot him and Philips is down to Southgate and not making changes. When you needed creativity and ball holding, we stuck with defensive players and a CF who after the first 20 mins was anonymous
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To be fair, I don't put any blame on Kane. The team was not set up to help his cause. If you're playing with 2 defensive minded footballers at least have a proper number 10 in the team. Mount was mainly playing around the halfway line either by design or circumstances. Only the coaches can answer that question.
 
He's so bad with the ball it's hilarious. That should disqualify him for a transfer for the top teams. Italy controlled the midfield because Rice couldn't play with the ball and under Pressure
 
youngrell said:
You guys need to watch the game again without the emotion attached to a major final.

He played with great effort and tenacity but it ultimately led to nothing. I could see the fans loving his driving runs which were actually just down blind alleys where he lost the ball each time, either through running out of steam, a complete lack of vision or the ability to make a pass if he did see one.
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"The fans love a trier," he said. "That's the great thing about football. A lad who tries a lot can be forgiven for a lot of things."

Basically, a hint from the great guy that trying hard is not the be-all in football.
 
Sultan said:
"The fans love a trier," he said. "That's the great thing about football. A lad who tries a lot can be forgiven for a lot of things."

Basically, a hint from the great guy that trying hard is not the be-all in football.
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It’s a good quality to have for sure, but everything “good” Rice did while on the ball yesterday was based purely on the adrenaline of playing a cup final.

It’s understandable that the fans would love that sort of thing, but as a neutral watching it was easy to see what it was.
 
Sultan said:
Please don't remind me of Fellaini. How he got to stay at United for 6 years is a mystery. No wonder we achieved nothing as a club and went backwards.
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That's harsh tbh. Fellaini is horribly treated by our fanbase for basically doing exactly as his managers wanted & actually being good at it.
 
Sultan said:
Please don't remind me of Fellaini. How he got to stay at United for 6 years is a mystery. No wonder we achieved nothing as a club and went backwards.
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It’s true though, every Rice burst had that Fellaini feel of hoping that he’d eventually run into someone and win a throw. There was no guile or purpose to any of the runs.
As I said last night, he had a very good first half in exactly the type or tactics you’d expect, the kind of tactics I’d hope a top club would never entertain.
 
I think the best thing i can say is he is a good player. But not at the level that will make you the best team. For example, Veratti for all his bitch behaviour, controls the midfield and the tempo. He can do this as he has great tight control of the ball and can get away from players. On top of that his passing range is really good. Rice is a good tackler, works hard but his down the same line as a Mctominay. Limited passing, limited on the ball which means its fine against worse opposition but will be found wanting if you're trying to control possession against another good side.

Also West Ham would want way too much money. If he wasnt English and he didnt have the English Tax, he should be a 30-40mil pound player imo
 
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Regulus Arcturus Black said:
It’s true though, every Rice burst had that Fellaini feel of hoping that he’d eventually run into someone and win a throw.
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Great way to put it, I didn’t even think Fellaini last night but I was saying his runs had no purpose & we’re just heading down alleys.

He was there to destroy, not create & did that well for periods yesterday but he’s in no way the answer for us.
 
No surprise that when the team plays like West Ham he looks more comfortable.

He isn't what we need unfortunately.
 
Trequarista10 said:
Phillips is twice the player
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I was quite disappointed by him - considering he was called the Yorkshire Pirlo; he doesn’t really have the ability to dictate the midfield tempo like a Pirlo or a carrick etc.

I mean he can make a pass - but I don’t think he can dictate the tempo; which is two different things.
 
From an England perspective he can definitely be an asset....but definitely not in a team with a back 3/5. His best performances for me were always when he was sitting back and slotting in between the CBs. As others have said, the energy and surging runs particularly last night was ultimately in vein.

From a United transfer perspective, not for me. We need a holding player with passing ability to cut through from deep. Even if there was anything in the Chelsea rumours, they absolutely do not need him.
 
We had 34% of the ball across the game. Our midfield was outplayed. They worked hard and that's it. No quality.
 
He deserves praise for the way he played but again he is getting praised for things he did without the ball. After the 30th minute, he barely got a touch. Against 70% of our opponents he will be part of a midfield that dominates possession and is expected to break down a side. I don't see enough quality on that front. The games where England dominated, he was poor to ordinary.
 
passing-wind said:
He looked to offer more against Italy, made Veratti, Barella and co ineffective through the midfield. He's far more disciplined defensively than either Fred or Mctomminay. He would be class under the right manager and midfield balance.
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You call that ineffective?
 
I’m not really seeing the difference between Rice and McTominay if I’m being honest. And that’s not meant as a slight on the either of them. I think Rice clearly has very good defensive qualities, definitely more so than McTominay, but it’s not enough for what United should be aiming at.
 
If we sign rice, nothing changes. Very good at what he does but then we already have 2 of those players in our midfield, and although he’s better than Scott and Fred I wouldn’t class him as a 80m upgrade for what ultimately is another water carrier.
 
Dan_F said:
I’m not really seeing the difference between Rice and McTominay if I’m being honest. And that’s not meant as a slight on the either of them. I think Rice clearly has very good defensive qualities, definitely more so than McTominay, but it’s not enough for what United should be aiming at.
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McTominay is much better going forward which is a must at a club like United.
 
passing-wind said:
He looked to offer more against Italy, made Veratti, Barella and co ineffective through the midfield. He's far more disciplined defensively than either Fred or Mctomminay. He would be class under the right manager and midfield balance.
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63% possession, 13 shots. Proper ineffective midfield for Italy that was. :lol: Especially in the second half England got dominated in the middle of the park. He was decent in the first half though I agree. Would I take him at United? For max 30 mill I'd say yes. There are much much better players out there though
 
passing-wind said:
He looked to offer more against Italy, made Veratti, Barella and co ineffective through the midfield. He's far more disciplined defensively than either Fred or Mctomminay. He would be class under the right manager and midfield balance.
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I saw a different game.

Italy dominated the midfield. Rice is far more effective defensively because he's not allowed to venture beyond certain parameters at West ham. McTominay and Fred have dual roles of helping out defensively and be ready to help the attack.
 
Dan_F said:
I’m not really seeing the difference between Rice and McTominay if I’m being honest. And that’s not meant as a slight on the either of them. I think Rice clearly has very good defensive qualities, definitely more so than McTominay, but it’s not enough for what United should be aiming at.
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Scott can cover ground without looking lost and can carry the ball very well. Scott also has a longer passing range.
Heres the thing, Rice looks better because he attempts less. He looks like a better DM because he doesn't press and put himself in uncomfortable positions.
 
Sultan said:
McTominay is much better going forward which is a must at a club like United.
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Definitely offers more of a goal threat. I’m not convinced by his passing though.

cyberman said:
Scott can cover ground without looking lost and can carry the ball very well. Scott also has a longer passing range.
Heres the thing, Rice looks better because he attempts less. He looks like a better DM because he doesn't press and put himself in uncomfortable positions.
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Yeah his bursting runs are better, but I don’t agree about the passing. He turns down trickier passes forward a lot, so even if you’re saying he has a better range, he doesn’t show it close to enough right now.
 
He's a player who needs someone more accomplished next to him who can spread play/break lines, aswell as having the discipline off the ball. Bellingham will hopefully be that player for England. But for United we don't need him because our major issue isn't off the ball but rather on the ball.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
When you needed creativity and ball holding, we stuck with defensive players and a CF who after the first 20 mins was anonymous
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England´s midfield could not create almost anything yesterday. They were lucky to get that fast goal and after that only tried to defend. Rice was good option for that but when Italy scored a goal, there was no creativity in midfield. He offers nothing else. I still say it, typical 30M player who would cost at least double. No thanks. We have already have Fred and McTominay.
 
It puzzles me how some people use McTominay as an example of a player who doesn't contribute going forward. The guy has 12 goals in the last 2 seasons - granted it's nowhere near Lampard but it's still a decent number for a central midfielder.
 
He is just a centre back who fancies himself as a midfielder. He’d never have come through the academy as a dm at a top club with that passing range, should have been forced back into a role which suits his attributes.
 
Dan_F said:
Definitely offers more of a goal threat. I’m not convinced by his passing though.



Yeah his bursting runs are better, but I don’t agree about the passing. He turns down trickier passes forward a lot, so even if you’re saying he has a better range, he doesn’t show it close to enough right now.
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I was thinking more of his cross field ballls which he is very good at.
 
He's a slightly better version of Scott McTominay. It's barmy the prices which are being bandied around him, that phase of play where Chiesa tied him into knots... We are utterly fecked if we sign Rice.
 
passing-wind said:
Italy dominated possession collectively with the phases of play, they didn't dominate the midfield. The fact that most of Italy's attacking play came from the distribution of the centre backs not Jorginho or Veratti is telling of this as a narrative.

It comes down to perspective, if you take Rice out of that game Italy in the first half would have played between the lines more effectively exposing Maguire and Stones to 1v1s which was seldom an option when Rice screened the defence.

I'm not trying to say that Rice had some type of midfield masterclass but it's a pretty shortsighted view to diminish his influence in the game. What I can't understand is how Rice gets criticised for his limitations but Mctomminay / Fred are praised for the breadcrumb dynamics they bring to the team. I have said for months that this forums ability to objectively assess players individual performances is comical.
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I genuinely think you were watching a different game if you think the midfield didn't dominate. Plus your point about the CBs is because we piled every man behind the ball, not because of Rice's ability to screen.

Yeah if you take Rice out that game and played with 10 men, that's a reasonable assumption, but once more, the whole team was compact, so put someone else in there and you get the same result.

That last para is just ironic, as I've not mentioned Fred or Scott, we're trying to objectively asses Rice in the final in this discussion and your bring feelings about them into it!
 
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