This exactly this, We seem to go after players withd muscle and less brains most of the time, Rice is Okay at best but if we want to progress we need someone who can pin a pass accurately from DM position to our central foward either to feet or into space, someone who is capable of making those quick short passes forming triangles to out smart opposition press before pining it with precision either out wide or over the top for a runner to latch unto frequently like scholes use to be for us, if the news about Varane is to be believe I'll rather we go after technical players than a muscle man we already have plenty of those in Mcfred.
Declan Rice
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This exactly this, We seem to go after players withd muscle and less brains most of the time, Rice is Okay at best but if we want to progress we need someone who can pin a pass accurately from DM position to our central foward either to feet or into space, someone who is capable of making those quick short passes forming triangles to out smart opposition press before pining it with precision either out wide or over the top for a runner to latch unto frequently like scholes use to be for us, if the news about Varane is to be believe I'll rather we go after technical players than a muscle man we already have plenty of those in Mcfred.
But then Scott can do that already as he literally plays there for Scotland and he doesnt drop back for Maguire? Its inventing something we dont do just to vindicate a susoect signing
Never thought he was the answer and haven’t seen anything that suggests he is.
I also think we should dispel this notion of a DM that will allow us to play a 3 of Bruno, Pogba and the DM. I don’t think there is a DM that can do the work by himself to allow Bruno and Pog to play the way they want to. The only way I can see that happen is if we play with inverted fullbacks which I don’t think we will. Besides,Pogba will be gone by next summer so planning with him in mind is futile.
We should rethink a MF from groundup. What’s the qualities we need from the two players that will be in our MF - how do we want to play. If we can buy one of those players this summer, then great. We manage until wecan find the partner next summer. The quick fix approach doesn’t really translate to success unless we have an oil tycoon or state backing.
I also think we should dispel this notion of a DM that will allow us to play a 3 of Bruno, Pogba and the DM. I don’t think there is a DM that can do the work by himself to allow Bruno and Pog to play the way they want to. The only way I can see that happen is if we play with inverted fullbacks which I don’t think we will. Besides,Pogba will be gone by next summer so planning with him in mind is futile.
We should rethink a MF from groundup. What’s the qualities we need from the two players that will be in our MF - how do we want to play. If we can buy one of those players this summer, then great. We manage until wecan find the partner next summer. The quick fix approach doesn’t really translate to success unless we have an oil tycoon or state backing.
There are a plethora of them, that is why we shouldnt try to sign him this summer. Sayign we shouldnt sign him as he was poor in an England shirt isnt a justified reason fro me personally.
I rate him highly, I think his positioning and reading of the game is very good and though not a big range of passing his vision and weight of pass ovr 10 yards is actually good (none of this evident last night). He seems to have a good character too. There is the argument he is similar to what we already have, I think he is better.
So as a player, personally I think there are many reasons to sign him and he actually would fit in very well to our side......but £80m+ potentially is ludicrous when there are a good 10-20 quality midfielders we could target this summer from 1/3 of that price upwards. The only midfielder I think would cost us more potentially as a feasible target would be Barella.
McT could play that role but him and Fred are all over the place positionally. The main argument for signing Rice is that he will do what is required exactly when it is needed in the no.6 position. He will read the game and will just do the right thing without instructions. He will lead the midfield in a simple but effective way. Which is what we need.
In the end it comes down to whether you rate Rice and what he does or not. I do. I’m not saying there’s nobody better but I’m not at all convinced by the alternatives.
I'd rather bring Garner back than spend that money on Rice. The thing our midfield is crying out for is someone who is defensively minded but has fantastic passing range.
Fred has entered the chat
How and why? We conceded most of our goals from set pieces (14 I think) so if he isn't a commanded aerial presence then I don't see how he prevents us conceding. its always funny when people claim how many extra pts players will give us
.I reckon if we sign Rice alone we would win the world cup
If he had that kind of performance in a home match vs Crystal Palace, his thread would be as active as any Mctominay or Fred performance thread after a bad result. That was as cowardly a performance you could find from a midfielder on the ball.
Its honestly an insult to Keane that people keep making a comparison between them. SAF never had any interest in players as limited on the ball as he is.
Its honestly an insult to Keane that people keep making a comparison between them. SAF never had any interest in players as limited on the ball as he is.
I’d love to have a proper look at Garner, yeah.
The goals we conceded were mainly from a root cause of being poor in midfield, not dealing with pressure and losing our shape. When we lose control we concede ground, concede free kicks and corners and start to panic. Rice solves those problems to a meaningful degree.Fred has entered the chat
How and why? We conceded most of our goals from set pieces (14 I think) so if he isn't a commanded aerial presence then I don't see how he prevents us conceding. its always funny when people claim how many extra pts players will give us
I reckon if we sign Rice alone we would win the world cup
I mean we play 2 holding midfielders currently. Are both of them often found in the opposition box and no one in midfield? Rice helps us control games then? We lose control often because our players are not all comfortable on the ball controlling the game.
If you think McFred is controlling that midfield at the key moments, you are watching a different team to me. Rice will control the space and will get the ball and give it simple to one of ours and he will do it better than anyone we’ve got.
I knew Gary had said something before but couldn't remember what. This was 2 years ago.
Thoughts ladies and lads? Do you see much change? He is 2 years older so I am sure he will have improved from then.
There’s three main arguments going on here.
1. Is Rice a good enough player for United?
2. Is Rice the type of player we need?
3. Is there a better or as good but cheaper player to do that job?
As usual in the debate, a lot of the arguments are getting crossed.
To the above, I would say:
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Don’t know. Probably not.
1. Is Rice a good enough player for United?
2. Is Rice the type of player we need?
3. Is there a better or as good but cheaper player to do that job?
As usual in the debate, a lot of the arguments are getting crossed.
To the above, I would say:
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Don’t know. Probably not.
Yes he has improved a lot over the last couple of years, as has been broadly noted I think even by pundits who were previously critical of him.
It's also improvement you can track statistically. Aside from getting better at the defensive side of things, he has improved in other aspects of the game too. For example, he has openly spoken about improving how much he drives forward with the ball and that's something you can see getting better year on year statistically, so he now carries the ball forward twice as much as he used to a couple of years ago.
Crucially it's also what he isn't able to do in this England side when Southgate sets them up like he did against Croatia.
Statistically he's also improved in terms of passes completed, pass accuracy, chances created, take-ons, fouls won, passes in the opposition half, forward passes, etc.
Though as you say, you would expect improvement. Over the last few years he has played a lot. Between October 2018 and April of this year he played more minutes than any other outfield player in the PL. And in that time he has become nailed on as a midfielder for both West Ham and England, also captaining West Ham. And at 22 you'd expect him to keep improving.
None of which means we should sign him or that he's worth a ludicrous fee. But he is getting better year on year.
1. Yes.
2. Not sure.
3. I'd be amazed if there weren't, somewhere. Quite a few most probably.
You don't know if there's any player equal, or better in the world than Rice, for 60-70m!?!
1. Current United yes, just look at players who get games there. Importantly though, is he good enough for a title and CL chasing side? No.
2. Feck no. In 90% of out games we barely need a DM, we need someone who can dictate from deep and is defensively sound.
3. For 80m, of course there is.
Yeah I thought he would have. Its good to see that he is. I wouldn't judge him on chance creation as a holding midfielder as that's a bit harsh.Yes he has improved a lot over the last couple of years, as has been broadly noted I think even by pundits who were previously critical of him.
It's also improvement you can track statistically. Aside from getting better at the defensive side of things, he has improved in other aspects of the game too. For example, he has openly spoken about improving how much he drives forward with the ball and that's something you can see getting better year on year statistically, so he now carries the ball forward twice as much as he used to a couple of years ago.
Crucially it's also what he isn't able to do in this England side when Southgate sets them up like he did against Croatia.
Statistically he's also improved in terms of passes completed, pass accuracy, chances created, take-ons, fouls won, passes in the opposition half, forward passes, etc.
Though as you say, you would expect improvement. Over the last few years he has played a lot. Between October 2018 and April of this year he played more minutes than any other outfield player in the PL. And in that time he has become nailed on as a midfielder for both West Ham and England, also captaining West Ham. And at 22 you'd expect him to keep improving.
None of which means we should sign him or that he's worth a ludicrous fee. But he is getting better year on year.
Rice isn't better than Mctominay or Fred. He might be better in certain individual areas, but never as an overall package.
So we are going to pay 70m for another player that won't actually improve us, purely for depth? not a chance IMO.
If he was available for 40m i'd say ok great add him for depth and rotate, but i'd much rather go elsewhere for that sort of money. He and Philips looked completely lost against a fairly half decent scottish midfield.
So we are going to pay 70m for another player that won't actually improve us, purely for depth? not a chance IMO.
If he was available for 40m i'd say ok great add him for depth and rotate, but i'd much rather go elsewhere for that sort of money. He and Philips looked completely lost against a fairly half decent scottish midfield.
He is a better DMC than both because he holds his position. The other two are CM who shine more in defensive duties
Midfielders arent supposed to hold their position in a 4-2-3-1
may wanna go 4-3-3
To play the same role, I am unconvinced by every suggestion I’ve heard.You don't know if there's any player equal, or better in the world than Rice, for 60-70m!?!
Yes in that position but we don't play that way.
If we did I still certainly wouldn't spend 70m on him - there's plenty of young specialists in that role for half the price.
Said it before and I'll say it again, would take Mctoms over Rice all day long. £80m is a joke, he is a good interceptor but bang average with the ball.
Not with Bruno in the 10 position. We found something thst works, we just need to improve on personnel not change the entire structre because of Rice.
You say this like McTominay, Fred and Matic don't do this when Maguire goes forward. It's not been a problem.
Give me some ideas mate?
Was just replying to a previous post. Rice would do the job better than any of those guys anyway. I personally don’t want Fred filling in as emergency CB.
There's no way Rice would improve on the midfield we already have. Matic has a more expansive and superior game, just age getting the better of him. McTominay is a better player, and if given a similar role would be as good if not better than Rice. Surely United can scout better than Rice.
Peak Matic was better than present day Rice but age already got the best of him so you might as well forget about him.
McT appears to have all the tools to play a proper no.6 but he’s never really done it and is inconsistent anyway. I wouldn’t mind seeing him get a run at 6 but thus far he lacks the intelligence and leadership Rice brings.
I do take the general point that Rice is a limited player. If there were a player with all Rice’s qualities but with a better passing range I would prefer that for sure.
Defensively you will struggle to find someone better.
I've seen a bit of Rice over the season and I can no longer say that he'd really be much of an improvement, especially for the price.
The step up from West Ham to Manchester United and in pressure is immense. There'll be nowhere to hide for him.
If we're going for overpriced midfielders with limited passing, then I'd rather we move for Ndidi.
The step up from West Ham to Manchester United and in pressure is immense. There'll be nowhere to hide for him.
If we're going for overpriced midfielders with limited passing, then I'd rather we move for Ndidi.
Agreed but those are the rarest players.
I think it's clear from this Euro that Pogba can't run a game for a team. So within the 3 we have we need someone to dictate the game
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