Because City were even better. If they are carried by Odegaard in midfield, which I disagree with, then Rice will make them miles better than they are. That's a problem for us as they were already way ahead with what they had.
Declan Rice | signs for arsenal
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are joined by special guest Anders (@Lyng) to celebrate the news that ETH is staying put! They also talk about the Euros so far, with special attention on England, Scotland and Denmark. They then finish with some transfer talk and the potential comings and outgoings at Old Trafford.
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Don't see how its a downgrade personally?
Rice is better than Partey, Havertz is better than Xhaka.
I'd argue that it's significantly stronger?
I'm guessing that Partey's head is likely turned with that ridiculous offer from the Saudi league, so it would be a like-for-like replacement.
Like I said in the post above though; ideally we keep Partey. I don't really like the idea of going into the season with Rice, Jorginho and El Neny as our DM options.
There's no denying that Arteta has turned the club around completely, implemented an impressive game plan and perhaps most importantly he has instilled a great culture. The club is alive again.
But if these deals go through then he has been backed completely and needs to deliver.
Even with the uncertainty of how this Rice - Havertz experiment is going to look, it is good to see the ambition is there. We definitely have overpaid here, but we have addressed some issues and it seems management really wanted these two...not settled for them. We will see this coming season if they were right to have this wishlist. Both players are at a good age.
We are even younger now but they are both very experienced for their age. I feel we are still going to miss Xhaka a bit. Curious what happens to Party now. We will still need another player if we ship Partey off or we back to being razor thin again.
We are even younger now but they are both very experienced for their age. I feel we are still going to miss Xhaka a bit. Curious what happens to Party now. We will still need another player if we ship Partey off or we back to being razor thin again.
Not sure I understand - surely Ten Have (like all managers) must have their priorities and some sort of plan about where their squad is heading? Waiting to see who may become available doesn't seem very proactive. And Casemiro turned out a good signing but wasn't exactly a great deal or bargain considering his age. Similar to Partey for us, he also ran out of steam towards the end of the season.
There's no way Havertz is a better midfielder than Xhaka
Purchase only:
Arsenal:
2019/20 - €160.80m
2020/21 - €86.00m
2021/22 - €167.40m
2022/23 - €192.36m
Total - €606.56m
United:
2019/20 - €236.80m
2020/21 - €83.80m
2021/22 - €142.00m
2022/23 - €243.28m
Total - €705.88
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I'm sure they do but they will have multiple targets in mind and it is a gamble but I'm more than certain that United will just go and drop £80m on Cacideo at the end of the window if they can't get who they have their eye on for less before then. The beauty of a system is it means multiple players can fit in the role you want them to play in, so you're not limited to trying to find another KDB type player instead. Which is why chasing Rice at this valuation doesn't make sense and only piles more pressure on the manager to succeed next season.
Xhaka was a laughing stock until last season. Havertz is better suited to midfield than playing up top.
105 million is utter madness for Rice. He's a fine player, but that's it. When the feck did he enter the £100m+
Massive pressure on Arsenal if they actually go through with this.
Massive pressure on Arsenal if they actually go through with this.
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In some aspects he is.
At some point we all overpay for the things we really want. Go to Vegas and you'd see what I mean.
Laughing stock simply because he was being played as a holding midfielder.
I find it hard to see it myself. Xhaka was really good last season.
I'd say Havertz is more mobile and is better on the ball, and is more press-resistant too. Though Xhaka was a very good passer and became a legitimate goal threat last season. He was also a leader, surprisingly.
Sorry but you're not making much sense. You're saying you'll just impulsively drop £80mil on Caceido at the last minute but it doesn't make sense for us to pay an extra £20mil for Rice early in the window? The price difference isn't huge and of the two Rice is the more proven player. Caceido just had his breakthrough season. And what beautiful system are you talking about exactly?
The pressure is on Arteta, even more so because we're in CL again. That's the cost of being at the top level again. We all know our poor depth cost us the title last season. We have to spend to improve. Arteta has been chasing Rice for months - he is his top priority. He's not waiting to see what may fall in his lap.
No, I'm saying that the role that is to be filled seems to be a DM role and there are many players available with that skill set. The best scenario for any club is getting a player at the cheapest price but with the closest chance of success within their team/system. That largely involves the right mental attributes more than anything.
Clubs know exactly who they want, first, second, third choice for the role, a lot of that 'choice priority' is down to the cost vs can they do it here. If Arsenal think Rice is a sure thing and they don't mind paying that valuation then good for them, it seems Arteta doesn't want to take any risks with the position he's trying to fill.
What I'm saying about United is that we don't need Rice, we need a player further forward but if we were shopping for a De Jong again and we couldn't get him, we'd just meet Brighton's valuation for Cacideo instead because he'd improve the midfield and is more versatile.
Oh I see. Yes obviously Arteta and co feel Rice is worth it or else they wouldn't have made the outrageous offer. They want the deal done and this was probably their last offer. And speaking of mental attributes, I believe that's also a big reason we've gone big on Rice - he is a leader.
Blimey.
Man City won the treble - have 3 signings pretty much sorted. Arsenal close to their 2nd signing who will no doubt improve them immensely. Chelsea clearing out all the deadwood effortlessly . In the meantime we are sending pigeons with a letter of interest in potentially monitoring the situation of a player.
Those figures don't even add up right!
Rice to replace Partey is a downgrade... A 100 mill downgrade.
does feel like this every SummerAh yes, I was 3 million off on the United total. I guess that invalidates everything.
He has spent but I think most Arsenal fans will feel that overall, we've got good return. He has transformed us and has us going in the right direction. As I said, climbing up the PL ladder from 8th, 5th then 2nd. Transfermarkt recently had our squad as the 2nd most valuable behind Man City. Largely due to the likes of Saka, Odegaard, Martinelli, Saliba, Gabriel's values all skyrocketing in the last year.
watching how this is turning out makes me Jealous. We’re probable the worse club in Europe for dealing and negotiating transfers.
£100m is excessive for Rice and I rate the guy. Overpaying by a good 30m.
Crazy money but so what there summer is looking great with Rice, Timber and Havertz
I think it'll be hard for you guys to make proper moves with your ownership not finalised. Too much uncertainty and that's never a good thing.
However Havertz, Rice or whoever else we may sign turn out, I'm glad we are getting things done early. Allows us to best prepare for the upcoming season.
Arsenal spends loads of cash... I'm not used to this.
Ye I agree. Although we’re the same every year even without a takeover saga happening. I think it’s in most clubs best interests to do business as early as possible so the new signings can gel in and be ready for the new season.
If we were spending that much money I think I'd want more than Rice + Havertz.
Yep I agree. But ultimately if this goes through, I think he'll be worth it in the end. Kind of like Ben White - everyone said we were paying English tax (which we were) but he's turned out a great buy for £50mil.
Finishing 2nd last season probably helped. Your owners would have seen how close you were to winning the title and will probably think you have a chance again if city slip up. With more quality you’ll be a massive threat.
He’s English though. We got rinsed for Maguire. English players so overrated with price.
The audacity of West Ham to turn it down.
Yeah we're talking Sancho + Antony kind of money here. Jokes.
Who is available that could fill that need at DM? Caicedo is one, but I think Arteta probably values the fact the Rice is extremely proven and experienced at EPL level. I guess he'd want someone who will hit the ground running and no adjustment period.
By far their most important player so they’re right to demand over 100m if that’s what they rate him at. It is very steep though but depends how much budget each team have and what positions and priorities they need to sign.The audacity of West Ham to turn it down.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think think he'll end up being a Maguire, but spending that much on one player is a massive gamble for clubs like us that don't have bottomless pits of money.
Rice is a great player but he would definitely need adjustment period and might also struggle initially as playing for West Ham is quite different than playing as CDM in highly attacking setup with highline for Arsenal . I always thought he has the attributes to succeed anywhere but some growing pains couldn't be ruled out when He moves to Arsenal .
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