Declan Rice | signs for arsenal

Status
Not open for further replies.
Judas said:
In many ways it's a strange move from him after one solid season for Arsenal, but he's a great signing and he'll do very well there.
Click to expand...

Bebestation said:
Yeah, I’m a big fan of Rice but personally if he picks to join Arsenal then that says a lot about him in my opinion.
Click to expand...

I don't quite get the reasoning for this. I'm not 1 of these Arsenal fans that think we are the best thing since sliced bread and constantly bums us up on here.

But look at it objectively.

  • It's a stable club now compared to the likes of Chelsea (I think 1 of the reasons he's been put off from them).
  • We've improved under Arteta year by year into a title challenge last season.
  • A young team that he might think will get better.
  • An English core in the squad with the likes of Saka, Ramsdale White, Smith-Rowe, Nketiah.
  • He's seeing the owners back the manager over the past couple of years with good money, and the fact they are willing to spend that fee shows that they will continue to do so.
  • Also, he's watching the owners other sporting franchises win now so knows they are ambitious.
  • There's a position in the team he can slot into straight away with Xhaka leaving.
  • He gets to stay in London so doesn't have to uproot his young family.
  • Apparently we've been working on the deal for months, so he knows he's wanted and our main target.
  • He's getting a shit load of money to move
  • More importantly, there doesn't seem many others who are actually willing to bid what it will take for West Ham to accept. So he can't go where there's no option.

Think that's a pretty extensive list to be fair, and like my last point mentions, it's different if he has a direct choice that includes the likes of City, Utd, Liverpool and Chelsea, but it seems like he doesn't.
 
Last edited:
The-Mezzala said:
Was a big fan of Rice but when you consider Raboit , Le Fee, Gabri Veiga, are all available for less than half the fee and just as good. We need to spend big on striker and Keeper this summer. There are a lot of talented players on the market in midfield for good value
Click to expand...

They're completely different players, though. But I agree that there are some reasonable options in midfield, but they're being snapped up quickly.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
If he doesn’t set the world alight then you’re fetching feck all for him, we would know, e.g Maguire, Sancho.

I think he would do well for you but not exactly elevating you to a new level, in fact, I would be surprised if he can replace the amount of goals you got from Xhaka this past season. You can of course argue that his defensive solidity will free up other attackers but Xhaka hardly prevented your forwards from doing their job, so improvements on that front would be minimal.
Click to expand...
When I said doesn't set the world alight, I meant if he doesn't kick on. Maguire and Sancho have been actively bad and frequently not a part of your first team plans. But even if Rice flopped to the extent of halving his value, thats still -£50m net vs -£70m for Casemiro. Once again, just comparing the deals financially.

That's why Chelsea's 8 year contracts are such a risky move. If those players flop they will struggle massively to move them on. I don't actually think UEFA should have closed that particular loophole as there is a fair risk/reward balance with the strategy.
 
zaafi said:
They're completely different players, though. But I agree that there are some reasonable options in midfield, but they're being snapped up quickly.
Click to expand...

I agree style wise. But we already have the best DM in world football so the ones mentioned more the profile of player we need. Rice a good player but not a priority for us
 
GoonerBear said:
I don't quite get the reasoning for this. I'm not 1 of these Arsenal fans that think we are the best thing since sliced bread and constantly bums us up on here.

But look at it objectively.

  • It's a stable club now compared to the likes of Chelsea (I think 1 of the reasons he's been put off from them).
  • We've improved under Arteta year by year into a title challenge last season.
  • A young team that he might think will get better.
  • An English core in the squad with the likes of Saka, Ramsdale White, Smith-Rowe, Nketiah.
  • He's seeing the owners back the manager over the past couple of years with good money, and the fact they are willing to spend that fee shows that they will continue to do so.
  • Also, he's watching the owners other sporting franchises win now so knows they are ambitious.
  • There's a position in the team he can slot into straight away with Xhaka leaving.
  • He gets to stay in London so doesn't have to uproot his young family.
  • Apparently we've been working on the deal for months, so he knows he's wanted and our main target.
  • He's getting a shit load of money to move
  • More importantly, there doesn't seem many others who are actually willing to bid what it will take for West Ham to accept. So he can't go where there's no option.

Think that's a pretty extensive list to be fair, and like my last point mentions, it's different if he has a direct choice that includes the likes of City, Utd, Liverpool and Chelsea, but it seems like he doesn't.
Click to expand...
I actually don't think it is that complicated. No other team is willing to pay that kind of money for him this window other than Arsenal. So it is not that he has many choice to think about. Arsenal has CL next season and there is a starting spot open with Xhaka leaving. He is at the right age, and Arsenal is paying a premium for his service.
 
Can see him as an actual CB at City rather than the cowardly CM he plays at West Ham
 
cyberman said:
He drops back into becoming a spare CB instead of contesting the midfield when under any sort of pressure.
Click to expand...

Perhaps for England, but not for West Ham, his heatmap for the season suggests otherwise.



More ball recoveries than anyone else in the league, more interceptions than anyone in the league, 2nd for ball carries, top for distance carried, none of these suggest a cowardly player to me.
 
We are always too late to the party. We are an embarassment in the transfer market. Hands down Rice is the big signing we need. Cas aint gonna be there forever. He is a manchester United signing without a doubt.


The 2 top teams in the prem see the value of Declan Rice and if he joins them he will make them stronger, whereas we will probably chase a certain Dutch player all summer and fail.
 
yamo123x said:
We are always too late to the party. We are an embarassment in the transfer market. Hands down Rice is the big signing we need. Cas aint gonna be there forever. He is a manchester United signing without a doubt.


The 2 top teams in the prem see the value of Declan Rice and if he joins them he will make them stronger, whereas we will probably chase a certain Dutch player all summer and fail.
Click to expand...

Don't think it's a case of us being too late, simply put, we can't afford him. Not without forgoing any other meaningful signings.
 
The-Mezzala said:
Was a big fan of Rice but when you consider Raboit , Le Fee, Gabri Veiga, are all available for less than half the fee and just as good. We need to spend big on striker and Keeper this summer. There are a lot of talented players on the market in midfield for good value
Click to expand...

Le Fee is in the last year of his contract so him and Rabiot could be attained for a combined £15 million most likely, as much as I’d like us to sign both though I don’t think ETH would want both or more so Le Fee as he’s looking for a more box to box playmaker which is why we seem to be in for Mount.
 
GoonerBear said:
Perhaps for England, but not for West Ham, his heatmap for the season suggests otherwise.



More ball recoveries than anyone else in the league, more interceptions than anyone in the league, 2nd for ball carries, top for distance carried, none of these suggest a cowardly player to me.
Click to expand...
What does this mean for Partey? Surely there isn’t room for both
 
yamo123x said:
We are always too late to the party. We are an embarassment in the transfer market. Hands down Rice is the big signing we need. Cas aint gonna be there forever. He is a manchester United signing without a doubt.


The 2 top teams in the prem see the value of Declan Rice and if he joins them he will make them stronger, whereas we will probably chase a certain Dutch player all summer and fail.
Click to expand...
Do you seriously think it'd be a smart move to blow the majority of our budget on Declan Rice given our much more glaring deficiencies in other areas?
 
T00lsh3d said:
What does this mean for Partey? Surely there isn’t room for both
Click to expand...

Look at the heatmap. This season hes playing more left side and more box to box. I'd suggest that he's maybe replacing Xhaka, rather than Partey, however I might be wrong. We do know Xhaka is defo leaving, I assumed Rice would be his replacement, but the whole Havertz thing has me a bit confused as to what Arteta is thinking. Maybe it's just about having options that are comfortable in a few different positions so they can be tactically flexible.
 
Buying CDM's they won't use is City's new buying 2 full backs every summer trend.
 
Daydreamer said:
That certainly is an interesting opinion.
Click to expand...
Am I wrong? Fans give him praise when he’s dropping deep making last ditch tackles away at Anfield etc them there’s silence as he drops deep at home v Fulham and cedes midfield control.
It’s fairly well documented on here. Fans have been pointing this out on here for a few seasons now.

Edit found this, it had his heat map from over the years in it.
https://www.skysports.com/amp/footb...uld-fulfil-different-roles-under-mikel-arteta

Sky are trying to dance around it but that isn’t the evolution you want. He’s becoming more stationary and set than ever before
 
cyberman said:
Am I wrong? Fans give him praise when he’s dropping deep making last ditch tackles away at Anfield etc them there’s silence as he drops deep at home v Fulham and cedes midfield control.
It’s fairly well documented on here. Fans have been pointing this out on here for a few seasons now.
Click to expand...

https://www.skysports.com/football/...uld-fulfil-different-roles-under-mikel-arteta

This is quite a good article. His roles at West Ham have changed over the years, just look at the different heatmaps. His numbers seem to be improving year on year, both defensive and attacking, showing he's getting better each season.
 
Still think we end up signing him. Many football fans often channel their inner FIFA player and assume footballers exist on a football pitch only. However believe it or not, Declan Rice is also an actual person, he has a newborn son and his entire family is in London. This is why he was never going to Bayern Munich, because his child's upbringing is probably higher on the list of his desires than winning an easy Bundesliga. Manchetser is still in the UK, but 200 miles from his home.
 
cyberman said:
Am I wrong? Fans give him praise when he’s dropping deep making last ditch tackles away at Anfield etc them there’s silence as he drops deep at home v Fulham and cedes midfield control.
It’s fairly well documented on here. Fans have been pointing this out on here for a few seasons now.

Edit found this, it had his heat map from over the years in it.
https://www.skysports.com/amp/footb...uld-fulfil-different-roles-under-mikel-arteta

Sky are trying to dance around it but that isn’t the evolution you want. He’s becoming more stationary and set than ever before
Click to expand...
Did you actually read the article you’ve linked to? Other than the 17/18 season (where he was a right sided CB) his heat maps have him driving up the pitch from the left side of a double pivot. He is literally carries the ball more than anyone else in the league, frequently under pressure.
 
GoonerBear said:
Look at the heatmap. This season hes playing more left side and more box to box. I'd suggest that he's maybe replacing Xhaka, rather than Partey, however I might be wrong. We do know Xhaka is defo leaving, I assumed Rice would be his replacement, but the whole Havertz thing has me a bit confused as to what Arteta is thinking. Maybe it's just about having options that are comfortable in a few different positions so they can be tactically flexible.
Click to expand...
I personally think Rice and Partey together would be very negative, neither is great going forward (Rice gets credit for it but it really isn’t his game).
I can see Rice displacing Partey and a more natural left sided midfielder being used
 
Daydreamer said:
Did you actually read the article you’ve linked to? Other than the 17/18 season (where he was a right sided CB) his heat maps have him driving up the pitch from the left side of a double pivot. He is literally carries the ball more than anyone else in the league, frequently under pressure.
Click to expand...
He carries it so often and far because he sets off so deep. V United or Villa at home he sits too deep.
I don’t need an article to confirm what I’m seeing, this forum has been over analysing Rice for a few years now since we were heavily linked and it’s just how he plays.
 
GoonerBear said:
, more interceptions than anyone in the league, 2nd for ball carries, top for distance carried
Click to expand...
Daydreamer said:
He is literally carries the ball more than anyone else in the league, frequently under pressure.
Click to expand...

Think this is a big reason as to why Arsenal want him. The ability to win possession and initiate a counter via that weird running style of his will be very useful.

Quite a big window for Arsenal this, last summer I thought they were screwed after missing out on CL football but they did well. Now though they’ve got to make sure they’re ready for CL and league football, so getting in players who are comfortable in multiple positions will be a big boon. The price for Havertz seems way too high, but there is talent there and you’ll have someone who can cover multiple positions, same with Rice.
 
T00lsh3d said:
I personally think Rice and Partey together would be very negative, neither is great going forward (Rice gets credit for it but it really isn’t his game).
I can see Rice displacing Partey and a more natural left sided midfielder being used
Click to expand...

I get that thinking, there's many Arsenal fans thinking the same thing.

I think there's more to come from Rice in an attacking sense. I'm thinking about guys like Wilshere talking about him a few years ago, when everyone thought he was going to be Chelsea bound, saying he thinks he's wasted in the holding role, that he had great technique and was one of the best finishers at the club in training, he said back then he'd play him further forward.

Whether that's what Arteta is thinking, I don't know. He'd certainly help win the ball further up the pitch and be slightly better covering ground against counter attacks. It's being able to win the ball high up the pitch that many managers like in terms of disrupting the other team and creating chances that way.

His tackle vs Partey in the most recent game to set up Paqueta in the penalty incident a case in point.
 
cyberman said:
He carries it so often and far because he sets off so deep. V United or Villa at home he sits too deep.
I don’t need an article to confirm what I’m seeing, this forum has been over analysing Rice for a few years now since we were heavily linked and it’s just how he plays.
Click to expand...

I can understand what you’re saying but his positioning is intentional, the way West Ham use him is to mainly stop counter attacks, and then to initiate them. He usually plays next to Soucek as well who while effective isn’t much of a footballer. In a Moyes side the midfielders aren’t there to dominate the ball high up the pitch, but to stay compact and be hard to play through.

Of course if Rice does get his move to a bigger club, he will absolutely have to adjust to playing a more expansive style. He’s an effective ball winner and carries it well, but there’ll be a lot of pressure in adapting to a new role.
 
cyberman said:
He carries it so often and far because he sets off so deep. V United or Villa at home he sits too deep.
I don’t need an article to confirm what I’m seeing, this forum has been over analysing Rice for a few years now since we were heavily linked and it’s just how he plays.
Click to expand...
You cannot both sit deep and progress the ball further than any other player in the league. Carrying the ball up the pitch is the literal opposite of sitting.

You may not need an article to confirm what you’re seeing, but you decided to link to an article that directly contradicts what you’re saying. His heat maps and ball carrying stats are not those of a cowardly midfielder hiding between his CBs.
 
GoonerBear said:
I get that thinking, there's many Arsenal fans thinking the same thing.

I think there's more to come from Rice in an attacking sense. I'm thinking about guys like Wilshere talking about him a few years ago, when everyone thought he was going to be Chelsea bound, saying he thinks he's wasted in the holding role, that he had great technique and was one of the best finishers at the club in training, he said back then he'd play him further forward.

Whether that's what Arteta is thinking, I don't know. He'd certainly help win the ball further up the pitch and be slightly better covering ground against counter attacks. It's being able to win the ball high up the pitch that many managers like in terms of disrupting the other team and creating chances that way.

His tackle vs Partey in the most recent game to set up Paqueta in the penalty incident a case in point.
Click to expand...
Fair enough and I could be proved wrong. He could certainly do the pressing from the front bit, but for 90M I’d want a bit more.
I’m not sure he’s got the game for a more attacking role, he seems to put his head down and drive a bit, rather than have all the options in his view. Also not sold on his range of passing higher up the pitch.

I say this with a view to if he was coming to United by the way, not just because he’s linked with Arsenal
 
Status
Not open for further replies.