Not sure it's that, seems you've done something way wrong for Rice to not want to consider you and for his best mate Mount to decide he's had enough and want out.
Theres defo something going on there that neither of them like.
Declan Rice | signs for arsenal
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Not sure it's that, seems you've done something way wrong for Rice to not want to consider you and for his best mate Mount to decide he's had enough and want out.
Theres defo something going on there that neither of them like.
That for sure could be the case but I was replying to the jist of what the WHU supporter posted (that it was the no UCL that threw the spanner in).
Personally i'm not convinced Rice ever wanted to return here as much as people assumed.
I don't know if you seen this thread by Swiss Ramble way back last year when it was said we'd be on a UEFA watchlist.
He thought we'd be ok, and that was after he projected bigger losses in last year's accounts than we actually ended up announcing.
1 thing we know from Arsenal is that we've never been massive gamblers. We might have increased the risk slightly with our recent spend, gambling on Champions League qualification, but we've managed it. With 5 places going forward and increased revenue for competing in the new look format, now's the time from a position of strength to try and cement your place in it for the next few years.
I think from next year UEFA is moving towards percentage of revenue method. So past seasons losses will be irrelevant.
Excellent signing for Arsenal, allows them to move closer to the classic WM formation, or an equal split of 5 defenders, 5 attackers. This is the same split that gave City the balance to go on that amazing run towards the end of last season.
But, this is not enough. If Arsenal want to seriously compete again next season, they need to go in for Caicedo as well. Those two signings would give the aforementioned balance, but also introduce proper depth and quality to play more attacking lineups with young, energetic, high quality players to start and rotate over a season.
Not enough to be a complete side with depth to go toe to toe with City, because I think we need another forward and defender more. But Rice and Caicedo are good enough to keep Arsenal playing at a high level for far longer next season.
Big competition to come next year, many teams will be back and ready.
But, this is not enough. If Arsenal want to seriously compete again next season, they need to go in for Caicedo as well. Those two signings would give the aforementioned balance, but also introduce proper depth and quality to play more attacking lineups with young, energetic, high quality players to start and rotate over a season.
Not enough to be a complete side with depth to go toe to toe with City, because I think we need another forward and defender more. But Rice and Caicedo are good enough to keep Arsenal playing at a high level for far longer next season.
Big competition to come next year, many teams will be back and ready.
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Josh Kroenke, the heir to a load of Walmart stock from his mums side. Walmarts market cap is twice the entire GDP of Qatar.
Its sometimes lost on rival fans how rich Josh is. Ever since he took over Stan as the main man at Arsenal, we have really been in it. Signing up Saka, Martinelli and Saliba and now on the verge if doing Rice for almost 100m. We were even paying PEA to leave as a means to improve the team
Contrarian opinion, but the Kroenke's are turning into good owners. The consensus is Stan is a leech but he owns the club only in name, its the son Josh that is taking on a bigger role and this inheritance baby is jacked.
We are enjoying the benefit of investment, and avoid the negative connotations of being owned by a wally in headgear and gown.
I still wonder how many, if any Arsenal fans would want the Kroenkes gone.
Its sometimes lost on rival fans how rich Josh is. Ever since he took over Stan as the main man at Arsenal, we have really been in it. Signing up Saka, Martinelli and Saliba and now on the verge if doing Rice for almost 100m. We were even paying PEA to leave as a means to improve the team
Contrarian opinion, but the Kroenke's are turning into good owners. The consensus is Stan is a leech but he owns the club only in name, its the son Josh that is taking on a bigger role and this inheritance baby is jacked.
We are enjoying the benefit of investment, and avoid the negative connotations of being owned by a wally in headgear and gown.
I still wonder how many, if any Arsenal fans would want the Kroenkes gone.
Good albeit expensive signing. Captain material. Will improve arsenal for sure.
Do we have any arsenal fans on here? Wondering what signings they need to try to bridge the gap to City and win PL next season.
Rice - In progress
Caicedo - top target
CB to replace Holding (better if he could play RB aswell like White or an starting RB so White moves to CB)
RW backup for saka (unless plan is to use Nelson there)
Good to have
CF (both Nketieh/Balogun won't work here) - don't expect this to happen, we will still have Nketieh next year.
RB/LB backup
CM/AM Odegaard backup as most are not sure on either Viera/ESR
Thanks that helps. I dont expect caicedo and rice. Surely not in the same window. I get that they could play together as a double pivot, one sits (Rice) and one hunts (caicedo). But that would be an incredible amount of money to spend. Seeing you still have xhaka, jorginho and partey.
Xhaka's leaving so I guess they'll need another midfielder. No idea if they'd be able to afford Caicedo as well.
Xhaka surely leaving.
Jorginho likely leaves aswell. It was a very short fix most likely with agreement that he can move on this summer.
Partey should stay but is injury prone and his form did fall off at the end.
After Rice we may explore Caicedo but not sure we will push all the way. We will see how it goes. We have players who we can sell and who would fetch good money this time. So may be just possible. From what I understand Zubimendi is first choice but he is not likely to move so we may aswell move for Caicedo.
Unbelievable money.
I think we have overpaid to the tune of 30m and hate that but honestly would prefer this than taking punts on Lokonge/Viera/Tavares types of signings. Also while it may seem that Caicedo has higher ceiling, Rice has done this over multiple years and so is costlier + English tax + maybe future England captain tax. I think had they sold him a year back they probably would have got 10m/20m more from ManUtd/Chelsea easily.
They will overpay, but he is a top top player. Hate to see them get him.
Easily? No team has signed a defensive player for this big fee, don't think any team would have "easily" spent 120-130 million pounds on Rice.
I agree, but just to point out I'm not sure we are signing Rice as a defensive player, I think we want him as a box to box midfielder, taking over from Xhaka.
Rice and caicedo are difrerent types of players, so its not a like for like comparision.
Rice has the potential under arteta to become a DLP. As you said there is the english tax. Alot of addons will make up the final price.
Disagree that Utd or Chelsea would have had to have paid more.
Madrid paid €80mil plus €20mil in add-ons for Tchouameni.
Wow, good signing for Arsenal. Didn’t expect them to pay what is required to get Rice, but it seems they will.
Very good player who will show even more once he moves away from Moyes’ 11 men defending system.
Still young, has tournament experience, also good for dressing room and English.
I am a bit jealous.
Very good player who will show even more once he moves away from Moyes’ 11 men defending system.
Still young, has tournament experience, also good for dressing room and English.
I am a bit jealous.
Which is less than 100 million pounds or 120 million pounds that Arsenal fans said " would have got 10m/20m more from ManUtd/Chelsea easily. "
Defensive player means player whose best attributes are defensive, not the sitting defensive player who plays 6 position.
Will be interesting to see him in Xhaka role, spending lot of time in final third.
With inflation, that’s pretty much what you paid for Maguire, isn’t it? And what Liverpool paid for van Dijk?
Also, he’s a midfielder.
Also, what difference would it make if he was a defensive player?
I don't know, I didn't subscribe to Tomkins calculator, so I don't know what the price before and after inflation is.
Why stop at midfielder, he is a football player. So think back and ask, why only attacking players or attack minded players cost lot of money compared to defensive ones?
English tax.
Yeah, I think players like Rice would be worth it. He is one of the player who I think will be elite level.
he's good now under a limited coach like moyes. he'll go up a level with a better coach, for sure.
I still don't see the price ever being worth it. If you were one final piece away, you can understand the overpay.
He'll still be good for them, but I can't see how he'll ever live up to the price tag.
He'll still be good for them, but I can't see how he'll ever live up to the price tag.
You're actually more informed about inflation than I am, then - I don't even know what the Tomkins calculator is. I was just talking about the normal inflation of transfer fees.
I don't really get what your point is, though. There are plenty of defensive players that cost a lot of money. If we're evidently including midfielders, United have broken their transfer record three times on them (Ferdinand £30m + Maguire £80m + Pogba £89m). City have dominated our league recently by focusing their considerable spending on signing defenders and midfielders.
I don't know how or why you are not getting the point. At no point ManUtd or Chelsea would have easily spent 120 million pounds for Rice, something posted by Arsenal fan.
Also it's not even difficult point that attackers or attack oriented/minded players usually cost more than defensive ones, that's why biggest fee is dominated by the attacking players.
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No risk no fun though. They finished 2nd and if they genuinely believe they are on the right track then they need to get serious now and do whatever it takes to step up another 1-2 level.
He's hardly what they were missing though. I still think you can't hang your hat on Jesus as your main striker. He's a 1 in 3 striker and unless saka or martinelli turn into a Salah or mane level of goalscorer, they lack the real killer front line.
Well we are also hardly missing someone like Rice but I would still have liked him here.
We are also hardly missing someone like Mount but are very much interested in him.
Rice is the better player / has more potential and will give them more stability and options. And who knows, maybe they will still buy a striker / a goal scoring forward.
With Xhaka leaving, he probably is what we're missing. I imagine he'll take his spot in the team and be an upgrade eventually.
Whilst I sort of agree with Jesus, worth waiting to see how he does over a whole season. Our issue wasn't scoring goals anyway last season really, it was more the other end.
Worth noting that Xhaka wants to leave, so he needs replaced.
Also worth noting, that we scored 88 goals in the league, but conceded 43, the same as yourselves and 10 more than City and Newcastle.
So perhaps the thinking is that the balance is a bit off, that if we can get someone that is a bit more mobile than Xhaka to help defend in transitions better, that we could concede less goals.
Yeah, adding Rice is a no-brainer. He is superb defensively, offers physicality too. He wins good amount of headers and apart from all that, he keeps possession really well. He is a very safe passer and also very good ball carrier.
Well his teams never dominate possession really, its a myth hes good with it. There was a good video analysis of him posted somewhere in this thread I think where it shows hes basically nonexistent with it.
His team never dominate possession because the team is set up to sit and counter.
Rodri's team didn't dominate possession either and he played for top 3 teams in La Liga. His team averaged 49% possession which is 11th in La LIga.
Before that his team averaged 50% possession and it was in 9th place.
Individuals don't dominate possession, it's the team, system deployed by coach that dominates the possession.
I really like Declan Rice and believe in a better footballing team, you’ll see more of him as a player. He should definitely wait for a big club to come in for him though.
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