Spending is absolutely fine and if you have the money, you spend it. However, my primary point is that if you'd offered Rice the same terms and West Ham the same money that you have this summer, with or without CL football, you'd have gotten your man. Arsenal are a huge club so even if you're down in 5th/6th, it is still a massive step up for Rice from battling relegation at West Ham.
Declan Rice | Arsenal £105m player
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
I don't think so personally. I think Rice was only going to leave West Ham for CL football. If we missed out again I think he would have gone to City. That would have been our 7th straight year with no CL, and I doubt we'd spend £100mil on one player. Getting back into CL does huge things for the balance sheet, no way this deal happens if our target is scrapping for top 4 again. I think it's clear our intention is the title and going deep in CL.
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I think this is a terrible take. Arsenal’s defence is younger and more reliable than Liverpool’s and their attack is way more exciting, having players with a much higher ceiling than Liverpool right now.
Chelsea are coming off a season where they finished twelfth and have lost half their squad.
Both might come good but Arsenal are the much better prospect at the moment.
This is an excellent post. I think you really nailed it here why Arteta was so focused on Rice as number 1 target despite the money and not just looking for the best value signing the way some people think he should have. That positional play is critical to Arteta's tactics and what he wants to do since it's based on Pep's tactics. All of Pep's best sides have someone who has mastered that positional play in the DM position and that position is critical to the success of teams that play with those tactics. As you say, someone like Caicedo or some other cheaper option might be easier for the average fan to spot on television. I think it's easier to understand the importance of positional play in person when you can take in the whole pitch and see better the off-ball movements that can make a big difference. I don't think Arteta believed cheaper options would get that positional play consistency which he believes is critical to progressing the side.
For the people saying it's not an upgrade on Partey I don't think they are taking everything into account. Partey has had injury issues, is 30, and his performances dropped massively at the tail end of the season after Saliba got injured. Also take into account his off-the-pitch issues and I think it's clear that Rice is a better bet for consistency over the next 4-5 years than Partey could possibly be. Plus Rice has room to improve still, Partey is only going to decline at this point in his career.
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Really, so not Rio or anyone else but Declan fkng Rice is the "best player they ever produced" because Arsenal were stupid enough to pay 100 mil for him?
Arsenal fans getting giddy and making some claims. When have I seen that beforefecking hell
Arsenal fans getting giddy and making some claims. When have I seen that before
Rio Ferdinand, Carrick, Lampard, Bobby Moore, Paul ince are some of the players produced by West Ham but no, it's Declan fecking Rice is their best ever academy player.
Phew!
Arsenal have basically accelerated their spending to utilise the momentum of the season gone past. Which makes sense to be honest as the team played some lovely stuff last season. I imagine they'll have to be a lot more careful in the coming windows and see this summer as a case of striking while the iron is hot. But at the same time, with the squad they have now, they should expect some trophies going forward.
I didn't want Rice at United as I think he's grossly over valued for a player whose on the ball skills are decent at best. The one club I can see him being this huge addition to is Arsenal who have historically been known for their soft centre.
I didn't want Rice at United as I think he's grossly over valued for a player whose on the ball skills are decent at best. The one club I can see him being this huge addition to is Arsenal who have historically been known for their soft centre.
Enzo looks like a bargain now.
Lampard?
Carrick?
fecking hell
Sorry, I meant to add "of his generation" to that. My mistake
Oh dear. And then you wonder why Arsenal fans get laughed at so much.
100% agree. We have overhauled our squad which required significant investment. Now that we're back in CL, the board knows we need to consolidate our position and strengthen the squad, and are backing Arteta and getting his primary targets. Absolutely our ambitions moving forward are more than just top 4 now.
And yes, I think your second point is the main reason why Arteta wants him - he adds some real steel to our team. He also hardly ever gets injured (big upgrade from Partey in that regard), is a workhorse and leader.
Just answered that in my other post - it was an error. I meant to say "best player of his generation" that they've produced. Might be a long while before they can get £100mil for an academy player.
Are you seriously arguing Rice may not be able to perform at Xhaka's level?
I mean I get the doubts about him performing at the level expected for a 100M signing, which I don't think he will, but he's way better than Xhaka.
This is why we talk about squad depth, the need for players like RicE, Timber and Havertz to come in. To provide competition and/or cover for the incumbent players.
Yes, ideally it would have been great to keep Xhaka and now looks like Partey as well, in addition to our additions. As that would have put us firmly back in the title race again. But guess it’s not looking that way right now. It’s up to the management to sort that out then.
As for “no excuses”. Why is this such a big issue for rival fans. I’ve not only seen this from you, but from so many more rival fans online and in person.
What exactly are you expecting this year, Arsenal to win the PL and/or CL? I’m sure you are aware that Man City still exist in the PL. So do United, Newcastle and Liverpool. And in the CL there are massive teams as well, who are rated higher than Arsenal.
Also, what should happen if Arsenal fail to deliver as expected by rivals this season?
The only expectation you should be having is that Arsenal compete at the top again next season, and that gives us a chance to win the big things. That’s really it. We know the difficulty at the top and how hard it is to win the best prizes. City just won their first CL after 10 years of failure there. That’s how tough it is.
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I feel bad for Xhaka, and I haven't always been his biggest fan. He spent a big chunk of his time here out of position. Only when Arteta played him in his preferred position did he start looking like the player Wenger thought he was buying. If Rice gets to the level that Xhaka has shown for us in the last year or so (and given his age, maintains that for a few years), his big fee would look well worth it. Hopefully it doesn't take 5 years to get the best out of Rice like it did with Xhaka.
Sorry, I meant to add "of his generation" to that. My mistake
That's not a high praise that you think it is, who are the competitors? Reece Oxford?
Arsenal fans getting giddy and making some claims. When have I seen that before
You got some United fans in this thread also making some absurd claims like Ferguson only needed mediocre players as DM and the role itself can be played by any old chump despite the fact all the best club sides have had world-class DMs as part of their spines (just in the last 15 years Casemiro, Busquets, Carrick, Bayern shared with Kroos-Schweiny etc)
Fair point but my point was more that he's the best they've produced in a long time and wanted top dollar for him, knowing it will probably be another 10 years before they can fetch this sort of fee again. WH have come up big winners here and played Arsenal perfectly. Arsenal obviously feel he's worth it, hopefully Rice fulfills his potential.
Yes it is a bit weird some of the recent posts that DM is not a real position or can be played by Luke Shaw. Maybe we should try Holding there?
I fully admit I have gone a bit mad with Rice and Timber being announced one after the other, and have lost my head a bit. My husband is so annoyed with me carrying on so much about our signings that I've already turned him off the upcoming season.
Yeah, some nonsense points playing down importance of DM role. Apparently anyone who is willing to play can play it easily. If only professional mangers and recruitment team knew about this.
Carrick, Lampard, Rio, Bobby Moore, Joe Cole, Paul Ince?
Nah, definitely Declan boiled Rice innit?
When Arteta gets sacked later in the season it’s going to be beautiful.Arsenal fans getting giddy and making some claims. When have I seen that before
Yeah, West Ham got money, Arsenal got the player they wanted and their primary target. Also player is at very good age and plenty of experience. That's all matters.
World class DMs. Rice does not belong in that group for now.
Moreover, I laughed at the claim that Rice is the best talent West Ham have ever produced. Do you agree with that absurd claim? Although the poster backtracked on it pretty fast.
Whats interesting is that there has only been 3 that have been same league transfers -
Mbappe, Grealish & Greizmann - arguably that’s been some of the better transfers apart from probably Gareth Bale.
Think in a few seasons 100m will be a norm for WC players. So Arsenal shouldn't be too worried about the fee. They got an excellent player in return.
"Arsenal MUST win trophies this year!!"
I don't think these people know the compliment they are paying us after years of (deservedly) not being taken seriously. Yes, we are a top team now and will be challenging for the biggest trophies for many years. Thank you.
I don't think these people know the compliment they are paying us after years of (deservedly) not being taken seriously. Yes, we are a top team now and will be challenging for the biggest trophies for many years. Thank you.
It was an error on my part, it was supposed to have "best of his generation" in there somewhere but I admit, my head isn't right ATM. All these big signings we're making has got me all over the place. Never did I think I'd live to see the day that Arsenal would be making these kinds of signings and more importantly, getting their primary targets in this manner. To think that it was only Jan last year that Vlahovic rejected us for Juventus because he wanted CL football (how our fortunes have changed). Now we are a much more attractive destination for top players and we don't have to wait for a last minute deal on deadline day.
Really really wanted Rice at United. Would have been my dream signing this summer.
It 100 percent is. Are there many games you can cite here where you thought Rice came off the pitch as one of the players player in the game that was unlucky to be on the losing side?
Because I gave plenty of examples in his thread as they happened. Many examples of ceding midfield control by doing his 3rd CB trick against teams that are of similar to lower standard than West Ham.
But this is what happens when a player is considered a top player in a nothing side. His performance thread only gets bumped when he has a good game and goes silent for the 4/5 games in between when he disappears. Then it’s bumped again with..and another good performance from Rice..5 weeks after the last post.
It’s all there. Go read it. Even his biggest transfer supporters had to admit he was dog shit.
You played exceptionally well last year and with the amount you've spent this year, it's obvious people will now expect you to win to justify the hype and outlay. Whether you will be challenging for "many years" is not something I would bet on at the moment. There's just far too many big teams with massive backing around for anyone team to be claiming to be perpetual challengers.
Think it's almost the norm now. Any decent player goes for about £40-50mil so those more highly regarded go for almost £100mil. I mean don't West Ham also want £80mil for Lucas Paqueta?
Have noticed that, and in the same breath they often say if we don't win anything Arteta should be sacked. Not sure I remember rival fans being so desperate for a manager to be sacked.
Rice could have an amazing season/one of the better players in the squad that is not followed by the others & fans of other clubs will be laughing every chance they get to call him Arsenal’s Maguire.
I can’t see Rice flopping at Arsenal - but I’m unsure if Arteta and Arsenal as a whole club can live up to the expectations of a 200-250 mil transfer window aswell.
Let’s see how it pans out.
I can’t see Rice flopping at Arsenal - but I’m unsure if Arteta and Arsenal as a whole club can live up to the expectations of a 200-250 mil transfer window aswell.
Let’s see how it pans out.
Same. Just don’t think it happened in the right time.
Rice won something with West Ham so it felt like the right time to leave.
We have Casemiro that is not needed to be replaced and just a back up is needed. Maybe next year we would have been more likely to make a bid with Casemiro getting older and buying a player that can take over him whilst also having new owners giving us a new budget allows signing Mounts best friend.
The way Ten Hag improves players is crazy and I think he is better at that than Arteta - who isn’t bad it either. I would have loved to see Rice grow in to a player under Ten Hag -
but I’ve realized I’ve just got to enjoy that with hopefully the improvements of Mount.
I like how you broke your squad down, I'll give it a crack.
Core Player
Saka - 21
Saliba - 22
Martinelli - 22
Odegaard - 24
Rice - 24
White - 25
Gabriel - 25
Ramsdale - 25
Jesus - 26
First Team Player
Timber - 22
ESR - 23
Havertz - 24
Zinchenko - 26
Trossard - 28
Partey - 30
Squad Player
Kiwior - 23
Nelson - 23
Vieira - 23
Tomiyasu - 24
Nketiah - 24
KT - 26
Turner - 29
Jorginho - 31
Might be sold / uncertain future
Patino - 19
Balogun - 22
Holding - 27
Pepe - 28
Soares - 31
El Neny - 31
Saka - 21
Saliba - 22
Martinelli - 22
Odegaard - 24
Rice - 24
White - 25
Gabriel - 25
Ramsdale - 25
Jesus - 26
First Team Player
Timber - 22
ESR - 23
Havertz - 24
Zinchenko - 26
Trossard - 28
Partey - 30
Squad Player
Kiwior - 23
Nelson - 23
Vieira - 23
Tomiyasu - 24
Nketiah - 24
KT - 26
Turner - 29
Jorginho - 31
Might be sold / uncertain future
Patino - 19
Balogun - 22
Holding - 27
Pepe - 28
Soares - 31
El Neny - 31
You're right though, things can and do change quickly. But when I say we are set I mean that we have essentially a whole entire squad - and at the very least all of our core players - at a perfect age to develop together and be around for years to come.
Obviously there will be movement both in and out over the next few years, but thankfully if some if our players decide to move on we will at least be in a position to recoup some decent money. We made virtually no money back from the old group that took years to move on (Mustafi, Bellerin, Chambers, Mkhi, Sokratis, PEA, Mari, Laca, Kolasinac, etc). There are still a few left in Pepe, Soares and maybe Holding, but I expect they'll all be moved on this season.
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