Rice has been regarded as one of the top PL midfielders for a few years now. He is also English so was always going to go for a big fee.
Declan Rice | Arsenal £105m player
- Thread starter Samid
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His fee is mental though. Isn't it more than Bellingham?
Seems like his job is to win the ball back and give it to someone more creative. He can't possibly fail at that.
Pogba also had talent problems, I feel it silly to argue otherwise. Obviously his attitude was his biggest problem though.
You have not said anything about his high level though, where was it? Can you point to the games? Which competition?
At a top level he needs to be able to do a lot more with the ball than that.
Yes the up front fee is more but with add-ons Bellingham could end up costing more. Both fees are mental really.
United signing a bunch of midfield disasters isn't proof the DM position is a particularly difficult or demanding role. We've just been terrible at recruitment full stop.
I'm a fan of Casemiro, he's been a really important signing but he's a good example of what I'm talking about.
His passing is decent but a bit erratic, his first touch is just ok, he's no recovery pace, stamina is questionable but he's still one of the top DM's in the world.
You simply don't have to be all that to play the role. It's half the job of what all round midfielders used to do.
I said Luke Shaw could play the role I didn't say that's what we should do. What with him being a very good left back.
Experienced yes but West Ham fans were saying at times last season that as a leader he was a massive downgrade on Noble
Fees are important though, Xhaka has proven he can play at a higher level with better performances, Rice is younger and could be as good or better, but there is risk.
We also didn't buy DMs, we bought box2box and put them in DM.
As far as the media says, but that means nothing, I would say the vast majority of the highly regarded players don't work out. The teams who are smarter than that usually do better.
True.
And I think that's one the main attributes of a DM, somebody who is willing to play the role properly.
So in your highest footballing IQ,
Grealish is far more important than
- KDB (scorer in Bernabeu for City equalizer in CL Semi final) ,
- Rodri ( Scorer in Champions League Final) ,
- Gundogan ( double Scorer in FA cup final),
- Bernardo Silva, ( double Scorer against Real in Etihad, assist in Champions League final) and
- Halland ( Premier League record goals)..
Let me ask you, if United signed Grealish would he have made us title challengers, please answer me don't evade it.
While at it, if United signed Halland would have made us a title challengers? You know the answer deep in your heart.
Getting major Maguire vibes…
I have nothing much to say to you, I've replied to another poster about Grealish.
Rice like Grealish will have little impact to how Arsenal plays.
You will bear me witness, Timber will have massive effect on Arsenal than Rice wait you will see.
Rice + Havertz will be like Sterling move from City to Chelsea. Won't affect the team course that much.
He is not better than Party, his only advantage is age. Party is technically better and more defensively aware.
He is not better than Partey
I disagree, I think he is a far better and more consistent performer than Partey, plus 6 years younger and (for obvious reasons) a less risky player to have starting.
Are suggesting the only meaningful thing an attacker can do is score in specific games? They would probably have won without any 1 of those players tbh.
The oracle has spoken. Must be great to foresee how every transfer work out for every team.
There is no way he's more consistent. He's been really inconsistent this season.
What do you mean by "Pogba had talent problems"? He is exceptionally gifted.
Rice plays at a high level in most games, and is why he is wanted by many top clubs. He is very intelligent and has great positioning, so he will often stop an attack simply by positioning himself instead of making a crunchy tackle. He reads the game exceptionally well and is brilliant at intercepting.
Not the kind of player who stands out, though, similar to a lot of players in that position.
I’m honestly not that bothered about them signing him.
Chelsea's bid for Mudryk had achievable add ons which is why the bid was accepted. Their head clearly mentioned that Arsenals bid had Balondor clause and not Chelsea. Although there would be PL/CL win clauses.
He was very gifted, amazing passer.
He also had weaknesses, he was bad Vs the press and he wasn't that bright, but his passing etc is exciting so people focus on that a lot.
You sound like someone who has not watched West Ham much, he loses the midfield battle nearly ever every game. Most of the time his performances are not stand out in West Ham FFS.
Ok, so you are saying that the DM isn't a particularly important or demanding role?
Let's look at the best teams of recent years.
Madrid - Casemiro,
City - Rodri,
Liverpool - Fabinho,
Bayern - Kimmich,
Barca - Busquets
So I think we can establish at least that the very best teams had very good DM's. That could be coincidence of course.
You've been terrible at recruitment in your words, bought multiple players, including buying CM's to play as DM's, but despite you saying its not a demanding role and a left back could do it to a high level, none of these players cut the mustard?
Its almost like I didn't read a million times over that Pogba needed a top class DM beside him to get the best out of him?!
You can forgive me if I think the points are all over the place!
These DMs are very influential in the buildup and dictating of the teams game though, if not the main player dictating then supporting them with it.
It's funny you say we can't have watched West Ham much, because West Ham fans that watch him every week consider him 1 of their best players of the past 20 years.
Fergie retired 10 years ago, I think football has moved on just a tiny bit tactically since then.
Do you actually watch football? I refuse to believe someone who currently watches football can genuinely think DM is the easiest role on the pitch.
This is just insane
Half my family support west ham, hard to them seriously xD
He suits their play, defensive, gives up the midfield battle, counter attacks.
We'll just agree to disagree then. If people are arguing we overpaid, I can totally get that. If people are saying DM's aren't a massively important role in a team (and I appreciate there's various styles of DM), and that Rice isn't good at what he does and doesn't see the potential for him to get better in a better team, then there's no real discussion to be had.
He most certainly wasn't bad in that aspect. In fact, he was very press resistant in his first seasons for us, but his problem was that he took too long to make a decision and instead kept the ball, so eventually he lost it.
Do you watch a lot of West Ham? You, as a United fan, watch West Ham instead of United? I've seen enough of Rice in matches to know what kind of player he is.
Your argument is very weak. We lose midfield battles every other week with Casemiro there. Do you not think Casemiro is one of the best CDMs in the world?
You need a fully functional midfield who work together and with different skillsets to control the midfield. Rice can't do everything by himself.
Romeo Lavia is the main man in Southampton's midfield and they lost midfield battles every week, and they just got relegated, so according to your logic, he is shit.
I would argue this, you could get a DM for a lot cheaper who is not that much worse, and spend that extra money effectively elsewhere.
As I mentioned earlier, we've overpaid for the package that Rice is. Could argue that players like Caceido might be a better player. But as seen again only a couple of months ago, we needed a good strong character, vocal, leaders / captain material type.
We probably lost our biggest player in that regard on Xhaka, so that needed replaced, and maybe even improved upon. If we get that, I'd say that's an effective use of the money.
Why are Arsenal getting rid or Partey and Xhaka?
Fair enough.
Fergie usually had Carrick or Keane there anyway and they were both expensive at the time of their transfers. It's ridiculous to think he didn't value that position highly and just chucked anyone there.
Xhaka has already gone I believe.