How come Rodri at City is high up on all those stats then?
Declan Rice | Arsenal £105m player
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
How come Rodri at City is high up on all those stats then?
He played well in 2021-22 season too but was much better in 2022-23.
You can also make an argument that Caicedo has played and proved his worth in dominant playing style while Rice has proven only in counter attacking set up, so Caicedo is more proven for top teams.
I wouldn't make that argument as they have skillset to play different style but all the "Caicedo is not proven enough" is just wrong.
Camavinga and Tonali I can agree have proven themselves at a higher level being in CL and at international level. But I don't think Caceido, who's just come on in the last year or so, is more proven than Rice.
Such as?
They all do, several of them won titles this season, clubs massively overpay for players all the time, City have previously put pressure on other clubs to buy players before.
That's fair enough. That's why I think they are of a similar level.
Some(very few) are yes but a DM can do none of that and still cost a fortune. Like Rice.
I'm convinced you could throw Luke Shaw in the role and he'd roughly be around Rice's level.
The role is really a bit of a myth. You don't need a special player there if the rest of the team is on point. Somebody functional will do. Fergie chucked various mediocre players into the role and we made it work.
Just an insane price, really. Huge pressure on both him and Arsenal. If they're not fighting for the title and going close to winning it, will be a massive failure.
Tchouameni and Kimmich just off the top of me head
He was so bang average for most of last season and yet because of a great performance v us and a European title where he was crap in the final, he’s worth £100m? The price is actually because he plays for the England national team, where to be fair he has been excellent at times.
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Both Havertz and Rice are improvements on Xhaka and Partey. But they overpaid for both, specially for Rice, he's a solid player but never world-class he's another overrated British player.
I didn't say he was "not proven enough", I said he was arguably the least proven from those players mentioned. Caceido was not regarded as a £60mil+ player until this season.
Rice's international performances are also a big reason why his stock is high.
Surely he gives them much more security than Partey? I think it’s be nuts to play Odegaard and Havertz ahead of Partey, but Rice is a rock. He gives them a lot of tactical flexibility in that sense. And if he comes out of his shell he looks like he can be a dominant midfielder in all areas.
I think he’s a very frustrating player individually because he plays so cautiously, and playing in that role he can make the team very cautious. But Odegaard solves a lot of that problem for him because he’s always demanding the ball and providing good options.
Caceido will be close to £100M as well, that's why Chelsea can't close the transfer.
Are they actually available though? Tchouameni IMO would probably go for more than we paid for Rice. And Kimmich has a release clause of €50mil but I'm not sure he'd go to Arsenal. He apparently is committed to Bayern and shut down any rumours of a move to Barca in June.
Are you honestly telling me, a club with a fanbase that has moaned about poor options in midfield since the Carrick type era, and finally has another top class 1 in Casemiro and can see the massive difference hes made, that the role in there is a myth?
I mean if you could just shove Shaw in there, why didn't you do that?
Yep, looks like Brighton has increased their valuation of him even further. They rejected the £70mil bid we apparently made in Jan, and looks like they want even more now.
It's the British tax, I'm just glad it's not us paying it this time for a change.
Yea I agree, though a strong passing range is important at the top level.
Very good player, but sounds very expensive if its a british transfer record beating Enzo Fernandez to Chelsea
Arsenal have effectively set the price for Caciedo with the Rice purchase
Neither have played a season as good as Xhakas season, or even close.
Excellent addition for Arsenal
Because he's the best in the world, and he anchors alone.
I don't think they are the same obviously, but it kinda feels like when we paid 80m for Maguire simply because he was the best option at the time, PL proven, etc. From what i've seen from Arsenal fans, you guys are very happy because he's the safe option and he'll do the job Arteta requires. And he'll probably be more consistent than Harry tbf, but for the money I think you could've gotten more.
If I knew who exactly, I'd be doing Edu's job
Or did Chelsea do that with Enzo?
Stop acting clever, Pep paid 100m for Grealish, did he elevate City's team, did Grealish turn City into a Machine? Or rather, if Grealish was injured this season City would not have won any title? As you can see it not about ££ but it's about the coach.
This over the top signings never work generally no matter the club.
Even us we signed Pogba twice a player Rice is, it flopped massively.
Which is this High level Rice has played in? Even McFred have played in high level.
Another poster said, Rice knows PL.
EPL has over 400 players ( 20 teams*20 players) how comes knowing PL becomes only meaningful when trying to justify some signings.
Even the best players in EPL came from outside.
GK - Allison, Ederson. Add Onana if he comes.
Defenders - Dias, Martinez, Saliba
Midfielders - KDB, Odegaard
Strikers - Halland, Salah, Kane. (Only Kane holds it as an inborn PL players)
This notion of "proven PL/English players" is what sunk Ole with Maguire, Bissaka, Sancho as the main culprit.
Lets not elevate Rice importance, but also not hide his qualities. But he won't magically turn Arsenal into a 15 game winning machine. Never.
This will be a Grealish type of signing. Just a small fish in a pond where real quality matters alot.
maybe but Chelsea a bit of a basket case so not many put too much stock when they are buying largely unproven players like Mudryk for 80m plus
Some of these posts 
If it gets to those figures it means we've we've both the big ones and he's won the balon dor.
Where do I sign?
And this is it. People keep saying "for the money Arsenal could have gotten more" but then can't really say who these better deals would have been. There's no doubt we've overpaid (probably by about £30mil) but this is the current market. Any half decent player is going for £50mil and up now. Inflation is real.I don't think they are the same obviously, but it kinda feels like when we paid 80m for Maguire simply because he was the best option at the time, PL proven, etc. From what i've seen from Arsenal fans, you guys are very happy because he's the safe option and he'll do the job Arteta requires. And he'll probably be more consistent than Harry tbf, but for the money I think you could've gotten more.
If I knew who exactly, I'd be doing Edu's job
I think we Gooners are happy because we're actually getting out primary targets. After so many lean years, I never would have thought we'd be spending this kind of money and setting a transfer record for a British player.
Yes and you can make similar argument that Rice is least proven in dominant style football and he is more proven in counter attacking style where they defend in numbers. He is least proven to play with large space to cover.
Caicedo is as good if not better, given the choice I would take Caicedo for sure, shame we are not signing any of them.
Anyways Rice is a very good signing, if the player helps in winning trophies then price really doesn't matter.
But the difference between him and s 50m decent player is not big.
I don't understand how a lot of people seem to think he's a sure thing, he played for a defensive club and national team, there really is no guarantee he's going to have the same impact in a far more attacking team, with that price tag on his head. Is he a success if he doesn't elevate Arsenal, at that price?
Wahey, he's shite and overrated and doesn't improve the arsenal for 100m. We usually make these shite sideways signings, delighted we didn't fall for this one
Grealish was one of the most important players because it changed City’s game from having a tap in merchant or regular inverted forward to a team that was totally creating for Haaland.
Grealish, De Bryune, Gundogan & Silva were creating for Haaland from every side, even one side of dribbling led to the creating of another.
Poor post showing a lack of footballing IQ.
Meh.
We tried for Caceido too in Jan so obviously Arteta was interested. Unfortunately Brighton weren't willing to sell at the time - they want about £100mil also.
I think why Arteta has gone the extra mile for Rice is that he's more experienced and his leadership qualities. Captain of West Ham and good shout for future England captain.
It's funny how you use Grealish as an example and asking if he elevated City after having their most successful season ever, also winning the treble. I'd say, yes, he absolutely elevated them. Maybe not in terms of numbers, but how Pep wants his team to play.
Pogba didn't flop because of his talent. He flopped because he was lazy and didn't have the mentality to be the best version of himself as a player. Pogba and Rice's mentality is quite a huge contrast to each other.
What I mean by high level is his level, not the cups he plays in. He has a lot of quality and is one of the best CDMs whether you like it or not. You seem too hung up on the fact he's English. English players can't be good then? He's got a boring name and looks and has a funny way of running with the ball, so his actual qualities are forgotten about.
You, and I, have absolutely no idea how this transfer is going to work out for Arsenal. Maybe they'll be a lot better, maybe not. One player can make a huge difference to a team.
Fees apart anyone in the world would choose Havertz or Rice for Xhaka without hesitation. No matter how last season went.