But he’s about 3-4 years away from Declan Rice level as one of the best players in the league, he is more talented but that’s not enough, there are more talented players than Declan Rice who never got to his level for whatever reason.
Declan Rice | Arsenal £105m player
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
But he’s about 3-4 years away from Declan Rice level as one of the best players in the league, he is more talented but that’s not enough, there are more talented players than Declan Rice who never got to his level for whatever reason.
He had a poor performance but his limitations in passing was shown up this time, he’s not sharp enough or snappy enough with his passes through the lines and I think he is a better ball carrier than he is passer generally.
Saying that you can’t expect to have it all, no one really does even the players that many like to herald of yesteryear all had a weakness somewhere or the other very few players are all encompassing marvels like Bobby Charlton or Di Stefano who can do it all, Rice is still a top player regardless.
Saying that you can’t expect to have it all, no one really does even the players that many like to herald of yesteryear all had a weakness somewhere or the other very few players are all encompassing marvels like Bobby Charlton or Di Stefano who can do it all, Rice is still a top player regardless.
That’s all true, but we have someone who is younger and more talented, who plays in same position. He also impress us every time he plays.
Rice must be good because these are the type of silly bumps that happened in Kante’s thread when he had the odd bad game.
Just from watching them, they are much more solid defensively. They have the best expected goals against this season, fewer than 1 per game (0.96). City are 2nd at 1.03 per game. Last season they were on about 1.2 per game. A top defence is what wins you league titles generally, and I'd bet that Rice will eventually get a title win being a key member for that team.Hoping @bosnian_red can clear up here which “dominance” statistic Rice has made them much better than Partey
Last edited:
Harry Kane, Jude Bellingham
Revealed: The actual fee that Bayern Munich paid for Harry Kane amid talk of £100m transfer deal with Tottenham for record-breaking England striker. Bayern Munich did not pay £100 million ($122m) for Harry Kane, says former club president Uli Hoeness, with the actual fee coming in at £82m.
Real Madrid have confirmed the signing of England international Jude Bellingham from Borussia Dortmund for a fee of €103 million (c. £88m) that could potentially rise up to €133.9m (c. £114m) with add-ons.
Think it's pretty clear both of those will trigger the clauses, taking their fees over the 100m mark.
Kane is only 10 goals or so away from doing so already.
You seriously think Arsenal look better in this first half of the season & more solid compared to last? When they absolutely ripped up the league until after the New Year?
You sure you’re not just seeing what you desperately want to see
They have been more solid with Rice in that team.You seriously think Arsenal look better in this first half of the season & more solid compared to last? When they absolutely ripped up the league until after the New Year?
You sure you’re not just seeing what you desperately want to see
Concede less chances, and if it wasn't for a poor goal keeper they'd have conceded lass goals than last season (currently conceded two goals more)
Ultimately the goal keeper will cost Arsenal this season, Rice has elevated that team for sure.
that true? What are the stats for the first 19 games of last season compared to now with chances conceded?
Genuinely curious because I thought Arsenal & Partey were incredible for the first half of last season so interesting to know the difference.
They are conceding less shots per game then last season, they have conceded less chances then last season per game, they are making more interceptions per game then last season, making more tackles per game than last season.
They have conceded two more goals, with a keeper who has been shaky at best..
Most metrics point to a better defensive structure with Declan Rice key to that, making the most tackles per game, the most interceptions per game and nearly the most clearances per game.
Don’t just tell me, show me.
How many big chances conceded after 19 games last season, how many this?
I wanna know you’re basing this on actual stats so should be easy enough for you to share that ?
If it’s 60 chances vs. 62 chances, or 120 interceptions compared to 125 it’s insignificant, so I’d like you to show me the stats you are using to show that despite their worse showing on the pitch this year, they are in fact better in multiple areas.
What about expected goals scored?
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2015
- Messages
- 18,554
- Supports
️
Apologies I was being hyperbolic there and I understand your point but I’m still going to disagree here. Arteta hasn’t asked for Rice to do what you’re expecting he wants Rice to solidify Arsenals centre of the pitch and make it a safe space.
I also think you’re undervaluing what Rice has done across the season so far not just in one game. One game doesn’t win you a title, consistently conceding fewer high xG chances will improve your chances far more than Rice playing a few more risky passes in the centre of the pitch and I will trust the judgment of the aforementioned analysts and Arteta and his staff on this one.
I also think it’s reductive to say who takes them closer to a title? I think they needed both so the answer is both. Rice will over a season put them in a position where they concede less than other PL sides (and this is important here not comparing on a season by season basis compare to other clubs in the league as standards change quickly in the PL) a better goal scorer possibly finds the back of the net against West Ham too but we don’t know that yet.
He’s also playing Odegaard and Havertz ahead of Rice who I think should reasonably be expected to be the creators in the side and Rice finds them enough times with his passing for it not to be fair to criticise him to this level.
Rodri isn’t the norm for a top team the reason he is so highly rated is because of how exceptional he is. He also performs a slightly different role to Rice. City regularly play with 3 CBs in their defence Arsenal are usually 2/3 with one of the fullbacks inverting to create the box midfield that creates the platform to build a safe and sustainable attack and recovery structure.
Rice has always been a good progressive passer and an excellent progressive carrier for his position. But I think yours is a fair assessment here. You can expect him to be everything so let’s focus on what is his primary function and is he performing that consistently? I’d argue it’s unquestionably yes.
Could you ask him to do more? Is there a player that exists that can do more?
Yeah
Mate really, you can't Google yourself?
Do you still need to be spoonfed or can you use your opposable thumbs? If you can you'll be able to use a phone/lap top to search the WWW.
It's all there online.
Yes, but we can list the over £100m signings and see they're mostly duffers;
| 1 | Neymar | Barcelona - PSG | 2017 | €222m |
| 2 | Kylian Mbappe | Monaco - PSG | 2017 | €145m (+€35m) |
| 3 | Joao Felix | Benfica - Atletico Madrid | 2019 | €126m |
| 4 | Enzo Fernandez | Benfica - Chelsea | 2023 | €121m |
| =5 | Philippe Coutinho | Liverpool - Barcelona | 2018 | €120m (+€40m) |
| =5 | Antoine Griezmann | Atletico Madrid - Barcelona | 2019 | €120m |
| =7 | Moises Caicedo | Brighton - Chelsea | 2023 | €117m (+€17.5m) |
| =7 | Declan Rice | West Ham - Arsenal | 2023 | €117m (+€6m) |
| =7 | Jack Grealish | Aston Villa - Manchester City | 2021 | €117m |
| 10 | Romelu Lukaku | Inter - Chelsea | 2021 | €115m |
| =11 | Ousmane Dembele | Borussia Dortmund - Barcelona | 2017 | €105m (+€40m) |
| =11 | Paul Pogba | Juventus - Manchester United | 2016 | €105m (+€5m) |
It's damning.
I mean, you obviously have the stats there unless you’re talking out of your arse (I’m sure you aren’t) so yeah, much easier for you to post your link here to anyone following the thread rather than every individual interested in the answer having to go search for it themselves
How hard is it to link your stats Champ?
I know you're deliberately being obtuse, and that's fine because the stats are there in black and white online should you really care that much.I mean, you obviously have the stats there unless you’re talking out of your arse (I’m sure you aren’t) so yeah, much easier for you to post your link here to anyone following the thread rather than every individual interested in the answer having to go search for it themselves
How hard is it to link your stats Champ?
Quality midfielder for sure Does a lot of things right. But no way is he worth the kind of money that Arsenal paid for him. The inflation in the transfer fees of central midfielders in the Premier League is a thing to behold
But what rodri does is the norm for a top team, he's just very good at it.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2015
- Messages
- 18,554
- Supports
- ️
Who do you class as the top teams and what do you think their central defensive midfielders do?
Rice is a the Waitrose Scott Parker.
Tearing round the pitch like a spitfire captain.
Ruddy good show old boy, just a shame you look shagged after 60 mins because you've been chasing the ball like a Labrador.
Tearing round the pitch like a spitfire captain.
Ruddy good show old boy, just a shame you look shagged after 60 mins because you've been chasing the ball like a Labrador.
There is no spreading falsehoods. He can play in that position without shadow of a doubt and that wouldn't matter or affect Arsenal in negative way looking at how they want to play. Rice is ok player. He collects ball behind Odegaard and Havertz and plays it sideways or backwards. He is no 100+m player. He doesn't have the skill to be 100+m player. He is what Souness said about Casemiro. A Steady Eddie. Something a lot of players can be.
I don't care if Arsenal have more or less points with him this year. It is a team game. What is important to see is that when those 3 upfront with Odegaard and Havertz behind doesn't score Rice is getting exposed. It is always nice to sit in the backseat of a car and let someone else drive it in a storm. It is different thing when you need to drive it by yourself.
I know you’re being deliberately awkward, no idea why?
Where on Earth do I compare last seasons first 19 to this? We aren’t all stato nerds.
Real Madrid, Barcelona (they are declining though), psg, Bayern, city, Liverpool (but they don't use a rodri or rice type of midfielder).
One team massively underperformed their xPTS last season (close to a 10-points negative differential) because they weren't taking their chances (scored about 10 fewer goals than they could have). The same team is currently overperforming the same statistic massively (close to a 10-points positive differential) because they're enjoying a good spell of form. What is this obsession some people have with a single player?
Again, Google is your friend, plenty of stat websites out there, fbref, whoscored etc.
I'm not being awkward, just would rather you see for yourself, that way you might understand it better rather then just trying to be smart and obtuse.
Can't you just say what the chance conceded stat is after 19 games for the two seasons?
Would make it a lot easier.
You say that but there’s people on here who called this. West Ham were dropping points last season because having Rice in their side was like playing at Anfield every game but v same to weaker opposition. There’s very few games that top to upper medium type sides needs a pure DM in. West Ham would be playing at home to Bournemouth and ceding midfield control because Rice was doing his extra CB role and it hurt them.
Arsenal simply don’t need Rice for games like yesterday, a less competent DM but who has more about him with the ball at his feet would have been a lot handier to have
Explain Casemiro’s career then?
Don't blame me.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2015
- Messages
- 18,554
- Supports
- ️
Who in your mind is the defensive midfielder for:
Madrid
Barcelona
PSG
Bayern
Liverpool
And what do you think they do in that role?
Yeah, right. Because we haven't seen a Moyes side going through a good spell of form only to regress back to the mean before. You do realize that, last season in the PL, Rice was 2nd in progressive distance covered (Rodri was first) and 6th in progressive passes (just 6 fewer than KdB) and covered much more distance per game than any of Arsenal's midfielders in 22/23, right? Not bad for a "pure" DM that looks more like a centre-half...
I think it's tongue in cheek.
KDB barely played? Also progressive distance? Wtf is that?
Rice was never some mega talent. He was released by Chelsea as a 14 year old, and then had to switch to the ROI just to get some youth caps at the international level - because he knew he didn't have enough talent to standout in the English setup.