Declan Rice | Arsenal £105m player

[golden_blunder]

Not arguing he isn’t.
I’m saying for 105m we’re allowed to expect a lot more than what he’s been showing.

But then you need to reset your expectations. Arsenal knew exactly what they were investing in, they know his strengths and what he’d bring to the team. If that doesn’t match up with you, then you need to review your expectations. It’s no longer just attacking players that cost big money

 

[The_Midfielder]

He would have been useful in our team

 

[ICB]

But then you need to reset your expectations. Arsenal knew exactly what they were investing in, they know his strengths and what he’d bring to the team. If that doesn’t match up with you, then you need to review your expectations. It’s no longer just attacking players that cost big money

Absolutely this.

I think the biggest problem people have with Rice is their own expectations of what you get from a player at this price, and I don’t blame them. Prices like these shouldn’t exist at all for any player, but fans can stomach it when it’s for a brilliant attacker who is giving them optical orgasms from their attacking play.

Its much harder to justify when it’s not a flare player, a creative mastermind or a huge goal threat. However, as you said this is the price for any top class player in this era of football, from back to front. Even keepers now. Look at Kepa ffs he cost £70m!

It’s just the way the game is now. The sooner people realise this, the more you would start to appreciate how fantastic of a signing this guy is.

 

[Taribo's Gap]

Absolutely this.

I think the biggest problem people have with Rice is their own expectations of what you get from a player at this price, and I don’t blame them. Prices like these shouldn’t exist at all for any player, but fans can stomach it when it’s for a brilliant attacker who is giving them optical orgasms from their attacking play.

Its much harder to justify when it’s not a flare player, a creative mastermind or a huge goal threat. However, as you said this is the price for any top class player in this era of football, from back to front. Even keepers now. Look at Kepa ffs he cost £70m!

It’s just the way the game is now. The sooner people realise this, the more you would start to appreciate how fantastic of a signing this guy is.

Meh, there is definitely a bit of revisionism going on. There was definitely a contingent of Arsenal fans that expected Rice to play more as dynamic 8 or box-to-box type, especially because Partey was already there as the 6 and they spent most of last season telling everyone how Partey was one of the best in the league at that role . There was a narrative going around that due to the way West Ham played, Rice was never able to demonstrate the full complement of his abilities and he had "a lot more to his game", particularly on the offensive side.

The prospect of this unlocked latent potential, when combined with his demonstrated defensive capabilities, was then used to rationalize the price tag by these fans (admittedly not all). So now what is happening is that you have these weird contortions to hype up any paltry offensive contribution he makes (and his overall performances) because that realized potential was supposed to make it all make sense.

Like people have said, if he just plays his usual game, solidifies Arsenal defensively and contributes to them winning major trophies, then the price tag will not matter very much. At the moment, the contortions are funny to watch though. He does also still have time to show his more expansive game once he grows more into the team. It's just not what we're seeing now.

 

[Changeisgood]

Saka is the most consistent player in the team and is close to the world class.
Saliba and Odegaard closely follows that. But most Arsenal fans would say that of all players in the team Martinelli has the highest ceiling. There is no saying if he gets any close to that but in terms of raw attributes and skillset he has higher ceiling than say Saka.

With regards to Rice/Partey,
Rice is actually (significantly) worse than Partey while progressing the ball. There is no question there but he provides few other things like he is always available and defensively he is (much) better than Partey. But the biggest thing is he basically always drops 7+ performances and most of the times 8+. With Partey you will get anywhere between 4 - 9.5
Basically Rice has a higher floor. That Gilberto Silva comparison someone made was really good. I agree he is no Viera/Keane atleast not yet.
I am not his fan (not yet) but he has exceeded my expectations.

Pretty much how I see it right now. I was definitely not sold on him either. The fee was massive and I did not think he could work with Partey. It is clear the club never saw him as a Xhaka replacement, they had Havertz pencilled in for that. Still do not understand the logic completely there but maybe there is another purchase in that area in the works.

Personally, I feel Saliba is our first potential world class player. So composed, makes it look effortless out there. I would not trade him for any CB in the PL. We have a fantastic CB pairing, the best we have had in a long time and I find Rice actually protects them more overall than Partey. Very different players though indeed. I don't really want to see Partey at RB anymore. That was a terrible experiment.

 

[AshRK]

He would have been useful in our team

He would have been eaten alive for such price if he was playing for us. One average game and he would have been pronounced as a flop.

 

[GoonerGirly]

Meh, there is definitely a bit of revisionism going on. There was definitely a contingent of Arsenal fans that expected Rice to play more as dynamic 8 or box-to-box type, especially because Partey was already there as the 6 and they spent most of last season telling everyone how Partey was one of the best in the league at that role . There was a narrative going around that due to the way West Ham played, Rice was never able to demonstrate the full complement of his abilities and he had "a lot more to his game", particularly on the offensive side.

Not sure about this as we also bought Havertz, who Arteta wants to make the 8 (obviously not working so far). I think Rice is Partey's replacement as I expect his days are numbered with us, plus he's often injured so can't be relied upon over the course of the season.

TBH though, I don't think Arteta shoehorns players in one position and don't think he's really figured out his best midfield yet (Partey being injured hasn't helped). I'm sure if everyone is available, there will be times where he wants Havertz or Vieira as the 8, and other times Rice. Will depend on the opponent and game state.

 

[cesc's_mullet]

He would have been eaten alive for such price if he was playing for us. One average game and he would have been pronounced as a flop.

And you don't think he'd be branded that by you and everyone else once he has some poor form? Or does that only happen at United?

I take it you didn't read this thread before he signed, as he was signing, and after he signed.

 

[CannonBalls]

Pretty much how I see it right now. I was definitely not sold on him either. The fee was massive and I did not think he could work with Partey. It is clear the club never saw him as a Xhaka replacement, they had Havertz pencilled in for that. Still do not understand the logic completely there but maybe there is another purchase in that area in the works.

Personally, I feel Saliba is our first potential world class player. So composed, makes it look effortless out there. I would not trade him for any CB in the PL. We have a fantastic CB pairing, the best we have had in a long time and I find Rice actually protects them more overall than Partey. Very different players though indeed. I don't really want to see Partey at RB anymore. That was a terrible experiment.

Yes, even I wouldn't trade him for any other defender. But in terms of ceiling I would still put Martinelli higher although at their current level Saliba is better.
Martinelli Saliba Saka Odegaard that is the ceiling potential order for me.

Also I have a feeling in 2-3 yrs when Madrid/PSG comes calling Saliba might (sadly) move on. With Martinelli Saka Odegaard its not that big a concern for various reasons.

 

[wr8_utd]

He is exactly what arsenal need, to help grind out the results which they wouldn’t have last season. Good signing for them

Again, this is completely untrue. Arsenal grind out wins every year and then people say "this is not a match they'd win last year." Arsenal won plenty of matches they were average in last year and that's continued this year.

 

[CloneMC16]

Casemiro was brilliant last season and carried us alone in so many games, last season alone is worth it what we paid for him, let's not talk bollocks about his transfer.

Playing well for half a season at most is not worth £60m+. Unless it's going to win us a PL or CL, it's not worth it. We got a CL place, but we're probably getting knocked out anyway.

Rice would have been a much better signing, but we couldn't afford that.

 

[AshRK]

And you don't think he'd be branded that by you and everyone else once he has some poor form? Or does that only happen at United?

I take it you didn't read this thread before he signed, as he was signing, and after he signed.

He is and that has been the norm made by the media or are we suddenly going to deny the treatment that the likes of Maguire and Pogba received after similar performances like rice.

 

[golden_blunder]

Again, this is completely untrue. Arsenal grind out wins every year and then people say "this is not a match they'd win last year." Arsenal won plenty of matches they were average in last year and that's continued this year.

You make it sound like I am attributing only Rice to those wins. However my wording says “help to grind out..” which is true, he’s not an attacker, he’s there to plug gaps and do the dirty jobs so that the others can play forward with confidence. What is wrong with that?

 

[golden_blunder]

He would have been eaten alive for such price if he was playing for us. One average game and he would have been pronounced as a flop.

That boils down to our fans giving credence to nonsense written by click bait journos and nonsense written on social media

 

[AshRK]

That boils down to our fans giving credence to nonsense written by click bait journos and nonsense written on social media

And that's why I said, had he been signed by us , people would have called his same performance average and you will see talksport, espn, others run with it.

 

[RedC]

I'm not personally seeing this transformative impact that some people seem to, he's a good player and will continue to be, Arsenal won the game with a jammy deflection, with City looking a bit inept without a few key players(Arsenal had some missing too, of course).

If they win the league, he will be deemed worth it, regardless of whether he's majorly responsible for it, or not. I still think they could have spent half the money on a decent DM and then tried to get more goals into the team, but they're doing ok on that front as is, to be fair.

 

[Ekeke]

Absolute nonsense. He was ok, like the rest of the players yesterday. Not every game has an outstanding performance etc (which may be a disappointment to some). Arsenal were rubbish in the first half, and not much better in the second. City were way off it, and no Rodri and no KDB (and no Gundoghan) will always be a huge factor.

But no, no, it's all about Declan Rice to some. Maybe they didn't see the game against Lens in the week.

Saliba was excellent against Haaland, and Saka is the man at that club. They are a different team without him. Odegaard too. Rice, in my opinion is no better than Partey.

Says more about you

 

[cesc's_mullet]

He is and that has been the norm made by the media or are we suddenly going to deny the treatment that the likes of Maguire and Pogba received after similar performances like rice.

Your victim complex is showing. This happens at every big club with almost every expensive signing.

"Or are we suddenly going to deny the treatment the likes of Havertz received..."

 

[gaffs]

Thought he was solid yesterday. Gives other the freedom to play. Seems a good personality in that team.

Worth 105mil when he had a year left on his contract? Probably not. But for the role he was going to play, and Rice's league experience, it was a surefire bet that he would come in and do well. People forget he is 24.

Casemiro is reportedly on an extra $100k a week than Rice - over $20mil over the 4 year contract. The Rice package is a better deal, imo.

 

[GoonerGirly]

I'm not personally seeing this transformative impact that some people seem to, he's a good player and will continue to be, Arsenal won the game with a jammy deflection, with City looking a bit inept without a few key players(Arsenal had some missing too, of course).

If they win the league, he will be deemed worth it, regardless of whether he's majorly responsible for it, or not. I still think they could have spent half the money on a decent DM and then tried to get more goals into the team, but they're doing ok on that front as is, to be fair.

The impact is that we're no longer so reliant on Partey, who unfortunately just cannot stay fit. Partey has probably been our most important player since he's arrived, our level drops when he's out or off form. I never would have imagined we'd beat City (even a weakened one) without him, but we have. And kept a clean sheet to boot.

I'm not sure who a "decent DM" would have been that could fill Partey's shoes like Rice has for a fraction of the price.

 

[AshRK]

Your victim complex is showing. This happens at every big club with almost every expensive signing.

"Or are we suddenly going to deny the treatment the likes of Havertz received..."

Who is showing anything about victim complex, you are just overthinking here. I am just saying the same United fans who are praising him would have asked more from him for 105m. Or are you pretending you know more about United fans than a United fan.

 

[GoonerGirly]

Who is showing anything about victim complex, you are just overthinking here. I am just saying the same United fans who are praising him would have asked more from him for 105m. Or are you pretending you know more about United fans than a United fan.

What "more" exactly are you asking for? We're joint top of the league, lost only 1 game in all competitions and just did City for the first time in forever. Were you expecting him to be Zidane?

 

[cesc's_mullet]

Who is showing anything about victim complex, you are just overthinking here. I am just saying the same United fans who are praising him would have asked more from him for 105m. Or are you pretending you know more about United fans than a United fan.

You didn't mention the fans, you mentioned the media - "He is and that has been the norm made by the media..."

 

[AshRK]

You didn't mention the fans, you mentioned the media - "He is and that has been the norm made by the media..."

And you deny that. Have you seen how the same media have already called Mount a flop. Or Onana is already the worst keeper to play in epl.

 

[90 + 5min]

Once again people talking how good he was when he was ok. Nothing less or more. People do love to make him bigger player than he is.

 

[cesc's_mullet]

And you deny that. Have you seen how the same media have already called Mount a flop. Or Onana is already the worst keeper to play in epl.

No, I'm no denying anything. I'm pointing out that this stuff happens to players at every big club. Look at Mudryk, Havertz, Pepe, etc. You're acting like this only happens at United, which was my initial response was addressing. It's a victim complex.

 

[Jeffthered]

Says more about you

Christ, what a comment. If you wish to elaborate please do, but please, may I ask that you keep the discussion about football. Personal comments,, directed at people who you do not know, on any open online forum , is simply pathetic.

 

[Lash]

He's a good player, but people trying to justify his price tag is just silly. He never is, or will be, worth what they paid for him. He has improved their squad massively though, so that will probably bear some fruit for this season.

Had they spent 100m on a proper striker, I think that would have had a far bigger impact on the team. Heck, even 150m and sacked off Havertz too.

 

[GoonerGirly]

Once again people talking how good he was when he was ok. Nothing less or more. People do love to make him bigger player than he is.

He had 90% pass accuracy
4 ground duels won
3 interceptions
3 tackles won
2 key passes
2/3 long balls completed
2 clearances and 1 goal line clearance

We kept a clean sheet against Pep's City, which we've never done. Ever. Hardly gave them a sniff and Haaland did not have a shot. I heard somewhere that it's only the second time since he arrived that he didn't have one shot on goal. Of course our defence in general was superb but Rice has a huge part in that.

 

[GoonerGirly]

Had they spent 100m on a proper striker, I think that would have had a far bigger impact on the team. Heck, even 150m and sacked off Havertz too.

Striker is our next priority. Think we needed Rice (or a DM) first because Xhaka left and Partey cannot be relied upon over the course of a season.

 

[AshRK]

No, I'm no denying anything. I'm pointing out that this stuff happens to players at every big club. Look at Mudryk, Havertz, Pepe, etc. You're acting like this only happens at United, which was my initial response was addressing. It's a victim complex.

No I am not acting that it only happens at United.. i am in fact pointing out how it has become a common habit how to write off players. I don't follow enough arsenal media news but I have seen how media and fans have questioned united players after a mere 2 or 3 games. That's why I responded to the poster suggesting the same performance by rice would have been termed an average one here.

 

[Daydreamer]

He's a good player, but people trying to justify his price tag is just silly. He never is, or will be, worth what they paid for him. He has improved their squad massively though, so that will probably bear some fruit for this season.

Had they spent 100m on a proper striker, I think that would have had a far bigger impact on the team. Heck, even 150m and sacked off Havertz too.

The leagues three most expensive signings are all deeper lying midfielders. City have the most “proper striker” out there, but when Rodri was suspended for three games they lost all three.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love us to sign Osimhen in the Summer. But the idea that only goal scorers are worth paying top money for is pretty dated.

 

[Changeisgood]

Yes, even I wouldn't trade him for any other defender. But in terms of ceiling I would still put Martinelli higher although at their current level Saliba is better.
Martinelli Saliba Saka Odegaard that is the ceiling potential order for me.

Also I have a feeling in 2-3 yrs when Madrid/PSG comes calling Saliba might (sadly) move on. With Martinelli Saka Odegaard its not that big a concern for various reasons.

Yes, I think that has been the worry with Saliba for quite a while, that he will leave one day soon. I am not sure as he seem genuinely at home. He could have switched this year but instead chose to sign a much better contract. We will have to see, we have an extremely strong core that should only get better. I think it would be Real, not sure much else could lure him.

With you on Martinelli, the guy has a very high ceiling, and it's a shame still a lot of Arsenal supporters do not see that.

 

[Scandi Red]

He's a staple midfielder.

 

[Powderfinger]

The leagues three most expensive signings are all deeper lying midfielders. City have the most “proper striker” out there, but when Rodri was suspended for three games they lost all three.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love us to sign Osimhen in the Summer. But the idea that only goal scorers are worth paying top money for is pretty dated.

Yeah, agreed.

You also can look at how much Liverpool began to struggle when Fabinho fell apart overnight and Spurs being on an upswing with Bissouma playing well.

The game has evolved in a direction where DM players who have the combination of (1) the physicality and athleticism to dominate duels and defend transitions (2) the football intelligence to be a fulcrum within increasingly sophisticated and complicated tactical systems and (3) enough technical ability to be a source of progressive play within a possession based team are worth their weight in gold.

These players are not easy to find. As far as (3) goes, Rice obviously lags some other midfielders in terms of passing range and quality but he is better than many think and there are few better in terms of carrying the ball at this position. And he is one of the very best in the world at (1) and Arteta seems to think he has the mentality to be great in terms of (2).

Not regretting 105m one bit.

 

[Lash]

Striker is our next priority. Think we needed Rice (or a DM) first because Xhaka left and Partey cannot be relied upon over the course of a season.

You definitely needed a DM, but not sure it meant you had to spend 105m on one to have the same effect.

The leagues three most expensive signings are all deeper lying midfielders. City have the most “proper striker” out there, but when Rodri was suspended for three games they lost all three.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love us to sign Osimhen in the Summer. But the idea that only goal scorers are worth paying top money for is pretty dated.

Just because they're expensive doesn't mean they're worth it, Chelsea's bought two of them and still don't look good. You've also bought Rice, but also dropped more points overall compared to the same fixtures last season.

I'm more saying the impact on your squad, rather than strikers can be the only ones bought for big money. You only have a 1 in 3 striker as your main striker, it's clear that's where you were missing something. You decided to spend 165m on an area that didn't really need that much upgrading (if you see Havertz as the Xhaka replacement), I think it will prove to be a poor decision.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

What "more" exactly are you asking for?

Passing the ball forward, like

 

[Daydreamer]

You definitely needed a DM, but not sure it meant you had to spend 105m on one to have the same effect.

Just because they're expensive doesn't mean they're worth it, Chelsea's bought two of them and still don't look good. You've also bought Rice, but also dropped more points overall compared to the same fixtures last season.

I'm more saying the impact on your squad, rather than strikers can be the only ones bought for big money. You only have a 1 in 3 striker as your main striker, it's clear that's where you were missing something. You decided to spend 165m on an area that didn't really need that much upgrading (if you see Havertz as the Xhaka replacement), I think it will prove to be a poor decision.

A lot of fair points, there.

I think it’s understanble to look at Jesus/Nketiah and Partey/Xhaka and come to the conclusion that £170m would be far better spent improving on the former than the latter. But Arsenal scored 88 goals last season - only 6 fewer than City. City themselves have had more prolific seasons than last season. And channeling everything through an elite striker is not without its downsides. They can get injured, go out of form or, somewhat relevantly, be so starved of service from midfield that they don’t register a single shot.

 

[Lash]

A lot of fair points, there.

I think it’s understanble to look at Jesus/Nketiah and Partey/Xhaka and come to the conclusion that £170m would be far better spent improving on the former than the latter. But Arsenal scored 88 goals last season - only 6 fewer than City. City themselves have had more prolific seasons than last season. And channeling everything through an elite striker is not without its downsides. They can get injured, go out of form or, somewhat relevantly, be so starved of service from midfield that they don’t register a single shot.

Also a fair point, but do think that can be leveled at any signing, rather than just a striker.

I may be eating my words come end of the season, but the Lens game for me showed even if Rice has a good game, he's not winning you matches. Maybe that's flipped on its head in the big matches, but I also didn't think that was truly where you were lacking last season.

 

[Changeisgood]

You definitely needed a DM, but not sure it meant you had to spend 105m on one to have the same effect.

Just because they're expensive doesn't mean they're worth it, Chelsea's bought two of them and still don't look good. You've also bought Rice, but also dropped more points overall compared to the same fixtures last season.

I'm more saying the impact on your squad, rather than strikers can be the only ones bought for big money. You only have a 1 in 3 striker as your main striker, it's clear that's where you were missing something. You decided to spend 165m on an area that didn't really need that much upgrading (if you see Havertz as the Xhaka replacement), I think it will prove to be a poor decision.

Actually, I think we are up on points from last year now.

Home Spurs - 2
Home Fulham -2
Away Everton +3
Home City +3

Net + 2