I think he will still win the game for his team, which is what matters. You are again and again portraying him as a player who can only show his best in one setup, which he isn't!
Decades Draft Tournament : VP vs Isotope
- Thread starter Moby
- Start date
I think he will still win the game for his team, which is what matters. You are again and again portraying him as a player who can only show his best in one setup, which he isn't!
But he starts there for Barcelona, why has he started central for you? There must be a reason and it leads me to think he wont be playing on the left as much as he does for Barcelona (or won't be able to).
Yeah right. Because Bobby Moore and Gentile are the equivalent of Titus Bramble and Huth
.When was van Nistelrooy bagging a hatrick against worldclass centerback pair? even when we had Beckham, the best crosser of all time, and Giggs on the other side?
Right we aren't going to agree so lets just leave it.
You think Maradona would play his best football on the right, I think he will play his best football in the middle.
Let's leave it at that, because I am never going to agree with you there.
Yeah right. Because Bobby Moore and Gentile are the equivalent of Titus Bramble and Huth
When was van Nistelrooy bagging a hatrick against worldclass centerback pair? even when we had Beckham, the best crosser of all time, and Giggs on the other side?
Yeah damn right, Ronaldo and Gento playing against a narrow team with barely any protection, can't compete with Giggs and Beckham
Where did I put him in the middle? I put him on the left of midfield (in the OP as I haven't asked it to be changed yet). Anyway, I put him on the left midfield, but you still voted the other team. I might put him on the middle, and yet you still criticized him there. Are you here just for the shake of arguing?
I just came back from the weekend and see both games I missed were a car crash. Stob vs. kps was a one-sided one page affair, so excuse me for trying to work out what is happening on the pitch and trying to actually make this more interesting.
If what you are suggesting is I have some sort of agenda here, think twice. Theon would be mental not to go for Ronaldo and Brwned is evidently primed for Best to replace his one-game wonder (Dzajic). Both would have to take major defensive risks to take on a 60s player as they have two defenders from the 60s starting. That would mean Maradona falling straight on my lap. Why would I want Iso to win?
I made that point about his role in a side which had Kalle upfront and a Tardelli-Neeskens midfield pair. You would always invariably play Pelé in his favoured role there, not in a side which had Laudrup/Maradona and not much to write home about upfront. Thus the change in role. It was a no-brainer to play him as 10 in one and 9 in the other.
He will play at his best in both positions, no question. If you don't believe me go ask Paolo Maldini who gave him his worst nightmare when he was playing as a LB.
As I said earlier, you are being totally pedantic here when on the other hand when it comes to your players you completely change your tone. Pirlo has also been at his best in a diamond but you played him in a 4-3-3 and argued that he will still be influential given his attributes, which is what I am doing for Diego here, don't see how the two scenarios are different.
This is a fantasy draft, obviously many times players will be played in positions which are not the most familiar for them, but as long as they are competent enough to perform that role, why should there be an issue?
Yeah damn right, Ronaldo and Gento playing against a narrow team with barely any protection, can't compete with Giggs and Beckham
Mine is as narrow as your team on the champions league draft.
What?!
Where he is in your formation isn't where he plays for Barcelona and doesn't even give the impression that he would be performing a similar role. Fwiw, I'd like to see Iniesta as a lam or cam, for your team in particular lam.
They are completely different sides!
I had a proven all Italian system that worked together with two pressing CM's either side of the holder.
It got brought up in EVERY game I played - Gattuso presses the right winger, De Rossi the left. You do not have that here.
The one time I dropped De Rossi and went with Xavi as the presser I got slated for it.
I explained why the two situations are different, and I dont think Pirlo would mind playing with another possession player who plays in a different position.
Teamsheets try depict notional roles and average positions as best as possible. It never crossed my mind Iniesta would stay in midfield when his side is in possession but drift to a LAM role through periods of dominance. His midfield position indicates he has a job to do in the recovery effort. If you think otherwise and assume he just sits there in midfield you are underrating Iniesta's intelligence as a player.
You have the right to your opinion, it goes completely against the impression we got about the issue during the last draft though. I agree Maradona will still be all over this game though, just not as much as if he was central and didn't have Baggio twiddling his thumbs around him.
The last question is self explanatory, lots of people place importance on familiarity of roles in this draft and the opposition is usually so tough that 'competent enough' isn't enough.
But he has never done that and that is completely your reasoning that he will do okay. Not going into whether he would or would not, you are not using evidence for Pirlo but you are bent on using evidence for Diego, saying he has always done well behind the striker. I don't see that as consistent at all, and specially as 1) Diego has played the free role plenty of times and 2) there is no one in the opposition to take care of him in either roles.
Theon is right here Iso. Where I disagree with him though is on his insistence there must always be two DMs doing that. Those two were protecting Pirlo, here there isn't a Pirlo but a Makelele, so obviously the defensive setup will differ.
Ronaldo Luis I mean. 70s, straight swap for Pirlo and an upgrade on Greaves. Are you sure?
And importance should be placed on it, it is the right thing to do. But if there is clear logic in saying that a player has the required skillset to perform a particular role as good as can be asked, which Diego does here, I don't see the need to be pedantic for the sake of it. He has showed the world how he was world class in several attributes and I am doing nothing but giving him credit for that. Plus he's done well in his role that is being discussed. I honestly don't see any issue.
I don't disagree with the second part, you're never going to 'take care' of him because he is just one of those players.
On the Pirlo point - its completely different because Pirlo is playing in his best role, as a deep lying playmaker.
You're acting as though I moved him to centre mid or something like that which is complete bollocks. Pirlo is playing the exact game he has always played, it isnt just a diamond that he needs to thrive in - look at Juve.
Absolutely, depends on the opposition but that isn't high on my list of moves at all - as much as I love him.
Iniesta and Baggio can either go left or central. It's not like I put a 20 meters chain that they can't go to any space they can exploit.
Watch where Iniesta here. Is he just running in one certain area? Iniesta - Busquets - Xavi ----> Iniesta - Makelele - Coluna
I just came back from the weekend and see both games I missed were a car crash. Stob vs. kps was a one-sided one page affair, so excuse me for trying to work out what is happening on the pitch and trying to actually make this more interesting.
If what you are suggesting is I have some sort of agenda here, think twice. Theon would be mental not to go for Ronaldo and Brwned is evidently primed for Best to replace his one-game wonder (Dzajic). Both would have to take major defensive risks to take on a 60s player as they have two defenders from the 60s starting. That would mean Maradona falling straight on my lap. Why would I want Iso to win?
I made that point about his role in a side which had Kalle upfront and a Tardelli-Neeskens midfield pair. You would always invariably play Pelé in his favoured role there, not in a side which had Laudrup/Maradona and not much to write home about upfront. Thus the change in role. It was a no-brainer to play him as 10 in one and 9 in the other.
Not suggesting anything of the sort, just saying that people have gone to lengths to try and explain iso's odd formation yet he hasn't confirmed any of them or put similar arguments forward himself, as far as I can see. Your paranoid.
Nah, the point wasn't made in relation to NMs team, it was about Maradona perhaps being played left (similar things were suggested that Maradona could affect the game from the side anyway) and it was met by "oh yes, shunt the best number ten of all time onto the left".
There's a lot more to a player's influence than his position on the pitch. A player like Pirlo has his limits which is why every manager has used him in a diamond where he has plenty of support from midfield in terms of work rate and defensive ability, your system clearly doesn't match that. Anyway this isn't the thread to discuss that, we'll get back to it during your game, point is if you agree he will influence in a set up in which he hasn't been at his best, you should not be complaining about Diego moving few yards from his apparent best position!
Read that again and have a think.
Every manager has not used Pirlo in a diamond. And he has done fine.
As I've said a couple of times, let's not derail this thread going into Pirlo's career details. Point is, he was at his best in a diamond, not a 4-3-3. If you can be pedantic enough to disqualify maradona's best because he's playing on the right, you should not be saying the opposite when it comes to your player!
I'd expect him to contribute in the recovery effort from his usual left AM position too, he does so usually.
If you don't want to discuss Pirlo's career details then don't fecking bring him up
Many people think his best season was 2011-12 with Juventus when he won Serie A Player of the Year.
Was that a diamond? No.
If you don't want to discuss Pirlo's career details then don't fecking bring him up
Many people think his best season was 2011-12 with Juventus. Was that a diamond? No.
The irony was too obvious to let it go.
You used the word "campaigning" earlier so I thought it was a worthwhile clarification, just in case.
I was responding to Theon arguing about Pelé as 9 or 10 though. I may well have said that about Maradona TBH, I also prefer him central of course and I made a pretty neat Venn diagram when telling Iso there was no point in Baggio. I don't think Baggio is stopping him from running riot though, just that Baggio is pretty redundant. I don't think he is getting on the way, just turned into a second striker that drops deep to help put together moves if needed.
My issue, was you implying that Maradona would be completely unaffected by not playing central (you then admitted his passing options would be a little more limited) when I think he would be at least slightly affected. Also, thought it was worth picking up on considering what we've heard about the subject before and the importance of building a team as fittingly as possible.
You might not think Baggio running around neither here or there (is he right or left?), always having to pass to Maradona etc isn't a problem for a team but I do, it's essentially playing with ten and a half players as it is.
Maybe I should start bumming VPs side then
I would love Ronaldo but I don't think its a goer. Jairzinho wasn't getting huge credit so I might go for Best
Instant vote winner and I would love to have Besty in my team, plus its a nice easy 40's/40's swap
And you don't mind VP has only Deschamp there to protect their defence?
That's all I was getting at really, that he is at his best in the centre. I didn't say he wouldn't be influencing the game and I don't think many others said that either. Aldo seemed to think otherwise so I decided to make my point in response.
That's mainly to say how great he is and how he can give his "best" in many different setups. He can be at his "best" threading through balls splitting defenses if played behind three direct runners and he can also be at his "best" being the runner himself, taking on defenders or passing his way high up the pitch instead of hollywood balls from the deep. His best time in his club career at Napoli he was a part of a trio up front like he is here, combining all his abilities to the best effect and occupying several areas on the pitch depending on the need of the game.
Yeah, it is an issue though I seem to rate Scholes' defensive work more than most. Iv already voted for VP because I think overall he has a better team/tactics etc, doesn't mean to say his teams perfect.
I don't think you pressed his case enough though. As I mentioned then, I could see him causing far more devastation than Ronaldinho. He was more direct, he would have gone straight for goal and there's only one thing worse than a disciplined and industrious midfielder given a RB man-marking role: a LB who is completely out of his depth yet thinks he is the dog's bollocks.
I thought the muppet in you would be happy enough with Ronaldo, or Matthaus to strengthen the midfield. TBH, I'm stunned you are considering Best and breaking up the Brazilian wing duo.