Agree about Krol, another great player that probably isn't getting the credit he deserves.
Reina didn't make it to the final by the way.
Reina didn't make it to the final by the way.
Decades Draft Tournament : VP vs Isotope
- Thread starter Moby
- Start date
Agree with this. He was an excellent technical finisher who was good for 20 goals a season in a mean Serie A and, combined with an ability to play high up the park, means it could work.
Perhaps iso should've started with a diamond in that case.
Exactly. When Iso picked him I mentioned straight away he must be thinking of him as a second striker, not the creative hub getting in Maradona's way.
Some United nostalgia and hopefully a late vote booster.
He really was a cracking striker, so good that even 'LFCtommie' makes videos of him.
He really was a cracking striker, so good that even 'LFCtommie' makes videos of him.
But on the same basis you wanted Iniesta's LAM role to also be represented differently. What next? Fullbacks next to the oppo's corner flag?
You need a criterion for putting together the teamsheet. You seem to insist on the positioning being set by what they do in attack when I think it is the complete opposite. A teamsheet and the team's shape is far more important when they go about their main organised and disciplined activity: defending and recovering the ball.
That's why Iniesta is accurately portrayed in a central midfield pair and so is Baggio, who would certainly be offering the left side of the field outball while Maradona does the same on the right and it is Sheva keeping the defenders from moving high up the pitch.
Once you consider how effective that tactical disposition is at recovering the ball you imagine (ideally with the manager's help, agreed) how the players will move on to an attacking setup and that's when you see what isn't on the teamsheet: Iniesta pushing up to LAM, Makele making it a two with Coluna, and Baggio playing just behind/alongside the striker but in nothing like a CAM role.
This result really has nothing to do with the quality of players on paper and together as a team. VP has highly benefited by the fact that his team instantly dwells confidence in the voters in the way it works while Iso's team needs a lot more detailed analysis and requires people to run it in their head to see how it will go forward. At the end once you see both teams functioning you can see Iso eventually doing enough to outscore VP, but a lot of times a vote is cast without that effort. Cannot blame the voters in any way and it is an important part of the game to be as clear with your ideas as possible and full credit to VP for that!
Are you deliberatly acting stupid? Iv made it clear how I think iso should've lined up, everything else were just alternative formations which may have put across 'his' tactical set up a bit better.
Maradona behind two strikers certainy would've done that, but yeah, Iniesta would've looked odd in that one too, no more odd than how he looks in the original formation though.
Maradona behind two strikers certainy would've done that, but yeah, Iniesta would've looked odd in that one too, no more odd than how he looks in the original formation though.
Worst thing is, he could've made it a lot simpler. Both by choosing a more conventional looking formation and by elaborating on his tactics a lot more.
Not sure about that, seems to me that one team is clearly far more functional than the other.
I don't think I have ever seen a team line up the way that Isotope has, which says something IMO.
VP on the other hand has a classic 4-2-3-1 system going on with every single player in their best position - like I said, one team clearly works, the other doesn't.
He could have but it is not something you can blame him for. He has set out his team that will get the best out of all his players ( I know you disagree, not getting into again) and it functions really well in my and several others' eyes. It is not obvious which has cost him the game probably but in the end I can clearly see why he went with that setup and I respect that.
I think a diamond would have been a better bet, but like Fergus says Iniesta isnt quite suited to that CM role in a diamond but it would have been a clearer tactic than this one I think.
Again, difference in opinion and would lead to the same circle we were in last night. I see it as functioning perfectly, many do, many don't. The difference is only that it is not obvious to some. No biggie really.
Yeah fair enough, we'll have to disagree.
This is really exaggerated though! You might think it will work but there is no way that team will function 'perfectly', christ.
The amount of stick I got in the last draft for playing Xavi in a diamond yet this travesty will work perfectly
BTW, I decided last night I wouldn't be voting here.
1) Iso got far more help from us than VP has. Nothing to hold against Iso as he didn't ask for it, it just looked dead and buried at 7-1. I've already weighed enough in Iso's favour, adding the vote would be paramount to ganging up on VP (and I still think his defence would be in all sorts of trouble).
2) VP is a good addition. He has done a bloody good job of assembling that team and recruiting the best manager ever to help him out. I wouldn't like to see him leave (yet
).
3) Iso is very happy with his new job and, as I said last night, it may be best if he doesn't get caught explaining tactics on redcafe on his first day.
Both managers are clearly very passionate about their teams and players and should be proud of their efforts whichever way this goes.
1) Iso got far more help from us than VP has. Nothing to hold against Iso as he didn't ask for it, it just looked dead and buried at 7-1. I've already weighed enough in Iso's favour, adding the vote would be paramount to ganging up on VP (and I still think his defence would be in all sorts of trouble).
2) VP is a good addition. He has done a bloody good job of assembling that team and recruiting the best manager ever to help him out. I wouldn't like to see him leave (yet
).3) Iso is very happy with his new job and, as I said last night, it may be best if he doesn't get caught explaining tactics on redcafe on his first day.
Both managers are clearly very passionate about their teams and players and should be proud of their efforts whichever way this goes.
VP is a great addition, he's made me laugh with a few things so far. Picking Ferguson to manage the team was a stroke of genius
Don't think that has ever been done in one of these drafts before.
Don't think that has ever been done in one of these drafts before.
I do see it as functioning perfectly, I am not alone either. Pat, Gio, anto etc all see it working. You have been way too pedantic in this one, no one is saying Iso couldn't have done better with his drafting but to say it is a travesty is what is actually exaggerated. To each his own... Maradona's got a free ride in here yet he's on the losing side.
Difference compared to yours is that his holding midfielder is the most defensive player, so it would be him with the most responsibility to cover his fullbacks (by dropping back and allowing the CBs to get across) and it might just be possible to get away with Iniesta in that CM role.
BTW, I decided last night I wouldn't be voting here.
1) Iso got far more help from us than VP has. Nothing to hold against Iso as he didn't ask for it, it just looked dead and buried at 7-1. I've already weighed enough in Iso's favour, adding the vote would be paramount to ganging up on VP (and I still think his defence would be in all sorts of trouble).
2) VP is a good addition. He has done a bloody good job of assembling that team and recruiting the best manager ever to help him out. I wouldn't like to see him leave (yet
3) Iso is very happy with his new job and, as I said last night, it may be best if he doesn't get caught explaining tactics on redcafe on his first day.
Both managers are clearly very passionate about their teams and players and should be proud of their efforts whichever way this goes.
You never fail to come up with reasonings unheard of do you
Good thinking that is.
Makelele would be playing that central DM position so different to Pirlo, but like you say as hes so defensive it could free up a CM spot for a more attacking player instead of Gattuso/De Rossi
That's the bit Fergus, I don't think the teamsheet was wrong and it is consistent with everything Iso has said (he has left much of how they redeploy themselves in attack to the imagination). If anything, I prefer the honesty of not going for something that looks more voter-friendly.
You're off your rocker mate, it might work but it isn't working perfectly. Hence all the criticism.
Isotope has the better players, is this system was working perfectly he would be winning 25-0
He'd be winning if I were the judge, which is why I voted for him. It would be comfortable, obviously not 25-0.
Yep exactly how I feel.
By the way this is another bottom in the order against top in the order team win, in all the games so far in the draft where two teams from opposite sides have met. Something is weird.
He could've gone for a rigid and symmetrical 4-2-3-1 and taken a hit on Baggio, but in practice player position is rarely that regimented.
Yeah fair enough, we'll have to disagree.
This is really exaggerated though! You might think it will work but there is no way that team will function 'perfectly', christ.
The amount of stick I got in the last draft for playing Xavi in a diamond yet this travesty will work perfectly
I agree it won't work perfectly, the defence in particular has looked a car crash to me throughout.
I think you are getting stuck on your diamond experience though. That was a diamond where the creation happened within the diamond and you lost one of Pirlo's protectors to add one more playmaker. This XMAS tree is only a XMAS tree as far as defensive positioning is concerned. Once on the ball the shape completely morphs, which isn't an issue as the playmaker is not Pirlo from deep but Maradona running riot further up the pitch.
They really aren't comparable, at all.
I would agree if the version he went for had significant advantages to the voter friendly one, yet it didn't.
I still think the 'odd' formation was an attempt to make it seem like Baggio would still be somewhere near his best in the game, and like I said, if that was a pressing issue for him then I would've opted for diamond. Ideally however it was best to just put Baggio on the right and say his main order will be to get into the box to finish the chances that Maradona will create.
Anyway this topic has been exhausted now, I'll end by saying there's no way in hell that this can be considered to be 'working perfectly'.
There was no way he would have survived with a diamond against these wingers. Didn't you see what happened with EDogen?!
And he hasn't survived with this tactic (from the look of it), hence neither were best and he should've probably gone 4231.
I saw brwned thoroughly out argue edogen (whose diamond also looked a bit wierd IMO, Thuram wingback etc, iso has Krol!)
I saw brwned thoroughly out argue edogen (whose diamond also looked a bit wierd IMO, Thuram wingback etc, iso has Krol!)
VP is a great addition, he's made me laugh with a few things so far. Picking Ferguson to manage the team was a stroke of genius
Don't think that has ever been done in one of these drafts before.
Yeah, that's what I was getting at telling him it was amasterstroke last night. I like the way he has taken to it like a fish to water and not taking himself too seriously. How many on here would have thought of appointing a player-manager to stop us from screwing things up?
You never fail to come up with reasonings unheard of do you
I still have a chip on my shoulder over Jayvin's game. I came in, explained my reasons, left the game as a draw and about half an hour later he was three votes down. Coincidence IMO, but it was a similar scenario to VPs in that he wasn't around to make his case as sajeev pointed out.
He was still in the reckoning, even took the lead at one point. Pretty sure most of you would have voted against him for the lack of width.
There was only one formation that would have been voter friendly was 4-2-3-1 with Baggio on the right doing nothing. and hoping people ignore that.
There was only one formation that would have been voter friendly was 4-2-3-1 with Baggio on the right doing nothing. and hoping people ignore that.
Makelele dropping into a defensive three is crucial to me. I see it straight away in the XMAS tree, it would be a hard sell to tell me one of the two CMs in a 4-2-3-1 is doing that because one of the 3 is replacing him.
Or something similar to what I think Real used to line up like, with two up front, Zidane coming in off the left and Figo in off the right. That would've worked better than what it is now.
Lack of width in the diamond? With Baggio and Sheva as the two up top and Krol and Leandro as wingbacks? I don't think so.
Yeah the 4-2-2-2 is an interesting option. Agreed that would have looked easier on the eye.
Yeah, the magic square. Still doesn't give me instant clarity on Makelele dropping into CB and is too reliant on people rating Krol and Leandro. If Iso came out saying he was relying on Krol and Leandro providing width I would really worry about the counter. In fact, you agreed with Theon straight away when he said that.
The teamsheet was fine, it just needed explaining and maybe a wee bit more patience from people waiting to hear from the manager. Iso's posting of various narrow teamsheets wasn't particularly articulate, in fairness. He may as well have posted England 66 while he was at it.
I just mentioned it as a general option, in this game it would be difficult to pull off though (hence why I voted for VP).
It's not about relying on them for width, naturally they would provide some, as would the two strikers.
6 page discussion with 34 posts combined from both managers.
Well, this is beyond Iso's reach now I reckon. When are we getting Gio vs. Cutch? That should be fun.
Half an hour to go for this. I'll keep that ready to be posted as soon as this one's done.