Dean Henderson | On loan at Forest | gives public outburst against United

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Him signing that extension could be a mistake for both parties. Our club is notorius for putting unrealistic valution on players and Deano is at risk of losing his most valuable time to learn how to be top goalie.

dinostar77 said:
De Gea can be changed in a few years time imho, no rush.
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Dave is 31 years old.
 
devilish said:
DDG won 4 Matt Busby player of the year award. He was the first goalkeeper to win it, the first player to win it three times in a row and the first player to win it 4 times. I think he's slightly better then tackles. SAF won a league title with DDG in goal and he had bailed out LVG and Mou in numerous occasions. Ole tried to replace him but he won his place back putting the most hyped bench player in United's history since Fabio Da Silva back to his place, erm, on the bench in the process.

I am not suggesting that DDG is the best keeper one can inspire to be. There's goalkeepers like Buffon for example who made VDS look like Taibi at Juventus. However he's an excellent goalkeeper who can serve us well up until we are in a position to replace him. The problem lie with our tactics. We play a high line with no DM to shield that, a LB that can't defend, a RB that can only defend (AWB) or can only attack (Dalot) and the slowest CB United had since Steve Bruce. That creates a huge gap between the back line and the goalkeeper that ANY goalkeeper would struggle with let alone an old fashioned type of goalkeeper such as DDG.
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My problem with De Gea is :
  1. He does well when the team is playing rubbish and with no control
  2. That sounds great like he is some Superman who is producing when no one else is - but why exactly is the team playing shit?
  3. Could De Gea actually be part of the reason the team is playing shit?
  4. If we get a goalkeeper that can actually come out of his lines once in a while - then does that allow our defenders to play further up the pitch?
  5. Does that improvement in our defense make our midfielders play better, further up the pitch and with more ease?
  6. What does that allow our forward line to do? Press more whilst literally being face to face with the opposition defensive line? Lack of need to drop back?
  7. For me De Gea is a strength upon a weakness - a weakness that he himself creates
  8. What about his inability to come out to handle and hold a corner or a free kick?
  9. Does this directly effect our counter attacks? If it does not then what about his average passing?
  10. De Gea makes a poor pass and slows down the attack.
  11. Could our attack be better from a more capable gK?
  12. He makes a poor kick that has lead to a poor first touch by the striker. Opposition have now got the ball and planning their own counter attack.
  13. What happens to the defense now that we were just attacking few moments ago?
  14. De Gea is not coming off his line so the rest of the team fall back and accepts the opposition’s attacking pressure like we are Norwich FC.
  15. Everyone is sitting back accepting the pressure and then De Gea makes a wonder save with his reflexes turning to another corner
  16. De gea doesn’t come to collect his corner and stays on the line whilst the opposition scores a header.
  17. De Gea is shouting, blaming the defenders for letting in the header because he has been making all the wonder saves by himself & he has been let down the defense.
  18. He smacks the posts with anger at the crap defense he has in front of him.
  19. De Gea wins the POTY Award.
  20. Rinse & Repeat.
 
Bebestation said:
My problem with De Gea is :
  1. He does well when the team is playing rubbish and with no control
  2. That sounds great like he is some Superman who is producing when no one else is - but why exactly is the team playing shit?
  3. Could De Gea actually be part of the reason the team is playing shit?
  4. If we get a goalkeeper that can actually come out of his lines once in a while - then does that allow our defenders to play further up the pitch?
  5. Does that improvement in our defense make our midfielders play better, further up the pitch and with more ease?
  6. What does that allow our forward line to do? Press more whilst literally being face to face with the opposition defensive line? Lack of need to drop back?
  7. For me De Gea is a strength upon a weakness - a weakness that he himself creates
  8. What about his inability to come out to handle and hold a corner or a free kick?
  9. Does this directly effect our counter attacks? If it does not then what about his average passing?
  10. De Gea makes a poor pass and slows down the attack.
  11. Could our attack be better from a more capable gK?
  12. He makes a poor kick that has lead to a poor first touch by the striker. Opposition have now got the ball and planning their own counter attack.
  13. What happens to the defense now that we were just attacking few moments ago?
  14. De Gea is not coming off his line so the rest of the team fall back and accepts the opposition’s attacking pressure like we are Norwich FC.
  15. Everyone is sitting back accepting the pressure and then De Gea makes a wonder save with his reflexes turning to another corner
  16. De gea doesn’t come to collect his corner and stays on the line whilst the opposition scores a header.
  17. De Gea is shouting, blaming the defenders for letting in the header because he has been making all the wonder saves by himself & he has been let down the defense.
  18. He smacks the posts with anger at the crap defense he has in front of him.
  19. De Gea wins the POTY Award.
  20. Rinse & Repeat.
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Christ some of you are mental. Framing every issue around the goalkeeper.

According to this forum out two best players in De Gea and Ronaldo are just out there damaging everyone else. As if the rest of the squad isn't a major fecking contributor.

You're blaming De Gea for the defence needing to drop back but we've seen time and time again it's our midfield. In periods where our midfield is stable we've always had a higher line but confidence quickly erodes. Confidence for every team impacts how high up the pitch your line is.
 
Smores said:
Christ some of you are mental. Framing every issue around the goalkeeper.

According to this forum out two best players in De Gea and Ronaldo are just out there damaging everyone else. As if the rest of the squad isn't a major fecking contributor.

You're blaming De Gea for the defence needing to drop back but we've seen time and time again it's our midfield. In periods where our midfield is stable we've always had a higher line but confidence quickly erodes. Confidence for every team impacts how high up the pitch your line is.
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Well not every problem is because of de gea - but still i think some fans see how De Gea effects different levels of our team by the way he plays.

You think he has no influence on how our midfield play. i do. I mean just a poor goalkick or passes can let the already average midfield get to an even more of a crap start.
 
Bebestation said:
Well not every problem is because of de gea - but still i think some fans see how De Gea effects different levels of our team by the way he plays.

You think he has no influence on how our midfield play. i do. I mean just a poor goalkick or passes can let the already average midfield get to an even more of a crap start.
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Every player on the pitch influences our midfield play, of course they do. The point is there's a disproportionate influence assigned to De Gea because of the want for a modern goalie. The exact say happens with Ronaldo and they both get over criticised and under appreciated because of it.

We need to fix the fundamentals first and that's sorting out our midfielders then the defensive structure. Ten Hag will do both and then we'll fix the goalie if it becomes one of the fundamental issue.
 
Smores said:
Every player on the pitch influences our midfield play, of course they do. The point is there's a disproportionate influence assigned to De Gea because of the want for a modern goalie. The exact say happens with Ronaldo and they both get over criticised and under appreciated because of it.

We need to fix the fundamentals first and that's sorting out our midfielders then the defensive structure. Ten Hag will do both and then we'll fix the goalie if it becomes one of the fundamental issue.
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Well -

De Gea influences the defensive line - which effects every other line on the pitch. I don’t see how anyone can say no to that. Positioning is very important to Ten Hag.

Then there is possession- is De Gea good with his passing and distribution? I don’t see how. Loss of possession or possession that puts other team mates under pressure.

He does not ever come out of his line during a corner to come and get hold of the ball. What does this do to the defenders? An increase in Pressure. All trying to make a header when the goalkeepers hands are the best assets defensively in corners and free kicks if it’s at the right area - an area that de gea simply doesn’t have because of him being stuck on the line.

I see plenty of Goalkeepers collecting Freekicks and then making quick throw that leads to a counter attack. Do you see this from De Gea?

De Gea leads to problems in our defense, midfield and attack.
 
haru krentz said:
Him signing that extension could be a mistake for both parties. Our club is notorius for putting unrealistic valution on players and Deano is at risk of losing his most valuable time to learn how to be top goalie.



Dave is 31 years old.
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Exactly no rush, keepees can play top flight until 38-40 years old.
 
AneRu said:
If Newcastle come in with an offer I hope we conclude the sale quickly, no fecking about trying to squeeze every penny off them. Get the 30m or 40m and get moving to doing our own business.
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It's an absolute no brainer to shift our 2nd choice keeper for that.

But it feels like the time Rojo was supposedly on way to Everton for 30m.
 
I think he’ll leave for about 20m

but he should definitely leave now for the sake of his career
 
Sandikan said:
It's an absolute no brainer to shift our 2nd choice keeper for that.

But it feels like the time Rojo was supposedly on way to Everton for 30m.
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Rojo then Romero for what was it then? 25m? Woodward and his cronies have blood on their hands, their incompetence was absolutely staggering.
 
Makes a lot of sense to sell for a fee now; you'd think if he was THAT good he'd have displaced De Gea from training performances alone
 
Bebestation said:
My problem with De Gea is :
  1. He does well when the team is playing rubbish and with no control
  2. That sounds great like he is some Superman who is producing when no one else is - but why exactly is the team playing shit?
  3. Could De Gea actually be part of the reason the team is playing shit?
  4. If we get a goalkeeper that can actually come out of his lines once in a while - then does that allow our defenders to play further up the pitch?
  5. Does that improvement in our defense make our midfielders play better, further up the pitch and with more ease?
  6. What does that allow our forward line to do? Press more whilst literally being face to face with the opposition defensive line? Lack of need to drop back?
  7. For me De Gea is a strength upon a weakness - a weakness that he himself creates
  8. What about his inability to come out to handle and hold a corner or a free kick?
  9. Does this directly effect our counter attacks? If it does not then what about his average passing?
  10. De Gea makes a poor pass and slows down the attack.
  11. Could our attack be better from a more capable gK?
  12. He makes a poor kick that has lead to a poor first touch by the striker. Opposition have now got the ball and planning their own counter attack.
  13. What happens to the defense now that we were just attacking few moments ago?
  14. De Gea is not coming off his line so the rest of the team fall back and accepts the opposition’s attacking pressure like we are Norwich FC.
  15. Everyone is sitting back accepting the pressure and then De Gea makes a wonder save with his reflexes turning to another corner
  16. De gea doesn’t come to collect his corner and stays on the line whilst the opposition scores a header.
  17. De Gea is shouting, blaming the defenders for letting in the header because he has been making all the wonder saves by himself & he has been let down the defense.
  18. He smacks the posts with anger at the crap defense he has in front of him.
  19. De Gea wins the POTY Award.
  20. Rinse & Repeat.
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Spot on.

I have no 'hate' for him but he is objectively a net negative for us as you have analysed and that, I hate (as much as every other player).
 
I rather we sold the whole team bar Ronaldo before DDG. Jesus, this place is like a parallel universe. One day I will wake up and see a topic "Sir Matt is overrated"
 
Gurtej said:
Rome wasn’t built in one day and neither was Liverpool!!

All you guys on about how we should replace DDG with Henderson (who we can get 40m for this window), need to understand we don’t have u limited money…

What will we do with the keeper if we don’t have ball playing centre backs,


If we genuinely believe that GK is one position that takes priority to replace.......I give up.....
On another note, I mentioned in my previous response, selling DeGea is unthinkable and impossible given he is on 375K a week contract....
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keeping Henderson and selling DDG doesn't cost anything; indeed as you point out DDG is getting a huge slab of money. There are plenty of clubs in Europe who could afford DDG. Whether anyone wants him is a different matter - and if they don't, you have to wonder why not
 
mitchmouse said:
keeping Henderson and selling DDG doesn't cost anything; indeed as you point out DDG is getting a huge slab of money. There are plenty of clubs in Europe who could afford DDG. Whether anyone wants him is a different matter - and if they don't, you have to wonder why not
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There are only handful of clubs who can pay 375k a week and all of them have a better keeper…..

I am not saying DDG is the best for us… No and if you can push him out, go for it…. But to assume Dean is the answer is a bit stupid!! Get good money for Henderson, David will go in 2023 as his contract expires if he is not like by ETH ….. Buy a keeper who can play the way ETH wants but in the world class category, not a dean henderson..!!
 
If this happens to be true, then it’s the best bit of news I’ve heard in a long time. We’ll even throw in Maguire as a good will gesture!
 
devilish said:
DDG won 4 Matt Busby player of the year award. He was the first goalkeeper to win it, the first player to win it three times in a row and the first player to win it 4 times. I think he's slightly better then tackles. SAF won a league title with DDG in goal and he had bailed out LVG and Mou in numerous occasions. Ole tried to replace him but he won his place back putting the most hyped bench player in United's history since Fabio Da Silva back to his place, erm, on the bench in the process.

I am not suggesting that DDG is the best keeper one can inspire to be. There's goalkeepers like Buffon for example who made VDS look like Taibi at Juventus. However he's an excellent goalkeeper who can serve us well up until we are in a position to replace him. The problem lie with our tactics. We play a high line with no DM to shield that, a LB that can't defend, a RB that can only defend (AWB) or can only attack (Dalot) and the slowest CB United had since Steve Bruce. That creates a huge gap between the back line and the goalkeeper that ANY goalkeeper would struggle with let alone an old fashioned type of goalkeeper such as DDG.
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The huge gap is actually between defence and midifled the issue is far more the fact that the defence dosent hold its high line because they are constantly worrying about the space behind them and they know that De gea isn't going to deal with any balls through or over them. It just makes the defenders hesitate with holding that line they end up a coupe of yards further back than they should be which creates space for teams to play through us far to easily.

Watch any team that actually plays a high defensive line and the thing you notice is when the ball gets played through or over the defensive line 9 times out of 10 its the GK that deals with it one way or another for us with de gea its more 1 time out of 10. And thats only really the very overhit ones that end up down his throat.

You don't need an entire defence full of pace to play a high line, but you do need an assertive GK willing to play sweeper, something De Gea isn't.
 
Longshanks said:
The huge gap is actually between defence and midifled the issue is far more the fact that the defence dosent hold its high line because they are constantly worrying about the space behind them and they know that De gea isn't going to deal with any balls through or over them. It just makes the defenders hesitate with holding that line they end up a coupe of yards further back than they should be which creates space for teams to play through us far to easily.

Watch any team that actually plays a high defensive line and the thing you notice is when the ball gets played through or over the defensive line 9 times out of 10 its the GK that deals with it one way or another for us with de gea its more 1 time out of 10. And thats only really the very overhit ones that end up down his throat.

You don't need an entire defence full of pace to play a high line, but you do need an assertive GK willing to play sweeper, something De Gea isn't.
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Bebestation said:
My problem with De Gea is :
  1. He does well when the team is playing rubbish and with no control
  2. That sounds great like he is some Superman who is producing when no one else is - but why exactly is the team playing shit?
  3. Could De Gea actually be part of the reason the team is playing shit?
  4. If we get a goalkeeper that can actually come out of his lines once in a while - then does that allow our defenders to play further up the pitch?
  5. Does that improvement in our defense make our midfielders play better, further up the pitch and with more ease?
  6. What does that allow our forward line to do? Press more whilst literally being face to face with the opposition defensive line? Lack of need to drop back?
  7. For me De Gea is a strength upon a weakness - a weakness that he himself creates
  8. What about his inability to come out to handle and hold a corner or a free kick?
  9. Does this directly effect our counter attacks? If it does not then what about his average passing?
  10. De Gea makes a poor pass and slows down the attack.
  11. Could our attack be better from a more capable gK?
  12. He makes a poor kick that has lead to a poor first touch by the striker. Opposition have now got the ball and planning their own counter attack.
  13. What happens to the defense now that we were just attacking few moments ago?
  14. De Gea is not coming off his line so the rest of the team fall back and accepts the opposition’s attacking pressure like we are Norwich FC.
  15. Everyone is sitting back accepting the pressure and then De Gea makes a wonder save with his reflexes turning to another corner
  16. De gea doesn’t come to collect his corner and stays on the line whilst the opposition scores a header.
  17. De Gea is shouting, blaming the defenders for letting in the header because he has been making all the wonder saves by himself & he has been let down the defense.
  18. He smacks the posts with anger at the crap defense he has in front of him.
  19. De Gea wins the POTY Award.
  20. Rinse & Repeat.
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I am not saying DDG isn't part of the problem. What I am saying is that unlike our entire defence and CM, DDG has great talent and he was first. Surely any manager with a bit of brains would appreciate what a 4 time Matt Busby player of the year award brings to the table and build a defence and a midfield to cover around his weakness. I mean Ole spent around 150m in that defence while there's still remains of Mou's team (around 120m in Fred, Bailly and Lindelof) and LVG's team as well. We had ample chances to achieve that.

Regarding replacing DDG, we need to be careful what we wish for. We had many false dawns in replacing Schmeichel (including fans favourite Foster who was as hyped as Hendo is) and Ole did try to replace DDG only to going back to him. With all his flaws, DDG is a top top keeper. No one wins 4 Matt Busby player of the year award otherwise
 
Let's face it 3 years from now not one of these players will be in our first 11. It's that bad. We have to bin the lot and re-start. Obviously that can only be done over 3 years or so. Let the cull start.
 
devilish said:
I am not saying DDG isn't part of the problem. What I am saying is that unlike our entire defence and CM, DDG has great talent and he was first. Surely any manager with a bit of brains would appreciate what a 4 time Matt Busby player of the year award brings to the table and build a defence and a midfield to cover around his weakness. I mean Ole spent around 150m in that defence while there's still remains of Mou's team (around 120m in Fred, Bailly and Lindelof) and LVG's team as well. We had ample chances to achieve that.

Regarding replacing DDG, we need to be careful what we wish for. We had many false dawns in replacing Schmeichel (including fans favourite Foster who was as hyped as Hendo is) and Ole did try to replace DDG only to going back to him. With all his flaws, DDG is a top top keeper. No one wins 4 Matt Busby player of the year award otherwise
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Any manager with a bit of brains hoping to play high press dominating football would drop de gea, there is no way you can build any sort of high line defence with him behind it.

Out of all of our players de gea is by far the least suited to high press tika taka football which is what we are all expecting from ETH. He literally has no redeeming qualities for it and all his many flaws are big blocks for it.

De gea has been here 10 years and in all of those ten years we have never looked like a top quality defensive unit, under numerous different managers behind numerous defensive and midifled units they all eventually turn to shit infront of de gea and alot of the time that wasn't playing with a high line/high press system that was with mostly low block counter attack systems.

His 4 player of the year awards, they were all in pretty poor seasons for us weren't they? He thrives in chaos and does sweet feck all to stop the chaos from happening.

You say de gea is a top GK, I think he had the potential to be but the areas of his game that he has always been fairly weak at have regressed to a point where he doesn't even bother anymore and actively avoids anything that he isnt very good at to detriment of the team.
 
Whether DeGea is good enough in the long run is a question, but whether Dean Henderson ever will be is quite another. He's mid 20s and has made very minimal impact in his career. I think there's a solid PL keeper in there, but not necessarily for us. If we can get good money it's an easy decision to help our rebuild.
 
Henderson has been managed abysmally by the club.

Handled carefully through rigours of the English football pyramid and succeeded at every juncture; acclimatised brilliantly to the Premier League at Sheffield entering international football full of confidence; sat on the bench for two years losing all momentum. Well done, United. Well done.
 
I think Henderson has been let down by the club but I don't care.

I really don't rate Henderson. He gives me massive Jordan Pickford vibes and he didn't impress during his run in the side last season.

It wouldn't at all surprise me if 'Keeper position becomes an issue this time next year. DDG isn't the sort of goalkeeper that Ten Hag likes using and DDG always goes downhill when United improve and he doesn't have as much to do.
 
TOPREDIAMNOT said:
Let's face it 3 years from now not one of these players will be in our first 11. It's that bad. We have to bin the lot and re-start. Obviously that can only be done over 3 years or so. Let the cull start.
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Thats what we should be doing but I can guarantee a large proportion of these players will still be here. We are most at need of buying players of any big club in Europe, yet others around us have already reacted to decent players available on free transfers. I’d happily get rid of everyone and start again. No old faces, including Henderson and De Gea. Let’s not forget De Gea has been in goal for the entirety of our disaster era in the Premier League.
 
I think 20m would be a good deal. We need to sell at reasonable prices to help us invest quickly, same way with our other deadwood. Raise 40-50m in sales and try to buy 4-5 players.
 
Newcastle will need to be paying a premium for been a oil club now, that's just how it works.

Sure they'll be plently of other takers if they're only prepared to pay £15 million.
 
Reddevildans said:
Tbf they were regulars for thier teams. Henderson hasn't had a kick. Anything north of 20m would be acceptable.
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He’s a promising young English player, that combination alone is worth 30m whatever club they play for. We should be asking for 30 minimum, any less and he stays.
 
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