Could just imagine Juan running into the middle of any argument shouting 'Hugs everybody. Hugs'.
De Gea post-season interview: "Ones who want to stay, stay at the club. Ones that don't want to stay go out. You don't have to stay here."
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Erm yeah, it is your responsibility to work on your weaknesses as a footballer, there is nothing magic about it, it's just hard work. And that is what Hoek had him doing, hence his stats on dealing with crosses has dropped year on year since Hoek left from circa 7% (so just below average) to 3% (worst in the league). Hoek gave an interview a couple of years ago about the importance of the relationship between the goalkeeper and the team, and the resistance he faced from De Gea as it was different to what he'd done previously. And then despite the improvements it brought to his game, De Gea then wanted the club to bring in his old Atletico coach and immediately returned to mostly individual goalkeeper training regimes and regressing in the areas he had been improving. It's not a performance issue I'm griping here, you can't call your team-mates out for being unprofessional when you're that adverse to improving your game and have given an interview saying how happy you are with your season when you've just conceded 57 league goals.
Well done, now @Mr Pigeon will stop performing completely
Dave isn’t the problem. Sure, he’s not a “modern” style goalkeeper, but you have to feel for him standing between the sticks and watching the horror show in front of him week in week out.
So many people slagging of DDG, seem to forget post Fergie David has been consistently good, in some seasons arguably world class. He had a blip last season and even towards the start of this one, yet he's pulled it back.
Fax machine or not, he stuck with us and he's been putting in good performances regularly. He might not have fancy footwork, but he did everything he could to keep the goals out.
Fax machine or not, he stuck with us and he's been putting in good performances regularly. He might not have fancy footwork, but he did everything he could to keep the goals out.
People are not differentiating between his weaknesses as a goalkeeper as you say in the modern game and his professionalism and personality as a person. Think this is why him and Juan are so upset by what is happening in front of them. They are trying to do their job to the best of the abilities, it might not be the best, but nobody can say they don't work. Instead they are listening to others stabbing each other in the back, not listening to instructions, disrespecting managers and coaches. They have had enough and felt they needed to bring things out into the open. People saying Luckhurst is making things up. These two have basically confirmed most of what he is saying.
Being a modern keeper isn’t just a stylistic preference. It actually impacts our defence. Look at the immediate impact Allison has had on Liverpool and even Ederson at City who’s an inferior example. They perform as an additional player in buildup and their launches are offensive weapons. Don’t know how many times De Gea gave the ball back to the opposition or put it out of play from kick outs. More importantly though, his defenders know they can’t trust him to come off his line which stops them playing a high line effectively. He is appalling at coming for crosses and is very weak in contact.
It works both ways.
If you put a mute goalkeeper who sticks to his line, that the defenders can't trust to command his area behind them and any defence and it will immediately become a confused mess.
There has to be a level of trust and understanding between the keeper and the centre halves. An understanding that means they can control the defence together and know who is going to deal with certain situations.
The biggest problem with this Utd defence is that they just don't play as a unit. Like it or not, DDG is a big part of that problem, because apparently he thinks he's just there to make saves.
I agree with your points but it wouldn’t make a huge difference in the grand scheme of things. Allison would look like a calamity in this team imo.
Exactly. It's hilarious you see posts like "he isn't professional, if he is, why isn't he a modern keeper".
It's as good (or worse) as saying any player who isn't complete isn't a professioanl.
Maybe players like Kante are not professionals either, as he can't play long passes like Scholes or can't shoot with his weaker foot like Sneijder/Perisic.
If he had a better defense or a midfield I would be inclined to have a go at him as well (and we all know his limitations in the 5 yard crosses) but he is spot on and is surley here next season and hopefully we can improve every single position with probably the exception of Shaw. If then he doesn't improved then I can agree with some of the critics regarding his game
It's like some fans think that if they blindly support these losers they might finally get to be friends with them some day
I disagree with this because the reactive elements of his game are by far his biggest strengths. He can be an amazing shot stopper and this is the attribute that shines when you are a goalkeeper with a bad defence. Don’t think anyone is saying he’s bad at that and this year at least he’s not getting shredded for letting in goals from shots he should be saving.
But he is still ridiculously bad at sweeping Up danger before it happens. How many times have we seen him routed to his line when other keepers would be running out to clear danger or letting easily attainable crosses just float across his zone. These aren’t really ‘skills’ the way accurate long passing is so it’s bizarre he isn’t being told to be more aggressive out that he’s ignoring it if he is. We’ve seen Maguire and other defenders roaring at him for not coming out this season.
Not sure if that's true. "Big part of the problem" - That's just your personal interpretation.
He's won the league with other defenders in front of him, so could be he's also actually at an okay level in communications and the others are not. But yeah, surely we're missing communication and leadership overall.
Glad to see him say this at the right time - Had he said it a game earlier, he'd get called names. It puts pressure on the leeches of the club, here for a paycheck but not doing anything for the team. Lots of immature idiots in our team it seems.
Fair play Dave they need calling out, too many charlatans and tossers in the squad.
Cannot wait to see the back of the likes of Pogba, Henderson, Cavani, Jesse and hopefully a few others.
Cannot wait to see the back of the likes of Pogba, Henderson, Cavani, Jesse and hopefully a few others.
maguire had a clique but it moved faster than a snail, ran in behind him and he got left behind
Bailly, its pretty clear he wants to leave, Martial same boat, Rashford has had a few media pieces about how he was going to replace Mbappe at PSG!! Jones wants away but I can understand that at his age that he needs gametime, and there are hints that Henderson wants a move.
That's 5 off the top of my head, then there is another list of players who may or may not be up to scratch.
Maguire, Dalot, AWB, McTom, Telles, Lindelof, I don't think those guys are pushing for a move, the debate is more about whether they are good enough and the jury is definitely still out on each of them and if someone came in with a reasonable offer I would be happy enough to see any of them go for the right price.
The thing is De Gea played with Vidic and Ferdinand and none of them complained about DDG not coming out out of his line. Why? because they're top defenders and they know when and when not to pass around at the back.
Also, if there's mistrust between them then the person who should be organizing it is Maguire. He's the captain, he's the most important out of all defenders. De Gea needs to command his area during freekicks and corners, but really he shouldn't have to do that in general plays when we have the ball. At that time it's the defender's. The main problem is we have defenders that are neither calm nor composed actively trying to play the ball around at the back (which can also be attributed to the system, maybe they are instructed specifically to do it?) and when they realize they've made a mistake, such as opponents pressing them and they have no space to run to, they just give it to DDG. So of course I can understand DDG's frustration. After all, if the opponent manages to snatch the ball it'll be him that gets shit on when the opponent scores the goal even though it's most likely a collective, systematical mistake. Imagine the players in front of you constantly scrambling and you never know what they're gonna do, what do you do? you come out, it can lead into a mistake, you don't come out and it can lead into a mistake too. I don't agree that he's a big problem. We have bigger problems. Replace him with someone like Ederson and the defenders + midfielders will still find a way to make stupid mistakes that put the GK in a disadvantageous position. Hell, I can imagine Ederson coming out of his line only for Maguire or Fred to score an own goal. We just don't have an organization nor calmness at the back - the reasons why we brought in Maguire and so far it's been a failure. Meanwhile if we had a decent back four that don't try to outsmart themselves with playing from the back, with DDG still in goal, the difference is gonna be night and day.
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Cavani, without a doubt.
Both Pogba and Cavani have pulled sickies to go on holiday this season. Rangnick even called it out in a press conference soon after Pogba did it in April.
Lingard, I think we all know about. He wanted to leave last summer and again in January, but was blocked by the board.
Bailly hasn't been happy.
Matic has opted out of an optional contract extension. I'm not saying he's caused any problems or been unprofessional. But his semi-retirement does add to the 'checked out' atmosphere.
The likes of Jones, Mata, Henderson, AWB and Rashford probably all want to stay despite everything they've been going through. I doubt any of them are who DDG is referring to. But the first three are in the same boat as Matic of being 'checked out'.
Woodward's squad contract management has left the squad bloated and full of players on a fat wage for doing next to nothing. Both Ole and Jose wanted culls but were stopped from doing so.
We've all been in offices where the guy next to us is getting paid to do nothing, or the lady in the opposite booth seems unsackable despite being late all the time and being bad at her job. It's the kind of attitude bleeds through into everyone else, and before long you're half-arsing it as well. I mean, if Rob in accounting is cutting corners to get off on an early lunch, maybe I should too.
I personally like a lot of the players I've mentioned above. But even if none of them is toxic on his own, it all adds up. Which is why I don't necessarily subscribe to idea of there being specifically 'bad eggs'. I think it's a cumulative effect from lots of players being a little bit unhappy and pulling in slightly different direction. That's one of the hazards of having too many people in one dressing room.
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From De Gea interview and Rangnick 10 incomings message a few days ago it's clear how bad the situation in the dressing room currently. We need a new captain and strong leaders in the squad.
You can’t use Rio and Vidic as a reference point anymore, football has changed too much. Every team presses now. Those guys were premier league all timers but they weren’t being pressed in every game and so the goalkeeper and defenders back then have different requirements.
A functional, or should I say exceptional midfielders in Carrick & Scholes definitely help with that. But now we have non existent midfielders that instead help the opponents press by constantly making a bad pass.
Also if every team presses, I wonder how many top teams in the world actually play with ball playing GK + ball playing CB combination in order to counter that? if the answer is less than 20% then it's not even a 'meta'. It's just something you see other teams (that are doing well) do and you want it. Point is we've been shite at it after spending so much for ball playing CBs (Maguire, Lindelof). And if we do continue that way then god help ETH to slap some sense into the back four because obviously it's only making things worse. Most of the chances I saw in games this season was caused by a reckless back pass from midfielder to defender, midfielder to midfielder, defender to defender or defender to GK.
I think it would make an enormous difference. Our defenders need to take care of every ball that is coming in our own half, doesn't matter how close to the keeper, purely because De Gea is too scared to claim them. Yesterday there was one occasion when the ball was actually in his own box and he backed off, forcing Maguire to spring and deal with it.
And do you know why we are always so shaky at crosses? Because we play with one less player in those occasions. Not only that, it's the one player that has the biggest power in normal conditions. Look at Alisson, he just claims the high balls and that's that. De Gea, instead, stands on his line, waiting to showcase his reflexes,pumping his stats for being a great shot stopper when there shouldn't have been a shot to begin with.
I've hoped we sell/not renew him for ages. And I'm 100% sure we will never transition to truly building from the back and playing a high line with him in goal.
Our scouting- and recruitmentsystem has been a joke. Seems like things are changing now; Woodward and a couple of other key recruiters/scouts are goneWeren't we supposed to bring in players with "good" characters and value under Ole? So much for the famed cultural reset
Agree. Hard to be too harsh this year when literally everyone was terrible and he made point-saving saves in a few games but in the big picture, he's a world away from the Ajax keeper Onana and he will limit our ambitions to play that kind of football if that's what ten Hag wants.
Nice.
Happened with Jose. Happened with Rangnick.
Ole started his time with us calling out players, which fans ate up. And then reneged on it for the first full season.
Very much a double standard thats kind of nonsensical. I understand distrusting Jose...but De Gea!? Weird bunch.
Agree 100%. At least a lot of players that are part of the problem will go now.
Unfortunately the stubborn ones who wanted to leave will now be like, “try and tell me what to do? I’ll show you… I’m staying.”
New head coach new fresh start. Pre season will show who is most hunger.
Players low confidence and poor performances were effect and caused by a poor United collective. And the Ralf and his team had the most key decisions that lead to United poor collective. Or United collective collapsed.
New head coach. He might get the United collective and ship more steady.
With 2-3 really good Ajax players and others really good players in the summer.
Different reasons/factors and ingredients = difference result = the truth = wider perspective
As a coach. I believe Ten Hag is a much better head coach both Ole and Ralf. And like i said with new stronger ingredients, players and reason. I dont expect same result as Ralf. In the truth i trust. Not specific ego and names.
Many of them want to leave if Ralf stay. During his time here. They havent give the same statement with.... a new fresh head coach.
Players low confidence and poor performances were effect and caused by a poor United collective. And the Ralf and his team had the most key decisions that lead to United poor collective. Or United collective collapsed.
New head coach. He might get the United collective and ship more steady.
With 2-3 really good Ajax players and others really good players in the summer.
Different reasons/factors and ingredients = difference result = the truth = wider perspective
As a coach. I believe Ten Hag is a much better head coach both Ole and Ralf. And like i said with new stronger ingredients, players and reason. I dont expect same result as Ralf. In the truth i trust. Not specific ego and names.
Many of them want to leave if Ralf stay. During his time here. They havent give the same statement with.... a new fresh head coach.
It's not about being smart or trying this or that. It's about having a basic undrstanding that the defence and keeper act as a unit. Those players have to know who is in charge of different situations, who's responsible for dealing with it. Yet, you have a keeper who won't even claim a high ball that's right in the 6 yard box. But thinks that he himself has had a great season, and talks about it being a team game and chooses to ignore his own weaknesses and that he's fundamentally a massive part of a malfunctioning unit that has conceded 57 goals in a season.
Not good enough? With De Gea or Ronaldo, we would have been in a much deeper s*hole as we're now ...
Do you have any insight into what the dressing room dynamics are now or when Keane was captain?
Let's face it you've got no clue what DDG does or doesn't do in the dressing room, also funny how you criticize De Gea for publicly calling out players while Keane was banished from the club for doing the same. People in here would be giving him shit for giving generic unauthentic answers so really anyone criticizing the man for being honest and calling out these con men can piss off respectfully.
You say this with such conviction. If only we had a season we could easily compare the performance of a United team with Ronaldo and a United without. Like last year for example where we came second in the league and the club was an infinitely happier place.
I don't know what detailed actions De Gea have taken to address the issues, but I can see the results: an unsettled and un-motivated dressing room which lack of professionalism.
As you mentioned, Keane spoke out in public and at that moment he considered himself above the club and thought that he were entitled to do this, then he was swept out of the door. If we held the same standard, why De Gea can be treated differently ? Before that, no doubt Keane was the role model of leader and captain to set straight the dressing room and he has been well respected.
My point is, calling out in public benefits no one. You trying to be honest , you can try it in dressing room to correct the wrong .