[Oranges038]

He also anticipated a far post header which left him rooted. Good point on the velocity of the cross.

A step to his right he had the potential to save it with his foot, something he is brilliant at doing.

Still, a textbook header from that position should be going in more often than not.

It should and you'd argue that if the player doesn't score it's a bad miss.

But, it's one of them when you watch it back you think he could do better. He made up the ground and then stopped to set himself. You keep going and gamble on the near post header and if the player manages to get it back across you then there's feck all you can do.

 

[calodo2003]

It should and you'd argue that if the player doesn't score it's a bad miss.

But, it's one of them when you watch it back you think he could do better. He made up the ground and then stopped to set himself. You keep going and gamble on the near post header and if the player manages to get it back across you then there's feck all you can do.

Perfectly put.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think you arent factoring a fecking fridge in front of him panic passing to him under no pressure.

Good passes, bad passes, pressure, no pressure. You can guarantee he’ll shank the ball to the opposition regardless. It’s actually getting to the point where it’s almost comical. If it wasn’t so depressing.

My head almost exploded when he actually passed a ball through the press to McT’s feet in the first half. You wait a long fecking time for such a rarity.

 

[UnitedFan93]

De Gea was in the PFA team of the year when we won the league. Talking. Shit.

We conceded 43 goals that season, more than the other top 4 teams; even Everton conceded fewer goals. De Gea was in the team of the year simply because he was the keeper of the team that had won the league. RVP won us that league, and saved us on many occasions. It's not the first time a player has been in the team of the year simply because they were part of the team that's won the league.

Phil Jones also has a league medal, doesn't mean he's any good.

 

[EtH]

Good passes, bad passes, pressure, no pressure. You can guarantee he’ll shank the ball to the opposition regardless. It’s actually getting to the point where it’s almost comical. If it wasn’t so depressing.

My head almost exploded when he actually passed a ball through the press to McT’s feet in the first half. You wait a long fecking time for such a rarity.

His lack of ability on the ball and general timidity (putting that nicely) have been hindering us for a very long time.

 

[Adam-Utd]

thought he should have done much better with that header. near post and didn’t even move for it

 

[Pogue Mahone]

His lack of ability on the ball and general timidity (putting that nicely) have been hindering us for a very long time.

To me, that’s a real elephant in the room. We’ve had a bunch of different defenders in front of him over the years. Including several who have looked very good at times for United, or at other clubs. Yet we have always looked weak defensively, with him in goal. Even in seasons when he’s playing very well in terms of shot-stopping and (very occasionally) dealing with crosses.

He just has no air of authority whatsoever. The only aura he exudes is indecision and panic. You never hear him shout or organise, his sweeping ability is close to nonexistent and he’s got more and more incompetent with the ball at his feet. He must be a nightmare for defenders to play in front of. I refuse to believe this hasn’t been a MASSIVE factor in our decade of defensive insecurity. A period that goes back to, surprise surprise, the last time we had a different goalkeeper.

In the three seasons before De Gea joined we conceded less than 30 goals each season. We haven’t done that once with him in the team. More likely to conceded 40+ than <30. This can’t be a coincidence.

Spain’s defence went to absolute shite while he he was playing for them too. Then improved when they got rid. Again, not a coincidence.

 

[clarkydaz]

thought he should have done much better with that header. near post and didn’t even move for it

thats the thing. Regardless if would have made the save, didnt even bother

 

[The_Midfielder]

thats the thing. Regardless if would have made the save, didnt even bother

That's the most difficult goal to save.. header hit down on the ground .. perfectly Executed .. no goalkeeper is saving that

 

[EtH]

To me, that’s a real elephant in the room. We’ve had a bunch of different defenders in front of him over the years. Including several who have looked very good at times for United, or at other clubs. Yet we have always looked weak defensively, with him in goal. Even in seasons when he’s playing very well in terms of shot-stopping and (very occasionally) dealing with crosses.

He just has no air of authority whatsoever. The only aura he exudes is indecision and panic. You never hear him shout or organise, his sweeping ability is close to nonexistent and he’s got more and more incompetent with the ball at his feet. He must be a nightmare for defenders to play in front of. I refuse to believe this hasn’t been a MASSIVE factor in our decade of defensive insecurity. A period that goes back to, surprise surprise, the last time we had a different goalkeeper.

In the three seasons before De Gea joined we conceded less than 30 goals each season. We haven’t done that once with him in the team. More likely to conceded 40+ than <30. This can’t be a coincidence.

Absolutely. How can anyone expect a defense to be settled in front of a keeper who doesn’t even try to organize or command his area ?

This doesn’t excuse Maguire or any of the other shit defenders we’ve had, mind. But I am certain that Evans and Smalling would’ve shown more consistently with a more modern sweeper keeper behind them. And I imagine we could’ve gotten more out of Rio and Vidic in the end as well.

 

[UnitedFan93]

To me, that’s a real elephant in the room. We’ve had a bunch of different defenders in front of him over the years. Including several who have looked very good at times for United, or at other clubs. Yet we have always looked weak defensively, with him in goal. Even in seasons when he’s playing very well in terms of shot-stopping and (very occasionally) dealing with crosses. He just has no air of authority whatsoever. The only aura he exudes is indecision and panic. You never hear him shout or organise, his sweeping ability is close to nonexistent and he’s got more and more incompetent with the ball at his feet. He must be a nightmare for defenders to play in front of. I refuse to believe this hasn’t been a MASSIVE factor in our near decade of defensive insecurity. A period that goes back to, surprise surprise, the last time we had a different goalkeeper.

In the three seasons before De Gea joined we conceded less than 30 goals each season. We haven’t done that once with him in the team. More likely to conceded 40+ than <30. This can’t be a coincidence.

Agree with all that

De Gea isn't world class and never has been. He has conned the club and the fans for years.

Had to laugh at the end when he went up for the last minute corner. This is a guy who's too scared to challenge for 50/50 balls with his hands. He's got no chance scoring from a corner with his head! His time is up like a lot of the players. An absolute bottler on the big occasions. The Spanish National Team saw it years ago, why the feck can't the club?

 

[CloneMC16]

He's right though. De Gea has bottled every big moment in a United shirt. Even when we won the league De Gea was shit. I remember that 2012/13 season, United had to score 4 because we had conceded 3 in a lot of games.

Yeah, people saying De Gea has won a title (so he's practically free of criticism) has always been funny to me. De Gea was not that good in 12/13. He shared the position with Lindegaard. He was making plenty of mistakes at that point. Sir Alex would put Lindegaard in to give him a break after an error. He started to really perform in 13/14.

He pissed me off kicking the ball straight to Atletico in dangerous situations. He does this at least once almost every game. This is a massive problem. I don't know if I blame him for the goal. It looks bad getting beaten at your near post, but I still feel like a save there would have been pretty unbelievable. He was expecting the header to go towards the far post. He slightly positions to his left, but realises immediately that it's going in at the near post.

He did make a good save from de Paul.

 

[Zoo]

I tend to think that he couldn’t have done much for the goal but then I also think someone like Alisson is consistently proactive and might have got there whereas De Gea is reactive and it’s not very fun watching him anymore.

 

[Frank Grimes]

His kicking is woeful. Puts a bad team on the back foot, not a good combination.

 

[Bebestation]

A decade of a curse

 

[GifLord]

But sure keep blaming DDG

 

[Bebestation]

Wan Bissaka can only slide tackle - Sell him!!!!

De gea can only save on the line - OMG this guy is amazing and world class.

Pure contradiction.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Last play of the game was a corner kick for us that Oblak took it upon himself to go collect it outside the edge of the 6 yard box. You can guarantee that wouldn't happen if it was at the other end of the pitch

 

[Gazza]

But sure keep blaming DDG

Maybe try addressing some of the points made in the thread instead of stats+emojis?

 

[Gazza]

Wan Bissaka can only slide tackle - Sell him!!!!

De gea can only save on the line - OMG this guy is amazing and world class.

Pure contradiction.

Yes, and of course it is impossible that it's not actually the same people making those points.

 

[LiquidSnake]

I'm absolutely baffled at how shit De Gea is with feet given how top class keepers can be at least decent in this aspect... Like if I'm striker and I'm pressing I would pressure him into playing on his wrong foot like I genuinely believe he wouldnt even be able to just hoof it up.

As for his goal, the header was perfectly done but he didnt even react. Actually you can see him stopping his run when he feels Lodi is going for the header.

The thing for me is that, I would believe the keeper should absolutely rush his first post closing the angle no matter what. That would make De Gea positionning himself having his body on the trajectory hence a better attempt at saving the goal OR Lodi would have to beat him going for the second post which would be harder and possibly contested by Dalot.

On the goal for me, he was in a no man land and absolutely not helped himself.

 

[JB7]

Yet another game at Old Trafford where the difference a dominant goalkeeper makes to their team and how they can defend has been evident. I don't know how many more games like this we have to see before the decision makers at the club see it, it has to be obvious to a blind man on a running horse at this point how detrimental De Gea is to us both in and out of possession.

 

[sullydnl]

In terms of yesterday's game specifically, his ability with the ball was the issue rather than any of his other faults.

In these higher level games when the pressure is on the need for the goalkeeper to be good enough on the ball to give the team that extra man in possession really sticks out.

 

[Raw]

The penny has got to have dropped by now surely. We are not going anywhere near the top with De Gea in goal, unless we had a ridiculous attack that can make up for our defensive frailties.

He's only going to get worse as he gets older. He won't be able to rely on those quick reaction saves any longer.

Unfortunately we have a lot of pressing issues in the squad at the moment so I doubt he's getting moved on any time soon. The stupidest thing would be to offer him a new contract though, which I highly expect will happen after another season of him pulling off ridiculous saves because he can't organise the defence to stop these sorts of chances.

 

[Idxomer]

I bet no one at the club thinks there's any need to get rid of him.

 

[sullydnl]

The penny has got to have dropped by now surely. We are not going anywhere near the top with De Gea in goal, unless we had a ridiculous attack that can make up for our defensive frailties.

He's only going to get worse as he gets older. He won't be able to rely on those quick reaction saves any longer.

Unfortunately we have a lot of pressing issues in the squad at the moment so I doubt he's getting moved on any time soon. The stupidest thing would be to offer him a new contract though, which I highly expect will happen after another season of him pulling off ridiculous saves because he can't organise the defence to stop these sorts of chances.

This would be my main worry. Given we've given contracts to others to "protect their value" it wouldn't surprise me at all if we tie ourselves to De Gea for longer again.

If we don't give him a new contract though then for all his faults I do understand prioritising other areas of the team. If it were up to me we'd just let him see out his current contract, which would take him to 2023 or 2024 if we trigger the year extension. That would give us a year or two to strengthen those other positions and identify a long term replacement for him. It would also give him a fairly graceful exit. But it won't happen.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

In terms of yesterday's game specifically, his ability with the ball was the issue rather than any of his other faults.

In these higher level games when the pressure is on the need for the goalkeeper to be good enough on the ball to give the team that extra man in possession really sticks out.

Yup. And it screws us even when he doesn’t touch the ball. That split second hesitation from defenders who don’t trust him to receive/execute a pass is a disaster. Playing football at this level even a moment’s indecision can cost a team. If it’s happening multiple times each match we’re never going to have a functional defensive unit.

 

[tenpoless]

He is too old to change into a ball playing keeper. Refresh the club. Replace everyone that has to be replaced.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Here's a timeline of our our PL goals conceded:
BD (Before Dave)
2006/07 27
2007/08 22
2008/09 24
2009/10 28
2010/11 37
AD (After Dave)
2011/12 33
2012/13 43
2013/14 43
2014/15 37
2015/16 35
2016/17 29
2017/18 28
2018/19 54
2019/20 36
2020/21 44

You can see that the time was right to replace Van Der Sar but our defence has been an unmitigated shit show throughout all but two of the 10 seasons with De Gea in goal. And the only two seasons we conceded <30 goals were when Mourinho went full park the bus from 2016 to 2018. A radically different approach to how we used to play with VdS in goal.

Now bear in mind that Rio didn't turn 35 until 2016 and Vidic was only 33 in his final season at United in 2013/14. Also bear in mind that many of the centre backs who have struggled in front of DDG have looked decent at other clubs, either before or after playing for United. Look at how nervous and uncertain Varane has looked in his last two starts, compared to the rolls royce he was at Madrid. Or how about United central defenders looking class for their international teams, every international break. It happens all the time. Conversely, look how rubbish top La Liga defenders looked when they played in front of DDG for Spain. To me this all points towards the goalkeeper position never being sorted after Van Der Sar needed to be moved on. Even in seasons where De Gea was making loads of fantastic saves he was a big factor in a deeply dysfunctional defence, which is why he needed to make all of those saves. I'm like a broken record here but I'm absolutely convinced that upgrading DDG would be the biggest bang for our buck when it comes to fixing our defence.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

He is too old to change into a ball playing keeper. Refresh the club. Replace everyone that has to be replaced.

We got to start doing it though. We hand out extensions instead.

 

[The Oracle]

Yet another game at Old Trafford where the difference a dominant goalkeeper makes to their team and how they can defend has been evident. I don't know how many more games like this we have to see before the decision makers at the club see it, it has to be obvious to a blind man on a running horse at this point how detrimental De Gea is to us both in and out of possession.

This.

With regards the goal last night, De Gea gambled that the ball was going to be headed towards the back post... it ended up being headed in at the near-post.
He took a gamble and it didn't pay off. Although I was disappointed with the goal, I can't pin the blame on De Gea because it was a really good header to be fair.

In terms of which team had the better goalkeeper last night, it was clear to see that one keeper commanded his box, had good ball distribution, and had a calming presence on his defence. The other keeper was David De Gea.

 

[led_scholes]

We have two many areas to replace, that we should not look to replace De Gea now. But next year should be his last.

He has been here for 11 years and since the beginning he had two issues; crossing and distribution. And he is still bad at both. At crossing he has improved just a little to be fair after 11 years (wow), but his worst issue is distribution. Every game he gives the ball to the opposition or we just lose the ball. How many times we are recycling the ball, only to end up at De Gea who just throws it away?

 

[Sylar]

Tbh pep or Klopp would have replaced him by now.
A lot has been talked about how many shots he's faced, I'd like to see the breakdown on how many come from him not coming off his line to sweep / claim the ball / intercept

And many come from ones like yesterday where he gives the ball away

 

[Raw]

Tbh pep or Klopp would have replaced him by now.
A lot has been talked about how many shots he's faced, I'd like to see the breakdown on how many come from him not coming off his line to sweep / claim the ball / intercept

And many come from ones like yesterday where he gives the ball away

Reminds me of when Pep phased Joe Hart out. He's a GK who had been instrumental in getting City their first league title, and also won the joint most golden gloves in the PL. It was met with a lot of confusion and vitriol against Pep by their fans but it turns out he was completely right.

We need to do the same with De Gea. He's been a hero for us but we have to look at the bigger picture.

 

[Beachryan]

Must have been very confused when Oblak came and claimed the corner he was up for. Presumably he's unaware that's allowed.

Love Dave, he's been an excellent player for us and is possibly the best shot stopper in history, but he's never developped the other parts of his game, and at his age he's not going to start. I blame our management to some extent, but it's also on him.

Quasi-related, in the pick with Tom Brady he looks tiny, always thought he was a lot taller than that.

 

[sullydnl]

Here's a timeline of our our PL goals conceded:
BD (Before Dave)
2006/07 27
2007/08 22
2008/09 24
2009/10 28
2010/11 37
AD (After Dave)
2011/12 33
2012/13 43
2013/14 43
2014/15 37
2015/16 35
2016/17 29
2017/18 28
2018/19 54
2019/20 36
2020/21 44

You can see that the time was right to replace Van Der Sar but our defence has been an unmitigated shit show throughout all but two of the 10 seasons with De Gea in goal. And the only two seasons we conceded <30 goals were when Mourinho went full park the bus from 2016 to 2018. A radically different approach to how we used to play with VdS in goal.

Now bear in mind that Rio didn't turn 35 until 2016 and Vidic was only 33 in his final season at United in 2013/14. Also bear in mind that many of the centre backs who have struggled in front of DDG have looked decent at other clubs, either before or after playing for United. Look at how nervous and uncertain Varane has looked in his last two starts, compared to the rolls royce he was at Madrid. Or how about United central defenders looking class for their international teams, every international break. It happens all the time. Conversely, look how rubbish top La Liga defenders looked when they played in front of DDG for Spain. To me this all points towards the goalkeeper position never being sorted after Van Der Sar needed to be moved on. Even in seasons where De Gea was making loads of fantastic saves he was a big factor in a deeply dysfunctional defence, which is why he needed to make all of those saves. I'm like a broken record here but I'm absolutely convinced that upgrading DDG would be the biggest bang for our buck when it comes to fixing our defence.

Think that's a very spinny look at those particular stats.

If we're spinning in the other direction we could point out that our defence had already been getting worse in each of the three seasons before De Gea ever arrived. Starting from when Queiroz (noted for the impact he had on us defensively) left the club and covering a period in which the team was seen to be in decline generally and our defence (not just Van Der Sar) was aging.

Then De Gea arrived and oversaw a defense that conceded fewer goals than the one he inherited in six of the subsequent ten seasons. This despite the obvious massive downgrades on SAF, Vidic, Ferdinand and Evra he was working with throughout that period. A period in which he was then seen as our repeated player of the year, as opposed to the now revsionist take that he was the one actually at fault.

We could also point out that by opting to start in 06/07 you're beginning with an extreme outlier period in which we were unsusually strong defensively. Looking back on the years before then our goals conceded were 34, 26, 35, 34, 45, 31, 45, 37, 26, 44, 35, 28, 38, 31, 33. So not a single example of us having back to back seasons of conceding fewer than 30 goals, let alone the four in a row you're framing De Gea against. In fact we had as many sub-30 goal seasons in the ten years before your start date as the ten years with De Gea. If we're saying De Gea is the cause of us conceding more goals than we did in that 06-10 period, are we also saying Schmeichel was the cause of us conceding more goals than that across his time here too?

Because it would probably make more sense to conclude league goals conceded isn't a particularly good way of specifically assessing goalkeeper impact.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Think that's a very spinny look at those particular stats.

If we're spinning in the other direction we could point out that our defence had already been getting worse in each of the three seasons before De Gea ever arrived. Starting from when Queiroz (noted for the impact he had on us defensively) left the club and covering a period in which the team was seen to be in decline generally and our defence (not just Van Der Sar) was aging.

Then De Gea arrived and oversaw a defense that conceded fewer goals than the one he inherited in six of the subsequent ten seasons. This despite the obvious massive downgrades on SAF, Vidic, Ferdinand and Evra he was working with throughout that period. A period in which he was then seen as our repeated player of the year, as opposed to the now revsionist take that he was the one actually at fault.

We could also point out that by opting to start in 06/07 you're beginning with an extreme outlier period in which we were unsusually strong defensively. Looking back on the years before then our goals conceded were 34, 26, 35, 34, 45, 31, 45, 37, 26, 44, 35, 28, 38, 31, 33. So not a single example of us having back to back seasons of conceding fewer than 30 goals, let alone the four in a row you're framing De Gea against. In fact we had as many sub-30 goal seasons in the ten years before your start date as the ten years with De Gea. If we're saying De Gea is the cause of us conceding more goals than we did in that 06-10 period, are we also saying Schmeichel was the cause of us conceding more goals than that across his time here too?

Because it would probably make more sense to conclude league goals conceded isn't a particularly good way of specifically assessing goalkeeper impact.

All fair points. Although I should stress I didn’t go any further back than I did because of laziness, rather than an attempt to deceive!

And yeah, the final sentence in your post is correct.

 

[Smithy89]

Brilliant shot stopper, but time to be replaced. Doesn't command his area and his distribution is a real issue.

 

[Xanther]

The sad irony of that post match interview he gave is that he's probably part of the problem. Like Rooney when he wanted to leave the first time

 

[The Oracle]

Shot-stopping: Excellent

Distribution: Average

Collecting crosses/command of area: Average

Organising defence: Average


That’s what we have as our No.1 goalkeeper.
The highest paid goalkeeper in World football.


He excels at one facet of goalkeeping. Nothing else.