[Pogue Mahone]

One last point on GK’s and centiles!

The top centiles will all be fairly crowded by the best around. So we’re talking about DDG providing very marginal gains. The difference between, say, 94th and 98th centile. This could work out as, say, one in every 20 or 30 of his saves being one that no other keeper could pull off.

However, his weaknesses are worse than other keepers by a much much higher extent. The problem of having a keeper who is obviously never relied on as a passing option and 5th centile for claiming crosses and sweeping outside his box will have a far more dramatic effect on team results and performances than being very marginally better at saving shots.

 

[V.O.]

Nobody is saying we should give the ball to De Gea more than we have to. But if we’re avoiding passing the ball to him more than 99% of other goalkeepers in all of the top 5 leagues (over the past 365 days) then that’s obviously a fundamental problem.

That’s the thing with DDG. All players have strengths and weaknesses. We accept the weaknesses if the strengths make up for it. Take Bruno and his pass completion %. He creates so many chances we kind of have to accept the random shanks into the stands. But his pass completion is 45th centile. Below average. DDG’s weaknesses are not merely below average, they are spectacularly bad. Worst in the league, worst in Europe bad.

As well as being 1st centile for passes attempted he’s also 1st centile for touches. Either he’s deliberately hiding or the defenders are shit scared of passing to him in case he cocks up.

He’s 6th centile for stopping crosses. 5th centile for defensive actions outside of his area. 95% of goalkeepers are better than him at these basic responsibilities. And he’s the best paid goalkeeper on the planet!

There’s no way a team with our aspirations can succeed with such an outlier in goal.

Yeah, those things are a different topic. He's a very passive goalkeeper, and that has always been as issue.

The touches/pass attempts just aren't an issue, though. That's just a playstyle/choice more than anything. Plenty of very good keepers will have a low number for those, including Oblak, Mendy, Navas etc. I bet the likes of Buffon and Cech would have been the same.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yeah, those things are a different topic. He's a very passive goalkeeper, and that has always been as issue.

The touches/pass attempts just aren't an issue, though. That's just a playstyle/choice more than anything. Plenty of very good keepers will have a low number for those, including Oblak, Mendy, Navas etc. I bet the likes of Buffon and Cech would have been the same.

Navas and Mendy are both 24th centile for passes attempted. Well below average but not the absolute clusterfeck that is a goalkeeper on the 1st centile. Oblak pretty bad too tbf, on the 5th centile.

That’s what it keeps coming back to for me. It’s not that he’s bad at certain things it’s that he’s worse than almost every other goalkeeper at these things.

 

[arthurka]

It was fecking annoying to watch DDG sit tight when the ball fell into his area 1.5 - 2m away from the goal with him rooted on the line. He is allowed to use his hands. He never relieves pressure. Pretty useless.

 

[SAFMUTD]

David de Gea has earned #mufc 15 points from denying clear-cut goalscoring chances in the Premier League this season, at least six more than any other goalkeeper. [@WhoScored]

Numero Uno https://t.co/DkUZgpnQhr

 

[Shane88]

We'd be circling the drain without him this season.

 

[sullydnl]

I’d like to see GK Twitter thread guy include range and accuracy of passing in his stats. I suspect this is another metric where DDG is miles below par. When we signed him that was supposed to be one of his best attributes but he’s regressed horribly and seems to be one of the worst keepers in the league with the ball at his feet. And, just like sweeping, this is one of the most important qualities for a keeper who plays for one of the stronger teams in the league.

Aye, Eric Steele had some comments on that recently:

I never agreed with the way United played out with Harry Maguire and Victor Lindelof because it took away one of David’s best attributes: his unbelievable natural ability to pass accurately and distribute the ball over distance. He can hit a 40-yard ball more accurately than Maguire and Lindelof. I looked at some of his clips from his second year recently — the distribution was incredible.

“It’s sad to have that taken away because it was part of the reason that we bought him, we wanted a young Edwin van der Sar. Maybe that will change under Rangnick because he’s not a big lover of playing these short triangles and inviting pressure.

I don't for a second belief that his long passing is as good as either Maguire's or Lindelof's but I could probably buy that it's less of a weakness than his short passing game and that the shift towards shorter passing might be partly why we have the perception of his passing game deteriorating over the years. Maybe his passing was always a bit crap but we were just looking for something different from it back then.

Looking at the stats, his pass completion % for long passes is better than Henderson's (whose two PL seasons are both worse than any of De Gea's last five in that regard) but still lags behind other top keepers, albeit with their pass completion probably benefitting somewhat from them opting to pass long less frequently.

 

[chiz2kul]

The fact that he is still playing at this level how many years later - what a guy. Massive respect.

 

[Red the Bear]

The perennial debates aside he has been our most consistent performer so far , might and day compared to the cluster duck of the past 3 seasons

He's deservedly player of our season till now.

 

[lex talionis]

It’s been a shitty decade, but Dave had been been by miles and miles our player of the last decade. What a shame we’ve given him shit to work with all time. On the other hand, had we been purring along with a stable back line Dave may never have developed into the keeper that is today.

 

[PaulRich]

If his form drops off we are fecked. Proper fecked.

 

[Amar__]

Why wasn't he captain last night?

 

[Kerry Donaghy]

Why wasn't he captain last night?

Maybe because the last time he was captain we lost 4-0 against Everton.

I know there aren't many other options but making the most timid player we've ever had the captain is just going to make things worse.

 

[Kerry Donaghy]

Why didn't he go up for the corner last night?

If a team needs a goal and it's the 3rd minute out of 4 in injury time then the goalkeeper goes up doesn't he? Isn't this just standard?

To be clear (before I get a backlash) I'm not in any way blaming him for the defeat yesterday as every outfield player, apart from Phil Jones, should be ashamed of their performance, I'm just genuinely baffled why he felt like he shouldn't go up for the corner at that point.

 

[Kerry Donaghy]

Nobody is saying we should give the ball to De Gea more than we have to. But if we’re avoiding passing the ball to him more than 99% of other goalkeepers in all of the top 5 leagues (over the past 365 days) then that’s obviously a fundamental problem.

That’s the thing with DDG. All players have strengths and weaknesses. We accept the weaknesses if the strengths make up for it. Take Bruno and his pass completion %. He creates so many chances we kind of have to accept the random shanks into the stands. But his pass completion is 45th centile. Below average. DDG’s weaknesses are not merely below average, they are spectacularly bad. Worst in the league, worst in Europe bad.

As well as being 1st centile for passes attempted he’s also 1st centile for touches. Either he’s deliberately hiding or the defenders are shit scared of passing to him in case he cocks up.

He’s 6th centile for stopping crosses. 5th centile for defensive actions outside of his area. 95% of goalkeepers are better than him at these basic responsibilities. And he’s the best paid goalkeeper on the planet!

There’s no way a team with our aspirations can succeed with such an outlier in goal.

Agree 100% with this and have been saying exactly this for ten years now.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Classic “bad Dave” moment last night when him and Shaw were both running to collect a ball that was rolling along the left side of our box. After a few moments of the standard indecisiveness we see on almost every Gk/defender interaction Dave “took control” and shanked the ball straight into touch with his left foot, under no pressure whatsoever.

The save from Neves was superb, mind you.

 

[Bebestation]

I know he has been better, but for me this is due to our team having less control of matches and him getting back to his most reactive self.

There's a part of me that looks at our gameplay and see's how much a central striker with no first touch and link up play can effect both the attacking and defensive balance of the whole team; and then I think -

If that is coming from a striker that is not all rounded - just how much could a non all rounded goalkeeper effect us on the pitch aswell?

He has been a great servant at our club, but I am looking forward to the day he finally leaves and we can have a goalkeeper who can control his box. I remember the high line we were playing with Henderson last year compared to the deep defending we played when de gea was starting - even if Henderson is not our GK of the future, it just showed me how much of a different team we can be with a different more all rounded goalkeeper.

 

[sullydnl]

One of my favourite players but that sure as shit isn't due to his immense physical bravery.

He plays like someone trying to psychologically overcome a terrible injury, except without actually having had that terrible injury. You'd think someone as into metal as he is would at least have that mosh pit experience to rely on.

Some solid saves though, as per usual.

 

[Relevated]

Spanish cat? More like Scardy cat

 

[LJJT]

Distribution with hands and feet poor. Can’t even throw it beyond an opposition player at one point

 

[Oranges038]

Plenty of balls in around the box he should be claiming, instead he's back on his line rocking on his heels.

Seriously needs to be replaced. His passiveness creates too much uncertainty and panic at the back.

Distribution was poor tonight.

 

[Alemar]

Excellent clean sheet, MotM contender yet again.

 

[Based Adnan]

Peak De Gea on Lindelof's poor touch where he bottled it back to his line like usual. Had plenty of time to help out his teammate and get to the ball before Watkins but nope.

Also the commentary for the disallowed goal for Villa summed it up. "The ball was in the air for an eternity".

 

[Van Piorsing]

Think he'll always make mistakes when team inviting pressure even against such uninspired team like Villa lately.

 

[sullydnl]

Incidentally, these were Rangnick's comments on him earlier:







Might agitate some of De Gea's more ardent critics.

Edit:

And again after the match.

 

[Marwood]

The lack of bravery from a goalkeeper. Never seen anything like it.

 

[VeevaVee]

He kept us in the game tonight you barm pots. So many brilliant saves tonight.

 

[JB7]

He kept us in the game tonight you barm pots. So many brilliant saves tonight.

Go on then, tell me about them. They had 4 shots on target and the only one that looked a decent stop at the game was from Cash but after seeing the replay, no PL goalkeeper should be letting that in. There was one in the first half from Buendia he ridiculously punched back out in the penalty area and was bloody lucky the striker was offside though. The other two "brilliant saves" were so brilliant they haven't even made any highlight packages from the game.

And I suppose we're ignoring Watkins hitting the bar when he could easily have come out and dealt with the ball off Lindelof's touch, the multiple other occasions he killed the defenders by not coming and dealing with the ball either on the ground or in the air, both disallowed goals where he was frankly pathetic, him kicking an uncontested ball directly out of play several times and him throwing the ball directly at a Villa players head? Other than those things, I'm sure he was great.

 

[izec]

Incidentally, these were Rangnick's comments on him earlier:







Might agitate some of De Gea's more ardent critics.

Edit:

And again after the match.

He is the undisputed number one, he wont say De Gea is shit, especially since we wont be able to get rid of him anyway on the wages he is on. Better to back him and talk him up

 

[Nicolarra90]

He's a reactive and defensive goalkeeper, not a bad thing per se but usually those work better in defensive teams. We should be an attacking team, we should have a different type of goalkeeper.

He's clearly comfortable on the line, but that always will give the other team about 20 meters advantage.

He's told to stay at the edge of the box to prevent this, but he's the whole game panicking there, and as soon as something happens like lindelof short header, he freaks out and runs back instead of dealing with the mistake. If he's clearly winning those he will go out, but in close ones like this one with watkins he will always go back. Schmikes would definitely go for it and I think VDS too, and they were the best and most sucessful gks we've had.

"when in Rome, do as the Romans"


tldr; He's a great defensive gk, but that's not or shouldn't be our fit.

 

[VeevaVee]

Go on then, tell me about them. They had 4 shots on target and the only one that looked a decent stop at the game was from Cash but after seeing the replay, no PL goalkeeper should be letting that in. There was one in the first half from Buendia he ridiculously punched back out in the penalty area and was bloody lucky the striker was offside though. The other two "brilliant saves" were so brilliant they haven't even made any highlight packages from the game.

And I suppose we're ignoring Watkins hitting the bar when he could easily have come out and dealt with the ball off Lindelof's touch, the multiple other occasions he killed the defenders by not coming and dealing with the ball either on the ground or in the air, both disallowed goals where he was frankly pathetic, him kicking an uncontested ball directly out of play several times and him throwing the ball directly at a Villa players head? Other than those things, I'm sure he was great.

What’s got your goat fella?

He made multiple quality saves - without them we’d have been in the shit, the end.

I didn’t mention him not coming out or his distribution, which wasn’t good enough, but it’s funny how other keepers can make very similar mistakes as these without the good saves and people make excuse after excuse for them.

 

[Longshanks]

Two incidents kind of sum up de gea for me from tonight.

Whe lindelof makes a mess of the High ball, de geas initial posistion is pretty good and he should come and deal with it weather he dives to claim the ball or just wallops it clear or out of play he should get there first before Watkins. Instead he fannies out and retreats allowing Watkins a shot from 6 yards and is unbelievably lucky that Watkins hit the bar.

Then for the disallowed goal when he fannies out of making any form of challenge on Watkins and instead meekly throws his hands at the ball with his eyes shut. Again gets lucky that VAR intervened.

Doesn't sweep and has no command of his area and thats before we get onto his distribution which was woeful tonight aswell.

Creates problems and uncertainty and with him in the team its almost impossible to play a high line because the defenders will always take an extra step back knowing that de gea is gonna retreat to his line if anything gets through or over them.

We are in trouble because it sounds like RR is a big fan of him, and I'm sure he will continue to make good saves and people will claim he's saving us, without taking into account with a more assertive goalkeeper we wouldnt give up half the chances we do now.

 

[UpWithRivers]

He is a world class bottom of the prem style goalkeeper. What I mean by this is that there is always bottom of the prem keepers that look class. Thats because they are being pummeled week in week out so they have a high percentage of saves. Watch highlights and you usually see them making goodish saves but most shots are bread and butter but they look good doing it. But if they go play for a top top side their weaknesses become apparent especially if they have to stand in goal and do nothing for 20 minutes because your defense is so good then the other team gets one chance or your defense make one lapse and you have to be 100 percent switched on or ready.

De Gea always looks brilliant because our defense is sht. Like today he made quite a few routine saves. For a lot of people that will stick in the memory and they will say he saved us. And in a lot of games he does. But his all round game is is very lacking. Today he saved the basics but made quite a few mistakes. Which will you remember.

 

[Nickelodeon]

I have been one of his biggest supporters on this forum. And he's been really good this season. But he has to come out more and collect the ball more often. It feels like we're sitting ducks on corners.

 

[simmee]

Two incidents kind of sum up de gea for me from tonight.

Whe lindelof makes a mess of the High ball, de geas initial posistion is pretty good and he should come and deal with it weather he dives to claim the ball or just wallops it clear or out of play he should get there first before Watkins. Instead he fannies out and retreats allowing Watkins a shot from 6 yards and is unbelievably lucky that Watkins hit the bar.

Then for the disallowed goal when he fannies out of making any form of challenge on Watkins and instead meekly throws his hands at the ball with his eyes shut. Again gets lucky that VAR intervened.

Doesn't sweep and has no command of his area and thats before we get onto his distribution which was woeful tonight aswell.

Creates problems and uncertainty and with him in the team its almost impossible to play a high line because the defenders will always take an extra step back knowing that de gea is gonna retreat to his line if anything gets through or over them.

We are in trouble because it sounds like RR is a big fan of him, and I'm sure he will continue to make good saves and people will claim he's saving us, without taking into account with a more assertive goalkeeper we wouldnt give up half the chances we do now.

Agree on the Lindelöf mistake. He definitely makes a mess of it and don't know what he was thinking trying to trap that ball. The only reasonable play to make there is to head or kick it back to De Gea first time so he really should be further out and on his toes and ready for it.

 

[Red00012]

Player of the season so far but far too soft as usual for the goal. He really doesn’t want to get hurt

 

[Bebestation]

Can't wait until he is gone.

That corner that was taken where it bounced of 3 people is just something I can't handle to keep watching for too long.

A pure reactionary top class GK than a proactive world class one. Looking forward to the day we have a manager that might want to change this as soon as he gets the job.

 

[JB7]

What’s got your goat fella?

He made multiple quality saves - without them we’d have been in the shit, the end.

I didn’t mention him not coming out or his distribution, which wasn’t good enough, but it’s funny how other keepers can make very similar mistakes as these without the good saves and people make excuse after excuse for them.

As I said, tell what me the quality saves were. I even gave you two of the four possible options. If the two I've forgotten are worldies that other PL keepers wouldn't make in their sleep I'm more than happy to admit it.

 

[VeevaVee]

As I said, tell what me the quality saves were. I even gave you two of the four possible options. If the two I've forgotten are worldies that other PL keepers wouldn't make in their sleep I'm more than happy to admit it.

Manchester United v Aston Villa | Key Moments | Third Round | Emirates FA Cup 2021-22 - YouTube

First save is decent. Yes keepers should be making it, and he did, so well done. For Lindelof's feck up, he wouldn't have made it. Big chance he'd have been done and we concede. Save at 1.37 was good and not easy.

Far from saying it was a perfect game, but he was one of the few players that contributed to us winning, even if he was poor in certain aspects.

 

[JB7]

Manchester United v Aston Villa | Key Moments | Third Round | Emirates FA Cup 2021-22 - YouTube

First save is decent. Yes keepers should be making it, and he did, so well done. For Lindelof's feck up, he wouldn't have made it. Big chance he'd have been done and we concede. Save at 1.37 was good and not easy.

Far from saying it was a perfect game, but he was one of the few players that contributed to us winning, even if he was poor in certain aspects.

Yeah I watched those highlights before replying to your original post. The first save is absolutely not decent, as you say, he should be making it, but he pushes it right back out to the striker and is fortunate that he was offside. I think DDG of years gone by catches it to be honest. His positioning is good and as such he barely has to move to stop it, to push it out to the striker is criminal.

Lindelofs feck up is his ball all day. Again, his positioning is actually not bad but he is all back foot. In a weird way it's similar to the goal in the Europa League final where his starting position is good and he is favourite for the ball if his instinct is not to drop. The issue comes with his movement immediately after Lindelofs touch, he's indecisive. Side steps as if he's thinking of coming by which time it's far too late and he backtracks to his line.

Save at 1:37 is a decent save. I thought inside the ground it was an excellent save but from looking at the highlights it's a good save that any PL keeper should be making. Henderson & Heaton would be making that stop for example.

Simply put, I don't see where the "multiple quality saves" were and find it a complete double standard that he can be praised for last night when he put in a 5/10 performance at best considering the vast majority of our players would be (and are being) chastised if they made half as many basic errors as he did in that game. Thinking about it he's actually had several 5/10 performances - if I'm being generous - over the past few months and still been praised and even been given our Player of the Month twice so I probably shouldn't be surprised.