That's pretty dumb since Peter has been critical of Dave before.
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That's pretty dumb since Peter has been critical of Dave before.
Hard game when your CBs are shooting at you too.
This game was the Liverpool game score if not for him. Partly at fault for the 2nd, however you would trust your defenders (Shaw in this instance) of covering that cross quite convincingly.
This game was the Liverpool game score if not for him. Partly at fault for the 2nd, however you would trust your defenders (Shaw in this instance) of covering that cross quite convincingly.
He had barely anything to do midweek and chucked one in.
He's error prone. Has been for years now. Today's goal has happened before, can't quite recollect against who but almost a carbon copy.
The goal is on him indeed, but that fixes the tip of the iceberg. De Gea is not there to instruct every dangerous situation, he has no protection and is forced to make saves from defenders leaving acres of space every game.
Chances are Bailly would collide with him because he's a random irrational, the last thing defender should be in these type situations. Bissaka gave so much time and space for these crosses to occur in the first place, the Russian army could have military parade there and none of these uncommunicative drones would even notice.
We had three central defenders in the box for the sake of numbers and it was all for nothing.
These fecking tweets every week. They must be running out of clichés.Big Dave deserves more than one Premier League title considering the performances he’s put in for us over the years.
Yeah, it's incredibly odd that our defence has been consistently dreadful during his 10 years at the club despite every defender in front of him changing multiple times isn't it? Almost as if there is a common denominator.
Look, the main person responsible for defensive orgamisation is the goalkeeper. After him you're looking at the most dominant centre back.
If he is behind a defence that is leaking chances and he's having to make saves because of it. Then he needs to be more vocal and commanding and organise those in front of him better. He doesn't do that, he just goes back to his line and waits there for the next save
The real problem with this defence is that they do not play as a unit, the goalkeeper is a coward with no presence and the captain and supposed leader of the team is a giant mouse. Neither of them have any courage or backbone to stand up and take control of the situation and sort it out.
Bad coaching?
It was somewhere near the bottom of the list of problems with the whole performance, and he made plenty of good saves, but nothing fecked me off more today than when he looked like he was more worried about knocking into the post than stopping the fecking ball on that second goal.
Interesting he wasn't a coward and mouse in 2013 when he had something resembling a solid PL defense. He was even less bulked, less vocal and less experienced but somehow was chosen in team of the year with main trophy under his belt.
At this rate, he'll be forced to shout everytime the ball is in the box, since defenders look like they never had one training session together under belt.
Yep, all the different managers and coaches have been dreadful. All the countless defenders have been dreadful. It couldn't possibly be that he's a nightmare to play in front of and has virtually no relationship on the pitch with any of his defenders.
You need more from a goalkeeper, I am astonished anyone who has seen him on the same pitch as Allison and Ederson in the last two weeks can have anything positive to say about him whatsoever. The same defenders go off to their international teams and suddenly look like world beaters when they're in front of offensive goalkeepers. He's a brilliant shot stopper but creates so many problems by sticking to his line like glue, he's essentially Shay Given at this point and it costs us goals every single game - but he makes a couple of saves and we pretend he was man of the match.
They are a unit. They need to work together and talk and control that backline. They don't do that, he should be the main orchestator of it, he is the most senior player out there, he's the highest paid goalkeeper in the world ffs. They don't demand off each other or look out for each other, it's every man for himself back there. And all he does is wait on his line to make saves. That is just not good enough anymore.
Today he shouted away at a ball that came 30 yards and dropped 3 yards from his goal line and it cost a goal. That is just totally unacceptable in any game in any league. But none of them react or criticise or point fingers they just throw their arms in the air and turn away. You need to do those things on the pitch, to understand that it's not going to be accepted from your team mates to do that shit so it doesn't happen again. He's now done it twice in 2 games.
His relfexes and saves are awesome. But that really is all he has. He has never dealt with any of his weaknesses in the last 10 years. It's criminal that none of them have ever been addressed by him or the club. Everybodies still just being blinded by all the saves.
I've suggested to several people on here and in other chats to go and play a few games in goal like the way he does, don't sweep, don't claim any high balls, not even in the 6 yard box, just stick there to your line waiting for saves. Then come back to me and tell me it doesn't cause massive problems and utter confusion in defence.
Does anyone at all, even his biggest fans, think he is a comparable choice to the likes of Alisson, Ederson and Donnarumma as a world class keeper?
As much as rival fans will often recognise him bailing us out and talk about his great saves, I know no-one, absolutely no rival fans, who envy De Gea and would want him playing for them.
As much as rival fans will often recognise him bailing us out and talk about his great saves, I know no-one, absolutely no rival fans, who envy De Gea and would want him playing for them.
First goal, can't really pin much blame on de gea directly, but does it happen with a more commanding goalkeeper? Debatable.
Second goal which was the killer 100% de geas fault. Goalkeepers ball all day, it bounces 3/4 yards infront of goal before getting through to silva, he could easily claim it under no pressure and end the attack there and then, instead he wants his defenders to clear it for a corner? Schoolboy again.
He made some good saves today but ultimately his lack of command causes so many problems and defenders have to deal with so much they shouldn't have to.
It speaks volumes that I look back at Jordan pickfords performances in the summer for England almost jealous of the feeling of having a GK command his area and take charge of balls into the box, not watching the cbs trying to scrabble balls away from there own 6 yard box was a pleasure.
So what's the moral of the story ? We either put pressure on Henderson to the rest of the season or spew another heavy millions for new goalkeeper to be forced working with a non-existant unit and believe in substantial change.
Our defenders can't prevent a simple cross, and since we talk about money - they cost more than entire football clubs. Bailly pretty much ended our game early on with kamikaze defending.
If De Gea's not good enough and should leave eventually... should Maguire, Shaw, Bissaka and Bailly also leave ? 17 goals conceded, how many goals were fault of defenders in comparison to De Gea's ?
Sell De Gea, get Pickford and let's see what happens then. Let's actually see how long Pickford will last with current defense setup. Interesting how many avalanches of shots he can stop during the season.
I don't know how many were who's fault. I'd say at least 6 were Maguire. Probably 3 or 4 directly on De Gea.
Yes, Maguire, Shaw and Wan Bissaka are not good enough and all need to be replaced. Bailly was never good enough he's had some good moments but he's an absolute bomb scare of a defender.
Henderson should be playing and he would be were it not for him being sick. The stats with him in goal last year speak for themselves aside from that it's obvious the whole team plays better with him in goal.
He won't be dealing with as many shots as what dave does because he will have a positive influence on calming and organising the defence.
Superb exchange, thank you for this. Also thank you for answering simple questions. (No sarcasm)
New manager with proper credentials will probably need even up to 4-5 years to make proper clearout of pretty much everybody, find buyers, not to mention proper replacements. Something needs to be done on a bigger scale, someday.
Captain material for GK's is a way to go then. I don't see much of a different way.
Clearly he can't win, he was left 1 v 11 FFS.
Bruno Fernandes says Manchester United need to do more to protect goalkeeper David De Gea.
The Spaniard made several world-class saves during the first half of the Manchester derby, but Eric Bailly’s own goal and a Bernardo Silva effort consigned the Reds to a disappointing 2-0 defeat.
De Gea was probably United’s standout performer, as he has been many times this season, on a day the visitors dominated and Fernandes recognises this, suggesting the scoreline would have been much worse had it not been for David.
https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/bruno-fernandes-reaction-to-man-utd-0-man-city-2
The Spaniard made several world-class saves during the first half of the Manchester derby, but Eric Bailly’s own goal and a Bernardo Silva effort consigned the Reds to a disappointing 2-0 defeat.
De Gea was probably United’s standout performer, as he has been many times this season, on a day the visitors dominated and Fernandes recognises this, suggesting the scoreline would have been much worse had it not been for David.
https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/bruno-fernandes-reaction-to-man-utd-0-man-city-2
Word. Not just Pickford, I'd like to hear which goalkeeper would of saved us from yesterday's defeat? Oblak, Henderson, Neuer, Donnarumma ...?
He obviously has his flaws, but making him look like a main culprit here is simply unbelievable and disgraceful.
I there hadn't been Ronaldo and him, only Lord knows where we would be right now
The next step is to start insulting him (like some of the fans already began with Ole) and eventually calling him a failure when he leaves.
Blaming De Gea at all today is ignoring the real problem. Neither cross should have been allowed to be made by Fernandes/AWB, and Shaw should never have let that ball go through. He was obviously MOTM today.
The root of United's current crisis lies in defence, or the anarchy that has been going on in its name.
The root of United Defence current (and past 3 seasons) ineptitude can be traced to David De Gea.
If we cannot fix our goalkeeper, we cannot fix the team. Simple.
The root of United Defence current (and past 3 seasons) ineptitude can be traced to David De Gea.
If we cannot fix our goalkeeper, we cannot fix the team. Simple.
Pickford????? Come on. Surely this is a joke right? Dude has soap for gloves. Yeah he yells a lot and is British. Other than that a bang average keeper.
There is a reason neither of the top teams in the world have a English keeper.
I think you need fix your sarcasm detector.
Pickford isn't the answer, he has limitations but he does command his area quite well if nothing else. Certainly in comparison to de gea.
At the end of the day, the more the goalkeeper deals with in his own box the better for the team. When the goalkeeper grabs the ball, thats the attack over and you have possesion and a chance to build your own attack in a controlled manner. When the defenders are trying to deal with it in there own box it more than likely ends up in a set-piece or it gets scrabbled away in an uncontrolled manner and 9 times out of ten come straight back and the team remains under pressure.
You want to try a limit pressure on your own goal and you want more possesion generally speaking, de gea causes negatives in both of those areas.
If you then add into the factor that he isnt very good with the ball at his feet causing us problems playing out from the back and he also doesn't sweep very well meaning we cant play with a high line and he's pretty average at one on ones. It's hard to know why anyones rates him as a top keeper anymore.
The only thing he is good at is stopping snap shots, he's world class at it in fairness, but everything else he is below average in some cases and just very poor in others.
We thought it was the owners, we thought it was the managers, we thought it was the lack of threat on the right wing, we thought it was the shit CB's, but now we know all our issues can be traced back to Dave not communicating enough. Would have won the under van Gaal and the treble under Jose if it wasn't for Dave.
Agree 100%, I've been saying this for a long long time, the knock on effects of De Gea's passiveness are massive.
It's not just about the disastrous effects it has on the defence it has a massive impact on possession/ball retention and therefore our attacking play also.
If your goalkeeper actually commands his area and claims the ball from time to time (as opposed to literally never) then you instantly have possession and, on an even more positive note, are primed and ready for a counter attack (which we are excellent at and always have been), Schmeical and VDS were excellent at this, and (coincidence?) we where a fantastic side back then.
Even when Henderson (who I admit the jury is still out on) played last year we scored a good few goals because of this.
If you leave every single cross for your defenders to deal with, then even if they win the header, it's a lottery as to where the ball ends up, this is the whole reason why a keeper should be taking the lead.
It honestly wouldn't matter to me if De Gea was the best shot stopper in the the world, to give up that whole crucial aspect of goal-keeping for anyone is just not worth it.
You could forgive this passiveness if he was a young player learning his trade but he's the opposite to that, he's meant to be one of the senior/experienced players and is on massive wages that we could probably have 2-3 other world class players on instead of, if he left.
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Comedy Dave
I watched the highlights of the Roma game the other day for reference. 5/6 of his saves were chances given up from him not coming to claim balls into the box. I said it at back then and was criticised for it, but when you watch it back it's clear as day.
The pressure a goalkeeper can take off defenders by coming and claiming crosses and set pieces is massive. But, why would you catch one ball and deprive yourself of a chance to make a few saves and look like a hero?
Third best shot stopper in the league so far behind Ramsdale and Mendy. His cross claiming and sweeping stats are appalling though. He catches a cross on average once every 3 games and makes a sweeping action on average once every 5 games!
He catches a cold more often than he catches a cross!
Jokes aside, what makes it even worse is that a lot of the crosses we face are played directly towards the 6-yard box.
De Gea is a coward. He is genuinely frightened of getting clattered by opposition players. He is scared of the ball - he even treated it like a hot potato for City's 2nd goal (and was more concerned about clattering into the post).
We're fans and we can see it a mile off. So just imagine how aware the opposition are with regards to De Gea's refusal to collect crosses even when they're towards the 6-yard box.
I honestly believe we're the only team in the Premier League that has a goalkeeper who refuses to collect crosses that are played towards our 6-yard box... and the knock-on effect for our defence is incredible... it immediately puts them under pressure every single time - as even they know they're not going to get any support from De Gea.
He truly is a dreadful goalkeeper. Shot-stopping is his only quality. Every other facet of being a great keeper is severely lacking with him
...and it is hurting us season after season.
I don't think improving in any single position makes this team improve as much as it would if it had a truly world class, modern goalkeeper. He can't catch crosses which is a big reason the set piece record is awful, he can't sweep so we can't play the high line like we did for a period when Hendo was in last season, and his godawful distribution means we can't play from the back like literally every top team on the planet. The goalkeeper is supposed to be the spare man in build up, yet for us we play 10 v 11 when we have the ball because he is appalling at both offering for the ball and adding any value in possession.
You just have to look at how Arsenal are a transformed team since replacing Leno with Ramsdale. Heck, even City in the 17/18 team virtually had the same XI as the 16/17 season bar the fact they changed the RB and brought Ederson in. If for nothing else, Ole should be fired for giving him a £90m contract at least a year after his shot stopping ability declined 'cos Lord knows that's all he was ever good for.
You just have to look at how Arsenal are a transformed team since replacing Leno with Ramsdale. Heck, even City in the 17/18 team virtually had the same XI as the 16/17 season bar the fact they changed the RB and brought Ederson in. If for nothing else, Ole should be fired for giving him a £90m contract at least a year after his shot stopping ability declined 'cos Lord knows that's all he was ever good for.
Yet he won the PL under a good manager. We don't play as a team. It's down to bad coaching. Do you think DeGea told Ole I am not going to come out and claim any crosses?
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