Both Alisson and Ederson have more errors leading to goals than DDG just saying
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It is not just about errors, it is about style of play. De Gea is a reactive goalkeeper who instills fear in his defence. Ederson is a proactive goalkeeper. Just look at the pass Ederson played for Gundogan's second goal at the weekend. De Gea couldn't even dream of doing something like that.
Tbh I don't think actual errors have been De Gea's main problem this season (unlike the last two seasons where they very much were). If the rest of De Gea's goalkeeping was at his peak level then only the most determined would be criticising him, even with his stylistic flaws.
The problem is that his general goalkeeping has been fairly mediocre, including shot stopping which is supposed to be his forte.
Ederson punting it up the field is a terrible example of him being proactive, if you want to beat De Gea with that talk about Ederson and Alisson being sweeper keepers of course the flip side of that is when they're embarassed like Alisson was at the weekend
My main issue with De Gea as well as the errors that are now 100% part of his game is that he's stopped saving us. He no longer makes the WC saves that he once did, seems these days every shot results in a goal or he makes a mistake and then that results in a goal. He's just become a pretty average GK not excelling at anything and being dodgy to boot
Didn't work for Pogba when he faked bleeding from his mouth for two minutes after being elbowed by Mings.
What has become obvious to me is that VAR, from the sanctity of the VAR bus, will check whatever the feck he wants to check and ignore whatever he wants to ignore based on the narrative/biases/Klopp's latest comments. Absolutely no pressure on him. Considering that he didn't check that situation but deemed our pen a clear and obvious error it's pretty obvious that no delay in the game would've made him disallow their goal, because he simply didn't have enforcing the laws of the game at the top of his priority list.
The thing is that de Gea not coming out to catch a cross that then leads to a free header being scored from four yards out is often not going to register as an 'error leading to goal', because it's just decision making being poor.
The Everton equaliser is a perfect example. Some people pointed out that DCL's shot had an xG of 0.58 so de Gea had no chance of saving it, ie couldn't be a mistake. But the mistake, that doesn't count in the statistics, is that de Gea's starting position is always so close to the line that he allows the shot to be taken. If de Gea's four yards off his line as the free kick is floated into the box he gets there before DCL does.
Of course it's not a mistake to concede from a header from four yards out, and it's not a mistake to concede a tap-in from five yards out. Nobody's going to register it as a mistake leading to goal if a ball is played over the top of the defence and the keeper doesn't come out and sweep despite having ample time to do so, and it won't register as a mistake if the player scores the 1v1, unless he fumbles the ball or something. The mistake is being so afraid of coming off your line that these shots and headers are allowed to be taken, and that's just a matter of his decision making and his playing style as a goalkeeper.
If this was a one off then fair enough I would see the case for defending the keeper here, but it's not a one off, it's happening every single week.
If the cross was a few yards close to him and even higher then he probably still wouldn't of come for it anyway because he very rarely does.
As one other poster said also, it's about his positioning/anticipation too, it's basically nonexistent.
The midfielder was always going to be whipping that ball in from there, most keepers are on their toes, anticipating that, and if so then I honestly think it's a standard catch.
it is like a dropped catch in cricket. If the fielder wants to dodge a dropped catch he doesn't dive to try and catch it. He dives and if he gets his fingers and then drop it they say it is a dropped catch. So if DeGea doesn't come out and collect it, then it is not recorded as his mistake. But they do not count that he can come out and collect the ball before they take a header at goal.
I have been one of his biggest supporters but now he needs to go. We need someone who is commanding in his box, who can kick the ball and can sweep up too. Yes sweeping up, the keeper is going to make mistakes but the odds are better in nipping it in the bud before it develops into a dangerous situation and the opposition attempts to score.
I have been one of his biggest supporters but now he needs to go. We need someone who is commanding in his box, who can kick the ball and can sweep up too. Yes sweeping up, the keeper is going to make mistakes but the odds are better in nipping it in the bud before it develops into a dangerous situation and the opposition attempts to score.
This is one of our biggest problems in defence that we have a reactive goalkeeper rather than a proactive one.
I cant find the link now because it's so old but there was this article talking about how our defenders preferred playing in front of Romero last season in the cups than in front of De Gea.
Even if it's fake- a goalkeeper more proactive in his game like Romero leaves us with ultimately another defender in the worst of scenarios that can also use his hands.
De Gea never really feels like that. Seems just like a moving training piece that blocks off shots on the goalkeeper line.
Errors don't really bother me. They are typically one offs. It's the stupid mistakes that lead to goals that he doesn't get blamed for that are done over and over and over that drive me nuts.
For example, being in a poor position when a shot is taken doesn't count as a mistake that leads to a goal, but it's a goal that should have been saved.
Yesterday De Gea let a guy head the ball from inside his 6. That was a goal that should have easily been avoided but because he stood on his line we are down 1-0. Technically it shouldn't even have been a shot on goal because it should have been caught or punched. This isn't technically a mistake that lead to a goal, but anyone who knows his position will tell you that it was...
Anyone saw De Gea's amazing double saves after Maguire's mistake?
It was a very good cross that's just far enough to deter most keepers from coming out to claim it. Don't believe? Check Alisson or E. Martinez's or other keeper's games.
They also will not claim some balls. The situation belonged to the defender. If the keeper comes out too often, it causes confusion and not to mention, collision between own players.
It was a very good cross that's just far enough to deter most keepers from coming out to claim it. Don't believe? Check Alisson or E. Martinez's or other keeper's games.
They also will not claim some balls. The situation belonged to the defender. If the keeper comes out too often, it causes confusion and not to mention, collision between own players.
You mean the save that would have been called off for a foul had they scored? Yes, I saw. It was an unbelievable double save and Maguire should have just cleared that ball away.
With that being said, making a great save doesn't make up for all his problems. Our defense will NEVER improve with De Gea in goal. Maguire is one of the best headers in the league (only 2 players have won more headers this year) and even he is only winning 75% of his headers.
As a keeper, De Gea depends on his defenders winning every ball. West Brom scored from 4-5 yards out because De Gea stayed on his line. And this isn't the first time. It happens time and time again. Sure, it doesn't go down as a "mistake" but it is.
De Gea is part of the defense and the 6 yard box is his area to defend when it comes to crosses.
And no, it wasn't a great cross. It was a floated cross into the 6. De Gea was too deep to begin with, and then didn't come out. He should have already been 3-4 yards off his line as it was kicked and then he should have come and claimed or punched. It shouldn't even have been a scoring chance. If anyone can't see this then I don't know what to say. He's brutal and has been for a long time...
Have you seen the many GK stats that put De Gea in the below-average bracket for the league and even in the top 3 worst keepers in some areas? Alisson has been having a mare of a season as well so far, why would you even bring it up?
Agree with this. Everton’s third goal still really bothers me. I genuinely think a lot of goalkeepers would have got to the ball before DCL or, at least, at virtually the same time. De Gea seemed to actively avoid going out to the ball and made it a fairly easy chance to put away. Of course, keepers make mistakes but that type of hesitation/reluctance to risk putting himself in harm’s way is not something that should ever be seen from a top keeper.
Annoyed with him now. Henderson should get a run of games.
He absolutely has a notional glass wall in the build up to the third goal. He's very quick to react I think, but he instinctively goes up to DCL whereas most keepers would just take ball and man even if they got a whack in the face for it
Or at least come out at him and make yourself big. He might not save it, but it will be a lot better than staying on his line, turning his head and making himself smaller....ugh
De Gea has the fastest reflexes and reactions. If he cannot reach the ball before DCL, I don't think most of the other keepers can reach first as well except maybe keepers who are on top form.
I've been thinking about how De Gea can be described and the best analogy I can come up with is similar to one that is used to describe strikers. People often say a striker isn't a great goal scorer, but rather a scorer of great goals. If we take that analogy and put it towards De Gea then I think it makes perfect sense, especially if you think about the double save he made against West Brom. So here it goes...
De Gea isn't a great goal keeper. He is a goal keeper who makes great saves
De Gea isn't a great goal keeper. He is a goal keeper who makes great saves
You can't make an error if you never go near the ball.
I am not really sold on the De Gea not coming out to collect a freekick, being a big issue. Is it something every keeper does for every goal? Pretty sure De Gea has come out for some and not come out for some.
I remember many set piece goals in which the keeper stays on the goal. Ter Stegen on PSG's 3rd goal for one.
I remember many set piece goals in which the keeper stays on the goal. Ter Stegen on PSG's 3rd goal for one.
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Tell that to players who used to play with or against Schmeichel. If the ball came into that 6 yard area it was his and he’d wipe out whoever got in his way. I remember Bruce and Pallister often got a big punch on the head or clattered. But it must have been reassuring for his defenders to know he’d claim or clear most stuff that came in the air
When do we think he gets dropped? At some point we'll need to properly assess Henderson as his successor before the Summer and there's no way to do that without giving him a run of games.
He wont get dropped. Ole loves him
Time to drop him. Deano is commanding his box.
I just know we would have conceded tonight if De Gea started. Seeing Henderson control his defenders and patrol his area is a beautiful thing to see. Saw many times where Henderson came off his line to punch or catch that De Gea never would have came for...
Don't think we score the 3rd goal with De Gea. Henderson had an aggressive starting position to claim the cross and then instantly released it to Fred. De Gea stays on his line.
I also think ddg tries to find Rashford himself rather than giving it to Fred to do it
I came here to say the same.
People say that he is a shot stopper. All GKs are shot stoppers it is part of the job description. What made him special was his ability to produce those moments of magic stopping shots that other goalies wouldnt even come close to.
He has been a great soldier for many years and honestly feel like people might be bashing him a bit - I do get it last year he really underperformed. Not so sure about this year myself.
What everyone must agree to is that De Gea has taken a hit in form over the last few seasons, but that was off an incredibly high peak.
Wasn’t it just two seasons ago he put in a completely insane performance against Tottenham? And was that performance itself not that unusual?
If that De Gea is gone, never to be found again, then we should find a new home for him and develop Henderson. But let’s be realistic: Henderson will never reach the level of De Gea between 2015-2019.
Wasn’t it just two seasons ago he put in a completely insane performance against Tottenham? And was that performance itself not that unusual?
If that De Gea is gone, never to be found again, then we should find a new home for him and develop Henderson. But let’s be realistic: Henderson will never reach the level of De Gea between 2015-2019.
The problem this year is that he isn't making those big saves. He hasn't won us a game in ages. Many say he kept 1 point for us vs West Brom but that goal would have been disallowed for the foul once VAR took a look. He also should have stopped the first goal. Sorry, let me reword that. He shouldn't have stopped the header, he should have prevented it from even happening. He is horrible positionally and doesn't patrol his 6. We need a keeper who is brilliant at the basics. VDS was never even close to be as agile as De Gea, but he was a better keeper. He might not have had a YouTube highlight reel quite like De Gea (nobody does) but VDS did the simple things that makes the position so much easier to play. I can see that in Henderson and think he should get a run of games. In his last two games against West Ham and Real Socieadad he didn't face many shots. A big part of that was because of how vocal he is and how proactive he is in patrolling his area. He comes for balls that De Gea would only dream of and it's a huge help to the defense...
Honestly mate, I've been more frustrated with our back 2 rather than DDG but I'm not trying to say he shouldn't be better.
My concern is his contract. I doubt any team of your typical big clubs list would even have a go at this point.
I seem to recollect Real trying to get him and us pulling one on them. At this point of time maybe Juventus? They do need a replacement don't they?
I don't understand what has happened to David. It's like he has reverted back to his 2011-2014 phase. When he wasn't confident at collecting crosses and coming off his line. Though he made much less mistakes back then, and had decent kicking. It's like he has regressed but is now adding mistakes to his game.
What happened to peak De Gea who would come for crosses, would win games for us, and had decent kicking?
What happened to peak De Gea who would come for crosses, would win games for us, and had decent kicking?
De Gea was always poor at coming for crosses. Not as bad as he is now, but he's always been below average. It's likely that he's just gotten even worse now because of a lack of confidence and/or hunger.
Man Utd 3:1 Newcastle
Another goal where the ball is floated into the 6 yard area and he's rooted to his line
Teams will do nothing but float the ball into 6 yards box at any chance against us now as their attacking plan.
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And several saves where being on his line stopped a goal
I thought he was good today and was really solid against West Brom. Wanting him to be dropped right now makes 0 sense
You mean the long range efforts that were straight at him? Yeah any PL keeper saves those
There was actually one save that ASM hit with venom that was hard and low he held onto but the only reason that happened is, you guessed it, De Gea was rooted to his line once again as a cross got floated in
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