[Kostov]

I dont think we will win major trophies with lindelof
But he was fouled. When rival fans and pundits like soueness think so, then you know it's a foul. @Kostov

But this is the ddg thread hence why I'm focusing on him. Ddg in your own words should not pussy out like a bitch

He was not fouled, and stop making excuses, we are not fecking Arsenal. Using what Souness said really means nothing.

Yes DDG should come out more and claim crosses, but he is not that kind of keeper and never will be, however we can be competitive with that kind of GK, with a CB like LIndelof, we will probably fight for a top 4 at best.

 

[Cassidy]

He was not fouled, and stop making excuses, we are not fecking Arsenal. Using what Souness said really means nothing.

Yes DDG should come out more and claim crosses, but he is not that kind of keeper and never will be, however we can be competitive with that kind of GK, with a CB like LIndelof, we will probably fight for a top 4 at best.

Its a foul any day of the week

 

[Jeppers7]

No it was not a foul, stop making excuses for shit performances by average players.

Goal at 24 seconds

Watch this and tell me that's a foul/



Lindelof must be stronger and win that header in front of the striker, the same arguments you use for DDG not going out and catch it, count for Lindelof was too slow and too weak to clear a simple fecking header.


We often defend deep because Lindelof refuses to commit to any sort of defending and just backpaddles in front of DDG and back in the box. I agree that DDG might not be good enough any more, but one thing is for sure, Lindelof never was and will never be good enough to start.

Watch this replay where you can’t see the foul.....and tell me it was a foul.

Nice one.

 

[Kostov]

Watch this replay where you can’t see the foul.....and tell me it was a foul.

Nice one.

Maybe you need better glasses not sure, or please provide a video of the foul you are talking about.

 

[Kostov]

Its a foul any day of the week

Just not on Sundays, and probably not on Saturdays.

 

[arnie_ni]

Maybe you need better glasses not sure, or please provide a video of the foul you are talking about.

Go the var thread. It's a stonewall foul

 

[UncleBob]

No it was not a foul, stop making excuses for shit performances by average players.

Goal at 24 seconds

Watch this and tell me that's a foul/



Lindelof must be stronger and win that header in front of the striker, the same arguments you use for DDG not going out and catch it, count for Lindelof was too slow and too weak to clear a simple fecking header.


We often defend deep because Lindelof refuses to commit to any sort of defending and just backpaddles in front of DDG and back in the box. I agree that DDG might not be good enough any more, but one thing is for sure, Lindelof never was and will never be good enough to start.

Ofcourse it's a fecking foul.

 

[roonster09]

The goal was clear foul, ref was pathetic as usual when it comes to soft fouls for small teams.

Saying that, any coach would drop De Gea. Foul or not, he should be catching that cross. He is too passive and he will be the big reason why Ole will be sacked,

 

[UncleBob]

The goal was clear foul, ref was pathetic as usual when it comes to soft fouls for small teams.

Saying that, any coach would drop De Gea. Foul or not, he should be catching that cross. He is too passive and he will be the big reason why Ole will be sacked,

 

[Kostov]

Ofcourse it's a fecking foul.

It wasn't a foul, go and watch the video of the incident' it happened in part of a second and Lindelof was just weak as per usual, those pictures make it look worse than it actually was.

 

[roonster09]

As usual

 

[roonster09]

There are many GKs (even Henderson) who comes out and claims those crosses or punches them away, makes the whole thing non event but with De Gea it will end up pressuring CBs. He is too passive and he doesn't have reflexes like he used to. There is 0 point playing him but for some odd reason Ole is too scared to make the changes.

 

[UncleBob]

It wasn't a foul, go and watch the video of the incident' it happened in part of a second and Lindelof was just weak as per usual, those pictures make it look worse than it actually was.

 

[roonster09]

First goal was painfully weak goalkeeping. It wasn’t even whipped in hard and fast. Fecking cross was looped so high in the air there are Sunday league keepers who would have made a comfortable catch. Honestly don’t think there’s another keeper in the league who stays standing right under his crossbar in that scenario.

Exactly. It was easy enough to claim the cross, he is too afraid to leave the line and then we have a CB who is too weak to deal with any physical battles.

He makes our CB looks worse than they are, we need a proactive GK. Should at least give chances to Henderson who is better when it comes to dealing with crosses.

 

[Kostov]

At the end you can only laugh and cry out for refs, that's what Liverpool fans used to do, until they finally realized that Skrtel, Sakho and similar were actually not good enough, and it's not everyone's else fault.

 

[Kostov]

There are many GKs (even Henderson) who comes out and claims those crosses or punches them away, makes the whole thing non event but with De Gea it will end up pressuring CBs. He is too passive and he doesn't have reflexes like he used to. There is 0 point playing him but for some odd reason Ole is too scared to make the changes.

I agree that Henderson should have started yesterday, but a CB feeling a pressure to win a simple cross which he instead backs off and fails to hold off the striker is baffling piece of defending and nothing to do with the GK.

EDIT: And I would have understood if it was actually some quality striker who would have fooled him with his movement, but it was some no name playing for WBA.

 

[roonster09]

I agree that Henderson should have started yesterday, but a CB feeling a pressure to win a simple cross which he instead backs off and fails to hold off the striker is baffling piece of defending and nothing to do with the GK.

It's a combination. Lindelof is poor CB, probably weakest CB in the league when it comes to strength. That doesn't mean it's wasn't easy cross to claim, which meant the danger ended then and there.

It's a team game, CBs and GK work as a combination. Lindelof was very poor for the goal, so was De Gea.

 

[UncleBob]

At the end you can only laugh and cry out for refs, that's what Liverpool fans used to do, until they finally realized that Skrtel, Sakho and similar were actually not good enough, and it's not everyone's else fault.

Great.
Meanwhile, in the real world, it's a freekick. Diagne plants his hand in Lindeloefs face and then proceeds to cover his eyes so he has no chance whatsoever to actually see the ball before challenging it. It's somewhat absurd that it's reached a point where "fans" ignore clear freekicks because the agenda is to use it against various players. Mental.

 

[Jeppers7]

Great.
Meanwhile, in the real world, it's a freekick. Diagne plants his hand in Lindeloefs face and then proceeds to cover his eyes so he has no chance whatsoever to actually see the ball before challenging it. It's somewhat absurd that it's reached a point where "fans" ignore clear freekicks because the agenda is to use it against various players. Mental.

Yep.....that Lindelof is bang average doesn’t make it any less of a foul.

 

[UncleBob]

Yep.....that Lindelof is bang average doesn’t make it any less of a foul.

Exactly

 

[Kostov]

Great.
Meanwhile, in the real world, it's a freekick. Diagne plants his hand in Lindeloefs face and then proceeds to cover his eyes so he has no chance whatsoever to actually see the ball before challenging it. It's somewhat absurd that it's reached a point where "fans" ignore clear freekicks because the agenda is to use it against various players. Mental.

Not sure which real world you are talking about but in the world of todays it was a goal conceded after couple of minutes played, because the ref though it was not a foul, so did the VAR room probably, and probably many of our players, since nobody complained. The absurd thing is how we've become this fan base where we fail to recognize we have many sub par players that will give you sub par performances, but it's the refs fault, it's this or that. It was a baffling piece of defending, and as @roonster09 pointed out a combination, of mainly Lindelof imo but neither did DDG since he also knows how weak Lindelof is.

The biggest mistake imo was not starting Henderson since DDG deserved to be benched, but even if that happened, I feel Lindelof would have cost us a goal against Diagne.

 

[UncleBob]

Not sure which real world you are talking about but in the world of todays it was a goal conceded after couple of minutes played, because the ref though it was not a foul, so did the VAR room probably, and probably many of our players, since nobody complained. The absurd thing is how we've become this fan base where we fail to recognize we have many sub par players that will give you sub par performances, but it's the refs fault, it's this or that. It was a baffling piece of defending, and as @roonster09 pointed out a combination, of mainly Lindelof imo but neither did DDG since he also knows how weak Lindelof is.

The biggest mistake imo was not starting Henderson since DDG deserved to be benched, but even if that happened, I feel Lindelof would have cost us a goal against Diagne.

Ref had no view of the situation, same with the majority of the players. The only one that knew what was happening was Lindelof, Diagne and VAR.

Your lack of common sense is worrying.

 

[Idxomer]

You know it was an easy cross to catch because even De Gea thought about coming out to collect it.

 

[11101]

Whether on this occasion it was a foul (it was) or De Gea should have claimed (he should not), frailty in the back line has always been a theme with De Gea. If SAF was still here he would have been replaced long ago. He would not tolerate a goalkeeper who kept making the same mistakes over and over.

 

[Sylar]

He was not fouled, and stop making excuses, we are not fecking Arsenal. Using what Souness said really means nothing.

Yes DDG should come out more and claim crosses, but he is not that kind of keeper and never will be, however we can be competitive with that kind of GK, with a CB like LIndelof, we will probably fight for a top 4 at best.

A foul isn't an excuse, it's a mistake by the referee. You're in a small minority who thinks it wasn't a foul. But again, this is the ddg thread, go to the lindelof thread if you want to discuss his short comings (which you will see I've done as have many others)

The point is this is the ddg thread. Let's discuss his short comings. He got away with not coming for crosses previously because he could still save point blank shots. With no longer being able to do that you look at fundamentals which will help the defence and he's not doing that.

You for some reason are making excuses for ddg in the ddg thread. Foul or not, if ddg isn't weak and is a brave goalkeeper he can come and collect the ball and we don't go 1-0 down after a minute.

Ddg is costing us more than he's saving us and ole needs to make a decision (and realise ddg is gonna cost him and the team more than help)

 

[Desert Eagle]

Obvious foul and var should have overturned it. Tough for the ref to catch it in real time.

 

[RUCK4444]

Ofcourse it's a fecking foul.

Blatant foul, I said at the time that I cannot believe VAR did not review that. Just makes a mockery of VAR, look at that second picture and tell me why on earth they thought it wasn't worth looking at

That's a foul in feckin Rugby never mind footie.

 

[Anustart89]

Blatant foul, I said at the time that I cannot believe VAR did not review that. Just makes a mockery of VAR, look at that second picture and tell me why on earth they thought it wasn't worth looking at

That's a foul in feckin Rugby never mind footie.

We should put a guy on corners who just places his hands over the goalkeeper's eyes (just needs to make sure he's not offside). Easy goals if Maguire can direct his headers on target.

 

[Kerry Donaghy]

A Manchester United CB is not expected to win every header? Yeah that is perfectly fine, even Vidic lost some headers. But that was a header a Manchester United CB must win with a player on his back, or it is a goal, don't tell me a Manchester United CB expects to be saved by his goalkeeper since he can't handle your average PL striker.

As I said, it depends on where the cross is, when it's that close to the goal then it's just common sense that the keeper comes for it so yes, in that instance why on earth shouldn't the goalkeeper be helping out his centre-backs? Most other keepers do it, it's only our clueless coaching staff that think it's ok for a goalkeeper not to do it.

The whole point in being a goalkeeper is that you can use your hands and it's therefore a massive reach advantage for claiming crosses but we're paying a guy the highest wages in the league to not even bother using this advantage, he may as well not even be there when a cross comes in.
When a player hits a cross that's too close to the keeper, it's generally considered to be a poor cross because of this advantage the keepers have.
Whereas against us, a cross that's too close to the keeper suddenly becomes a massive goalscoring opportunity because De Gea is just froze every time.
On top of that, as many have said here, the keeper also has the advantage of most likely getting a free-kick as well even if it does go wrong.

The fact that some of us are even having to explain this basic element of goalkeeping just highlights how ridiculous this situation is.

 

[Kerry Donaghy]

Anyone claiming he has 0 blame obviously never played as a keeper before. His positioning was horrible. He should have been near the edge of his 6 as the player was going to cross it and then should have easily punched or caught that floater. To most they will look at it and say De Gea had no chance. For those of us who know the position we also know that the 6 yard box is the keepers area. You can't depend on your defenders to win 100% of the balls and a header won by the opposition from that close and on target will likely end as a goal. So you have to martial your six yard box. So no, it won't go don't as a "De Gea mistake" but he definitely could have and should have prevented it...Henderson would have...

Agree 100% and have been saying this for ten years, it's infuriating.

This, for me is a massive factor as to why he's been so overrated throughout the years.
That goal yesterday as a perfect example, for most other keepers it's a standard catch or punch, zero drama and barely even gets noticed.

Whereas against De Gea, it's basically a 50/50 chance of a goal, then if they score then people blame the centre backs and say De Gea had no chance from that range.

Or, he may actually save the header/shot (which from that close a range in you are relying on luck a lot) and every one makes it out as if it was the greatest save ever.
These saves get described as saved that 'no other keeper could have made', thats actually probably true because no other keeper would have to save an effort from that close in because they would have simply collected the cross without any fuss.
It's basically the equivalent of a fireman getting paid as the highest paid fireman in the country for going around putting out fires that he himself has started.

As I said, infuriating and baffling how he has got away with it for so long.

 

[Kostov]

As I said, it depends on where the cross is, when it's that close to the goal then it's just common sense that the keeper comes for it so yes, in that instance why on earth shouldn't the goalkeeper be helping out his centre-backs? Most other keepers do it, it's only our clueless coaching staff that think it's ok for a goalkeeper not to do it.

The whole point in being a goalkeeper is that you can use your hands and it's therefore a massive reach advantage for claiming crosses but we're paying a guy the highest wages in the league to not even bother using this advantage, he may as well not even be there when a cross comes in.
When a player hits a cross that's too close to the keeper, it's generally considered to be a poor cross because of this advantage the keepers have.
Whereas against us, a cross that's too close to the keeper suddenly becomes a massive goalscoring opportunity because De Gea is just froze every time.
On top of that, as many have said here, the keeper also has the advantage of most likely getting a free-kick as well even if it does go wrong.

The fact that some of us are even having to explain this basic element of goalkeeping just highlights how ridiculous this situation is.

The cross came from in front of the box, and it was whipped with a very good curve, the CB was right in front of DDG and obviously made the wrong decision instead of going and attacking the cross he tried to hold off the striker and failed. As I said before DDG should not have started just because I feel Henderson deserves a run of games and DDG has been poor in the previous one. However I am not sure that Henderson would have came out and dealt with that ball, since imo a GK shouldn't rush out and maybe cause a collision when a CB is so near and in good position to clear a cross.
Maybe I am being too used to DDG staying on his line, but I struggle to see how in this situation the most part of the blame should be on anyone but Lindelof.

 

[Havak]

Dave is a problem unfortunately.

I have tried to defend him since he's been an amazing goalkeeper for us, but it really is time for him to come under serious scrutiny.

One of the worst save percentages in the league and he's faced less shots than the vast majority of other goalkeepers to play this season. He has only claimed two high balls all season, which is pathetic. He has average distribution on top of this and other teams know they can put him under big pressure at set pieces.

In his defence, he has played the majority of his games with Vidic, Smalling or Maguire in front of him. This probably made him believe he can simply rely on his defenders to head balls away as they were all strong in the air. We've also nearly always had a tall midfield player in the line-up to supplement this (Fellaini, Matic, McTominay, Pogba).

However, now that our CBs don't have pace, this is affecting us badly in two ways. They don't trust themselves to chase back when playing a higher line and they don't trust de Gea to come out and take the ball either. It forces us to play deep and invite pressure. We have to solve at least one or the other, but ideally both. Playing Henderson and Bailly is debatable, but worth trying. We should do it against Real Sociedad.

Defenders not trusting the goalkeeper is a huge problem and I can't see it changing. Odd for me to be saying this after I thought he had a good game against WBA, but I think he could have done better for the first goal.

If you're going to be a goalkeeper at a top side, you need to be able to do nothing for 90% of a game then do your job properly when the moment comes. He isn't doing it.

 

[largelyworried]

The cross came from in front of the box, and it was whipped with a very good curve, the CB was right in front of DDG and obviously made the wrong decision instead of going and attacking the cross he tried to hold off the striker and failed. As I said before DDG should not have started just because I feel Henderson deserves a run of games and DDG has been poor in the previous one. However I am not sure that Henderson would have came out and dealt with that ball, since imo a GK shouldn't rush out and maybe cause a collision when a CB is so near and in good position to clear a cross.
Maybe I am being too used to DDG staying on his line, but I struggle to see how in this situation the most part of the blame should be on anyone but Lindelof.

I go the other way, in my view a keeper should always be going for a ball when its on. If a striker is contesting a defender, then the height difference is unlikely to be much more than 6 inches. Instead what determines the outcome of the duel are a bunch of factors, like having a running vs a standing jump, or your running angle, or even your body weight. No matter how much you fancy your defender in a situation, you can never be totally confident in a duel becasue its so difficult to assess these factors as the ball comes. But a goalkeeper has about a two foot height/reach advantage over a defender, even if he isn't that tall. That trumps just about anything else a striker can do. A quick dart or a clever angle can't add two foot to your jump. All things being equal, a striker will never beat a goalkeeper in the air.

The other thing is, when a defender heads the ball out under pressure, there’s every chance that his team will remain under pressure. If he heads it out for a corner or throw in, or he can only head it to an opponent, then play goes on. Of course if a goalkeeper can only punch it, then the same still applies (albeit a good punch seems to go further than a good header). But if he can collect the ball with both hands then the opposition attack is done. No next phase, no corner kick to deal with, nothing. So not only is the first ball safer when dealt with by a goalkeeper, it reduces the chance of any follow up attacks too.

Having looked again at the goal, I think its generous to suggest its a whipped cross. It gets plenty of height, only curves gently, and the striker makes contact 6 yards out. As it comes down its a lot more vertical than most crosses. There’s no-one stood in the space where De Gea would be getting the ball (a goalkeeper intercepts a ball at a slightly earlier point in its trajectory). In fact if you look carefully, he's already off his line when the ball is played, he doesn't have far to travel at all, maybe 4 yards. To my mind, that's simple stuff for a goal keeper. While Lindelof should have attacked the ball much more aggressively, De Gea should made it all a non-issue by collecting the ball.

 

[Kostov]

I go the other way, in my view a keeper should always be going for a ball when its on. If a striker is contesting a defender, then the height difference is unlikely to be much more than 6 inches. Instead what determines the outcome of the duel are a bunch of factors, like having a running vs a standing jump, or your running angle, or even your body weight. No matter how much you fancy your defender in a situation, you can never be totally confident in a duel becasue its so difficult to assess these factors as the ball comes. But a goalkeeper has about a two foot height/reach advantage over a defender, even if he isn't that tall. That trumps just about anything else a striker can do. A quick dart or a clever angle can't add two foot to your jump. All things being equal, a striker will never beat a goalkeeper in the air.

Yes what you are saying is perfectly fine, but what is the point of CBs when they can't win their simple duels and clear out a cross that by many on here was very slow and predictable and the CB had advantage being in front of the striker from where the ball was coming? I really don't see the reason for the GK coming out of his line to collect a ball when the CB is a meter away in front of him, anticipating the danger.

The other thing is, when a defender heads the ball out under pressure, there’s every chance that his team will remain under pressure. If he heads it out for a corner or throw in, or he can only head it to an opponent, then play goes on. Of course if a goalkeeper can only punch it, then the same still applies (albeit a good punch seems to go further than a good header). But if he can collect the ball with both hands then the opposition attack is done. No next phase, no corner kick to deal with, nothing. So not only is the first ball safer when dealt with by a goalkeeper, it reduces the chance of any follow up attacks too.

This is also very spot on and especially regarding Lindelof, he often clears the ball so poorly and still leaves the team in danger, yes the GK coming and collecting would be safer but GK more often leave it to the defenders in front of them to clear it rather then getting to every ball themselves.

Having looked again at the goal, I think its generous to suggest its a whipped cross. It gets plenty of height, only curves gently, and the striker makes contact 6 yards out. As it comes down its a lot more vertical than most crosses. There’s no-one stood in the space where De Gea would be getting the ball (a goalkeeper intercepts a ball at a slightly earlier point in its trajectory). In fact if you look carefully, he's already off his line when the ball is played, he doesn't have far to travel at all, maybe 4 yards. To my mind, that's simple stuff for a goal keeper. While Lindelof should have attacked the ball much more aggressively, De Gea should made it all a non-issue by collecting the ball.

Well many of you love to overanalyze everything and anything, and yeah I agree DDG maybe should have made it a not issue by coming out of his line and collecting it, just like maybe Fred should have been closer to Gallagher and prevented the cross even happening, but one thing is for sure and clear, a Manchester United CB must not let Diagne score that goal on him in the 3 minute of the match.

 

[largelyworried]

Yes what you are saying is perfectly fine, but what is the point of CBs when they can't win their simple duels and clear out a cross that by many on here was very slow and predictable and the CB had advantage being in front of the striker from where the ball was coming? I really don't see the reason for the GK coming out of his line to collect a ball when the CB is a meter away in front of him, anticipating the danger.

Its the same reason a defender should block a shot, even if he thinks his keeper might save it. Why take a risk? If you can do something simple that totally eliminates the threat, why would you not?

 

[SadlerMUFC]

The cross came from in front of the box, and it was whipped with a very good curve, the CB was right in front of DDG and obviously made the wrong decision instead of going and attacking the cross he tried to hold off the striker and failed. As I said before DDG should not have started just because I feel Henderson deserves a run of games and DDG has been poor in the previous one. However I am not sure that Henderson would have came out and dealt with that ball, since imo a GK shouldn't rush out and maybe cause a collision when a CB is so near and in good position to clear a cross.
Maybe I am being too used to DDG staying on his line, but I struggle to see how in this situation the most part of the blame should be on anyone but Lindelof.

The ball wasn't whipped. It was a bit of a floater with curve. Either way, De Gea shouldn't even have been on his goal line at the time. He should have been closer to his 6 when the ball was kicked. If his positioning was correct (which it so often isn't) it would have been a routine punch/catch. Lindelof should have done better, but as a keeper you can't expect your defender to win every header that is that close to your goal. The West Brom player has to get some credit for working very hard to win that header, but it shouldn't have been there to be won in the first place. A keeper who knows how to do the basics of his position wins that easily. De Gea is a human highlight reel, as we saw with that double save in the second half (which would have been called back for a foul if he didn't save), but he still hasn't mastered the basics of the game, which is concerning. At his age he should be in his prime but because he isn't brilliant at the basics, he is regressing...

 

[TheRedDevil2019]

With this backline, we need a commanding, vocal goalkeeper. DDG sadly is not. If we had a keeper of a similar kind of mold to P. Schmeichel aka someone that barks at the defenders when he sees things they have not, it could help organize and prevent a sizeable chunk of goals we concede.

I'm not sure Henderson is that guy, but I'm convinced a fiesty, commanding type would help shore up the backline alongside a top CB as Baily is probably our best CB but is never fit.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

The 6 yard box is the keepers area to patrol. Sure, there's going to be times when he can't, but he needs to do his best whenever he can.

There are only 2 players in the league who have won more aerial battles than Maguire, however as good as he is for winning 100 aerial battles, he has also lost 32. So that's basically a 75% win percentage, which is pretty damn good.

So let's move that 3 out of 4 aerial battles won to the 6 yard box. For that one that he loses, if the attacker gets their header on goal, what are the chances the keeper is going to save it? Fairly slim unless it's right at him.

So the keeper needs to be proactive to prevent this. There have been way too many times this year where our opponent has scored from this area. In fact, they target it because everyone knows that De Gea might as well be Dracula (get it? he hates crosses? Ba-dum-pshh). And it keeps costing us.

Many will be very quick to point out our centre back pairing and blame them. But like I've already showed, if Harry Maguire is one of the best headers of the ball and is still only 75% win percentage, then you obviously need help from your keeper in these tight areas.

De Gea has been great over the years, but he hasn't won us a game in ages. It's time for him to step aside and give Henderson a run. As we saw in the West Ham game, Henderson isn't shy about coming to collect crosses...

Harry Maguire Statistics | Premier League

 

[bsCallout]

He was not fouled, and stop making excuses, we are not fecking Arsenal. Using what Souness said really means nothing.

Yes DDG should come out more and claim crosses, but he is not that kind of keeper and never will be, however we can be competitive with that kind of GK, with a CB like LIndelof, we will probably fight for a top 4 at best.

You're definitely trolling if you think that isn't a foul.

It doesn't excuse Lindelof or DDG.

But that foul is clear as day.

 

[DoomSlayer]

The goal was clear foul, ref was pathetic as usual when it comes to soft fouls for small teams.

Saying that, any coach would drop De Gea. Foul or not, he should be catching that cross. He is too passive and he will be the big reason why Ole will be sacked,

I feel pretty much the same way. Lindelof should have been smart and faked an injury so VAR would properly check it, but De Gea is at fault for being "an absolute fanny", as @golden_blunder likes to say.