David de Gea | 2011-14 Performances

[Sassy Colin]

Which tosser wrote that article then, what a twat.

I guess they are just trying to unsettle him to try to help prevent us winning the league.

What utter dross.

 

[MrMojo]

You may only remember one cross but we conceded 25 shots, 8 of which were on target. So your memory is quite selective.

Who is criticising anyone? I'm happy with a point away against Spurs. I'm just saying that to isolate De Gea after that game is nonsense.

I'm referring to Hansen and the idea that it would balance things up if he criticised even more of our players. The point being that it would be pretty absurd of him to scrutinise a defence for allowing one cross when they'd restricted Spurs to only two all game.

I'm not sure what the defence could have done to prevent the shots and the relevance escapes me as well.

 

[moses]

I'm referring to Hansen and the idea that it would balance things up if he criticised even more of our players. The point being that it would be pretty absurd of him to scrutinise a defence for allowing one cross when they'd restricted Spurs to only two all game.

I'm not sure what the defence could have done to prevent the shots and the relevance escapes me as well.

So defence gets credit for not allowing crosses but you fail to see how they might have done the same for the 8 shots on target and the 17 shots off target? Seriously? You think good defending is limiting crosses while allowing shots on goal as there is nothing that can be done? What?

Hansen didn't put the performance in context, and neither are you if the only stat you think relevant to assessing a defence and goalkeeper is crosses.

 

[Heardy]

I thought De Gea had a decent game and was desperately unlucky not to keep a clean sheet.

That said, Spurs had us pinned back for a lot of the second half and you'd have felt that would have been a huge 3 points considering the pressure they put us under.

The only criticism I have of De Gea is his inclination to parry shots, sometimes into the path of the opposition. He's improved since he has been with us, and I fully expect him to do so. The fact that neither De Gea and Lindegaard are out and out favourites on the team sheet, will keep them both sharp in my opinion.

I expect De Gea to ultimately be seen as number 1 (which I believe Fergie does already), and as he gets more and more experienced, he will be seen as one of the best keepers around.

 

[moses]

I thought De Gea had a decent game and was desperately unlucky not to keep a clean sheet.

That said, Spurs had us pinned back for a lot of the second half and you'd have felt that would have been a huge 3 points considering the pressure they put us under.

The only criticism I have of De Gea is his inclination to parry shots, sometimes into the path of the opposition. He's improved since he has been with us, and I fully expect him to do so. The fact that neither De Gea and Lindegaard are out and out favourites on the team sheet, will keep them both sharp in my opinion.

I expect De Gea to ultimately be seen as number 1 (which I believe Fergie does already), and as he gets more and more experienced, he will be seen as one of the best keepers around.

Now that's nearer fair. For anyone interested in what fair looks like.

 

[SteveJ]

Good post (IMO), Heardy.

 

[MrMojo]

That's clearly not the intention of that article. That's just the premise to hang a string of criticisms and the controversial opinion he, and he alone, cost us that game on.

I'm only picking on you because you were making a rather loud point of defending Hansen as fair by picking out one banal throw away positive in an article littered with negatives, and written explicitly to have a pop at him.

Then pundits can't win, if they compliment it's just conciliatory, a premise, or a throw away positive.

The other incorrect assumption is that because Hansen didn't do a kick by kick breakdown of the goal, pointing out every fault along the way, that he blames just De Gea. He has a couple of mins on MoTD and a short article, I think you're expecting too much detail.

 

[moses]

Then pundits can't win, if they compliment it's just conciliatory, a premise, or a throw away positive.

The other incorrect assumption is that because Hansen didn't do a kick by kick breakdown of the goal, pointing out every fault along the way, that he blames just De Gea. He has a couple of mins on MoTD and a short article, I think you're expecting too much detail.

You could sum it up fairly in a sentence, but only if you wanted to

 

[MrMojo]

So defence gets credit for not allowing crosses but you fail to see how they might have done the same for the 8 shots on target and the 17 shots off target? Seriously? You think good defending is limiting crosses while allowing shots on goal as there is nothing that can be done? What?

Hansen didn't put the performance in context, and neither are you if the only stat you think relevant to assessing a defence and goalkeeper is crosses.

If the article was about United conceding too many shots then he might bring the defence into it. To start bringing shots conceded and the role of the defence into this would make the article a sprawling mess.

Hansen thought it was a very good performance from the defence as do I. The shots on goal were more about conceding possession and territory than anything. Hansen provided all the context he could, even if you disagree with his opinion.

 

[SteveJ]

He has a couple of mins on MoTD and a short article, I think you're expecting too much detail.

On the contrary, I was naively expecting journalism of a professional standard, written by an expert on all matters football. Instead, I read a passive-aggressive first-draft piece consisting of received "wisdom" grounded in the old-fashioned notions of foreign players' faults. In short, the views of a typical BBC Sports employee, not to mention the limited perspective of a defender who last played professionally around two decades ago. Forty-thousand pounds per episode of MotD; forty grand for the weekly equivalent of an armchair viewer repeatedly stating "Well that's just diabolical defending there..." In my innocence, I expected better.

 

[moses]

If the article was about United conceding too many shots then he might bring the defence into it. To start bringing shots conceded and the role of the defence into this would make the article a sprawling mess.

Hansen thought it was a very good performance from the defence as do I. The shots on goal were more about conceding possession and territory than anything. Hansen provided all the context he could, even if you disagree with his opinion.

To say that we were pinned back for long periods and conceded 25 shots would make the article about the keeper being without doubt to blame for the loss of 2 points a sprawling mess? One sentence would transform that article to a sprawling mess. I'm no genius, but I could've handled a slightly broader perspective.

 

[SteveJ]

The whole thing has been ramped up to ridiculous proportions. We're not talking about David James-style errors here, and it's no coincidence that, apparently, some United fans' opinions stem as much from the media as they do from genuine concerns. De Gea makes some unbelievable saves, often at point-blank range or in one-on-one situations; his kicking when under pressure is near-faultless & reminiscent of a far older goalkeeper; his mentality is generally excellent (even at the cauldron which is Anfield); yet it seems that some expect utter perfection in every game.

 

[MrMojo]

On the contrary, I was naively expecting journalism of a professional standard, written by an expert on all matters football. Instead, I read a passive-aggressive first-draft piece consisting of received "wisdom" grounded in the old-fashioned notions of foreign players' faults. In short, the views of a typical BBC Sports employee, not to mention the limited perspective of a defender who last played professionally around two decades ago. Forty-thousand pounds per episode of MotD; forty grand for the weekly equivalent of an armchair viewer repeatedly stating "Well that's just diabolical defending there..." In my innocence, I expected better.

Deary me, so Hansen is now passive aggressive and has a touch of xenophobia. He had two minutes of analysis on MOTD, half of it was spent complimenting. If you want something more detailed go see Gary Neville, though on this incident if you find Hansen offensive you best strap yourself in for Gazza.

To say that we were pinned back for long periods and conceded 25 shots would make the article about the keeper being without doubt to blame for the loss of 2 points a sprawling mess? One sentence would transform that article to a sprawling mess. I'm no genius, but I could've handled a slightly broader perspective.

To then start questioning the defence for that as well, giving explanations etc. Not to mention that you're actually wrong to blame the defenders for conceding 8 shots on target(not sure how few you were expecting away at Spurs).

I just think you're expecting too much analysis for that form of media.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

I thought De Gea had a decent game and was desperately unlucky not to keep a clean sheet.

That said, Spurs had us pinned back for a lot of the second half and you'd have felt that would have been a huge 3 points considering the pressure they put us under.

The only criticism I have of De Gea is his inclination to parry shots, sometimes into the path of the opposition. He's improved since he has been with us, and I fully expect him to do so. The fact that neither De Gea and Lindegaard are out and out favourites on the team sheet, will keep them both sharp in my opinion.

I expect De Gea to ultimately be seen as number 1 (which I believe Fergie does already), and as he gets more and more experienced, he will be seen as one of the best keepers around.

I agree, though I do feel that De Gea is ahead in the pecking order, and definitely better than Lindegaard (who is great as a backup keeper by the way). It may not be unanimous, but I'm always disappointed when De Gea isn't on the team sheet.

 

[moses]

To then start questioning the defence for that as well, giving explanations etc. Not to mention that you're actually wrong to blame the defenders for conceding 8 shots on target(not sure how few you were expecting away at Spurs).

I just think you're expecting too much analysis for that form of media.

So like I already said, you credit rightfully credit our defence for limiting crosses but say that shots on goal are not to be judged the same way? Which is nonsense.

This is not a criticism of the defence but just to put the comment that De Gea cost us the points in context. Hansen and you are selectively using stats, which is tedious.

In his defence, he gets paid for writing an article designed to cause a stir, and a balanced view doesn't suit his goal. Hansens's article wasn't lacking depth of analysis quite so much as ignoring the stats that took away from the thrust of his article. What's your excuse?

 

[SteveJ]

Deary me, so Hansen is now passive aggressive and has a touch of xenophobia.

Is that so unlikely? After all, we're discussing the mindset of someone from what could now be considered a bygone era. You only have to look at his former club for unreconstructed views on controversial matters...

Also, MotD pundits are, if anything, renowned for their utter lack of research and their decline into a "comfort zone"; just watch Shearer as a pundit at any major tournament the BBC covers: when asked about a non-UK player, his response is likely to be "Well I've never heard of him..." These people are lucky that their bosses have even less knowledge of professional football; if this weren't the case, Shearer, Hansen & co would have to make a living in the game.

Oh, and Neville tries too hard to refute his pro-United public profile by being unbiased to an almost farcical degree. Thanks for that, Gaz. Keane too - for once able to tolerate idiots as co-workers - does a similar routine just for the fee. Nothing wrong with "United diehards" making a living, but don't be surprised by the compromises this sometimes entails.

 

[Spoony]

What's wrong with 'pace, power and determination.'? Quality analysis IMVHO. I love it when Shearer points out the obvious,'well, look he's running with the ball and then passes it a few yards'. Who said the art of football punditry was dead?

 

[Shark]

I was critical of his punch, but for the people actually blaming him for dropping the points, they need to have a word with themselves. We would have been lucky to get away with a 3-1 scoreline if it wasn't for his magnificent saves.

 

[Heardy]

I agree, though I do feel that De Gea is ahead in the pecking order, and definitely better than Lindegaard (who is great as a backup keeper by the way). It may not be unanimous, but I'm always disappointed when De Gea isn't on the team sheet.

Yeah I also think that De Gea is ahead in the pecking order, but Lindegaard is a decent 2nd keeper that will continue to challenge for De Gea's spot should he hit a prolonged period of poor form.

If you had one strong keeper and one quite obviously far behind second keeper, the manager will tend to keep faith in the No.1. Equally if De Gea gets too settled and is not putting the effort in in training, you know Fergie would comfortably drop him for Anders.

De Gea gets too much stick by the press and the contrast between him and Hart is quite ridiculous in terms of being given a fair run of the green.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Yeah I also think that De Gea is ahead in the pecking order, but Lindegaard is a decent 2nd keeper that will continue to challenge for De Gea's spot should he hit a prolonged period of poor form.

If you had one strong keeper and one quite obviously far behind second keeper, the manager will tend to keep faith in the No.1. Equally if De Gea gets too settled and is not putting the effort in in training, you know Fergie would comfortably drop him for Anders.

Agreed. It's not like in the days when we had Edwin and then PIG or Foster, where the gap seemed huge. Lindegaard is great as backup, whereas back in the day, whenever Van der Sar got injured or whatever, I felt really uncomfortable. We're in a pretty good position concerning keepers at the moment I feel.

 

[Solius]

If it wasn't for him we'd have lost yesterday.

 

[Platato]

Is there no gif of the goal? Think Vidic got in de Gea's way a bit which seems to happen occasionally.

 

[Ruud10]

I agree, though I do feel that De Gea is ahead in the pecking order, and definitely better than Lindegaard (who is great as a backup keeper by the way). It may not be unanimous, but I'm always disappointed when De Gea isn't on the team sheet.

No doubt about it, RIP.

It's a bit ridiculous to suggest that De Gea is not an out and out favorite (of the manager, a least) or this has place in the starting XI is somehow in grave doubt.

 

[Platato]

Out of interest - how old was Schmeichel when you got him? And did he have no weaknesses when you got him?

For me De Gea is a top keeper, especially when you consider his tender age. His reflexes are fantastic.

We have a hard time appreciating what some of our players bring to the table.

 

[MrMojo]

Is that so unlikely? After all, we're discussing the mindset of someone from what could now be considered a bygone era. You only have to look at his former club for unreconstructed views on controversial matters...

Also, MotD pundits are, if anything, renowned for their utter lack of research and their decline into a "comfort zone"; just watch Shearer as a pundit at any major tournament the BBC covers: when asked about a non-UK player, his response is likely to be "Well I've never heard of him..." These people are lucky that their bosses have even less knowledge of professional football; if this weren't the case, Shearer, Hansen & co would have to make a living in the game.

Oh, and Neville tries too hard to refute his pro-United public profile by being unbiased to an almost farcical degree. Thanks for that, Gaz. Keane too - for once able to tolerate idiots as co-workers - does a similar routine just for the fee. Nothing wrong with "United diehards" making a living, but don't be surprised by the compromises this sometimes entails.

You're the one making the claim Steve, it's upto you to back it up. I'm glad you've said it though, it just further confirms my opinion. Hansen has pre conceived ideas about foreigners, Neville is just distancing himself from Unted etc etc, the paranoia goes on.

To use what's happening at Liverpool now as some kind of logic to explain Hansens opinion is just totally random.

If Hansen is passive aggressive for suggesting we drop De Gea, what does that make the manager who actually does just that?

So like I already said, you credit rightfully credit our defence for limiting crosses but say that shots on goal are not to be judged the same way? Which is nonsense.

This is not a criticism of the defence but just to put the comment that De Gea cost us the points in context. Hansen and you are selectively using stats, which is tedious.

.In his defence, he gets paid for writing an article designed to cause a stir, and a balanced view doesn't suit his goal. Hansens's article wasn't lacking depth of analysis quite so much as ignoring the stats that took away from the thrust of his article. What's your excuse?

I have no problem attaching a bit of individual blame, I think it's quite healthy. I actually dislike the whole 'it's everybody's fault' viewpoint. I feel in decent company as the manager clearly has no problem doing this either.

With any goal you could blame various factors but if there's an obvious mistake then there's nothing wrong with pointing that out. It was his fault, this doesn't mean I want him strung up and perhaps quartered. He's young, he's bound to make mistakes, it's happened and let's move on and see what happens from here.

 

[SteveJ]

I don't think it's particularly controversial or irrelevant to link the supposed opinions of two people of similar backgrounds, who shared a changing room, at the same club during the same era, MM.

Besides, if you look at the readers' comments beneath that Telegraph article, even opposition fans are criticising Hansen for his piece.

 

[MrMojo]

I don't think it's particularly controversial or irrelevant to link the supposed opinions of two people of similar backgrounds, who shared a changing room, at the same club during the same era, MM.

Who are you talking about sorry, Hansen and who?

 

[SteveJ]

Sorry, I should've made it clear: Hansen & Dalglish.

 

[Chabon]

Is there no gif of the goal? Think Vidic got in de Gea's way a bit which seems to happen occasionally.

I'm actually a little bemused by the notion he made a mistake. Certainly Hansen fails to say what the mistake was and just claims it "undoubtedly" exists, which is the kind of thing that would get your mocked on a web forum never mind in a newspaper. What exactly has De Gea done wrong in that situation? Is the suggestion that he willingly didn't punch the ball harder?

I immediately (and loudly) blamed Valencia for deciding not to close BAE and therefore giving him about six years to make the cross, and I'd still blame him for it on reflection, it was a terrible bit of hesitancy which cost us the game.

 

[Shimo]

If it wasn't for him we'd have lost yesterday.

No doubt he saved us a couple time but, then again that's also his job. In those instances he did well but, at the same time can say that he was poor for the goal we conceded.

The boy isn't flawless and there will be times he will be at fault (completely or partially). Even when he "matures", it will happen as it happens to all footballers - making mistakes that is regardless of when in their career. Hopefully most supporters will accept this will happen with De Gea but, realize that he is already a top keeper with the potential to become one of the best around.

 

[SteveJ]

Again, why was Spurs' most dangerous player left totally unmarked?

 

[MrMojo]

Sorry, I should've made it clear: Hansen & Dalglish.

I'm not going to pretend that the logic is now any clearer. Are you saying that Hansen has 'they don't like it up 'em' style views on foreigners and the evidence for this is a similar mindset from Dalglish?

 

[SteveJ]

I'm not going to pretend that the logic is now any clearer. Are you saying that Hansen has 'they don't like it up 'em' style views on foreigners and the evidence for this is a similar mindset from Dalglish?

I'm not actually accusing them of racism; my point really encompasses only one thing:

They both have old-fashioned views on football and other matters - for example, Hansen had to publicly apologise last year for describing black players as 'coloured', & Dalglish's ill-advised championing of Luis Suarez.

 

[Chabon]

In those instances he did well but, at the same time can say that he was poor for the goal we conceded.

How was he poor for the goal we conceded?

 

[FCBarca]

Can't blame the Spaniard on that one, if anyone is to blame should be the Frenchman who left his man completely unmarked to provide the assist with plenty of time to pick out the American

 

[MrMojo]

I'm not actually accusing them of racism; my point really encompasses only one thing:

They both have old-fashioned views on football and other matters - for example, Hansen had to publicly apologise last year for describing black players as 'coloured', & Dalglish's ill-advised championing of Luis Suarez.

Not sure where to begin with this, it is probably the craziest theory I've ever seen on this forum.

Does Dalglish have pre conceived notions on foreigners? Based on what?

Does Hansen being his friend and also Scottish mean he automatically has the same social opinions?

I can only put this down to what I've discussed before, De Gea induced paranoia.

 

[Chabon]

Can't blame the Spaniard on that one, if anyone is to blame should be the Frenchman who left his man completely unmarked to provide the assist with plenty of time to pick out the American

I was going to say that as well, but on reflection it must be incredibly hard not to get drawn to the ball in such a desperate situation.

 

[SteveJ]

Not sure where to begin with this, it is probably the craziest theory I've ever seen on this forum.

Does Dalglish have pre conceived notions on foreigners? Based on what?

Does Hansen being his friend and also Scottish mean he automatically has the same social opinions?

I can only put this down to what I've discussed before, De Gea induced paranoia.

Again, I don't think I'm positing anything especially controversial, let alone something from the realms of paranoia - it's not as if my theory isn't reinforced by their recent, public actions, as I mention above. And again, I'm not saying they are racists; simply that as pundits, managers and people they've been proven to display outmoded attitudes.

 

[MrMojo]

Again, I don't think I'm positing anything especially controversial, let alone something from the realms of paranoia - it's not as if my theory isn't reinforced by their recent, public actions, as I mention above. And again, I'm not saying they are racists; simply that as pundits, managers and people they've been proven to display outmoded attitudes.

I know you're not calling them racists, I just think its a crazy theory based on no evidence whatsoever.

 

[SteveJ]

I just think its a crazy theory based on no evidence whatsoever.

Fair enough.