David de Gea | 2011-14 Performances

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manusteve said:
Look, I think we agree DDG has made errors. No one is arguing against you.

But you must see the criticism that DDG gets from the media is over-the-top.

Honestly, you won't be happy until the guy is no longer a United player!
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You're way off the mark here. I'll be happy when United have a top class, reliable goalkeeper, if that's DDG then brilliant.

Orton said:
What other errors did he make that led to goals then? Go on, name them. Don't include Swansea.
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The one at Stamford Bridge where he tried to outsmart Mata and made a fool of himself, the one at Aston Villa where he was beaten right above his head, and yes, the one at Swansea. There have been some others as well which he's got away with, like passing the ball to opposing strikers when under no pressure against Braga at OT, fortunately he got away with that one. All of these have been rewritten by De Gea fanboys to be unstoppable, perfect shots which God himself couldn't have done anything about, with the media criticising him because they all hate foreigners and hate United, but on planet Earth people can see that this sort of thing isn't good enough for a Manchester United goalkeeper.
 
A guy I know gets on his back, ridiculous really. He may not be as solid as I'd like on corners but that will come with experience in the English league. I don't want to get into the whole "if it had been any other keeper" thing but honestly, Hart flaps at crosses and corners every game and we don't hear a peep.

As far as the first Newcastle goal goes, it was a reaction save, he parried the ball away from his net and it just happened to go into the feet of a Newcastle player, there isn't much he could have done about it. I recall a game against Roma in the CL where VDS parried a shot right back at the player and he blasted it back in, it happens. Fair enough, say he could have done better, but it's unfair to put the blame solely at DDG's doorstep because if our defence and midfield did its job a lot of the time, DDG wouldn't be put in these situations.

When called upon DDG largely does a good job and definitely saves us points. His confidence has definitely grown and he is looking more sterdy on crosses and corners than he used to, it's just a matter of time.
 
kietotheworld said:
You're way off the mark here. I'll be happy when United have a top class, reliable goalkeeper, if that's DDG then brilliant.



The one at Stamford Bridge where he tried to outsmart Mata and made a fool of himself, the one at Aston Villa where he was beaten right above his head, and yes, the one at Swansea. There have been some others as well which he's got away with, like passing the ball to opposing strikers when under no pressure against Braga at OT, fortunately he got away with that one. All of these have been rewritten by De Gea fanboys to be unstoppable, perfect shots which God himself couldn't have done anything about, with the media criticising him because they all hate foreigners and hate United, but on planet Earth people can see that this sort of thing isn't good enough for a Manchester United goalkeeper.
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Ridiculous post:lol:
 
kietotheworld said:
You're way off the mark here. I'll be happy when United have a top class, reliable goalkeeper, if that's DDG then brilliant.



The one at Stamford Bridge where he tried to outsmart Mata and made a fool of himself, the one at Aston Villa where he was beaten right above his head, and yes, the one at Swansea. There have been some others as well which he's got away with, like passing the ball to opposing strikers when under no pressure against Braga at OT, fortunately he got away with that one. All of these have been rewritten by De Gea fanboys to be unstoppable, perfect shots which God himself couldn't have done anything about, with the media criticising him because they all hate foreigners and hate United, but on planet Earth people can see that this sort of thing isn't good enough for a Manchester United goalkeeper.
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See, the media didn't even mention him to be at fault for them goals. The only ones they brought up was the 2 against Fulham and Newcastle. Most people agree that the free kick was brilliant, and he was unsighted on Wiemann's shot, except you seem to think he should save everything.

Conceding from a near perfect free kick on the edge of the box isn't good enough for a United keeper? Listen to yourself.

Here is some ratings de Gea got from the Chelsea game from various football sites:

espnstar
David De Gea - 8
Any doubts about why Ferguson broke the British record fee for a goalkeeper by paying £17 million for De Gea last season were certainly dispelled as the 21-year-old produced several stunning saves to prevent the Blues from running away with the game.

guardian
De Gea - 7.2 (3rd highest)

sportscampus
De Gea - 9
He single handedly kept United in the game, using his legs, feet and hands to thwart Chelsea. Possibly the man of the match

skysports
De Gea - 7
De Gea
Made infrequent unorthadox yet brilliant saves.
 
That'sHernandez said:
A guy I know gets on his back, ridiculous really. He may not be as solid as I'd like on corners but that will come with experience in the English league. I don't want to get into the whole "if it had been any other keeper" thing but honestly, Hart flaps at crosses and corners every game and we don't hear a peep.

As far as the first Newcastle goal goes, it was a reaction save, he parried the ball away from his net and it just happened to go into the feet of a Newcastle player, there isn't much he could have done about it. I recall a game against Roma in the CL where VDS parried a shot right back at the player and he blasted it back in, it happens. Fair enough, say he could have done better, but it's unfair to put the blame solely at DDG's doorstep because if our defence and midfield did its job a lot of the time, DDG wouldn't be put in these situations.

When called upon DDG largely does a good job and definitely saves us points. His confidence has definitely grown and he is looking more sterdy on crosses and corners than he used to, it's just a matter of time.
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It's true, van der Sar had a spell in 2007 where he was awful for parrying the ball to opposing forwards, he was criticised for it though, I don't think there was anyone leaping to his defence and saying he was only being criticised because he was Dutch.
 
Orton said:
See, the media didn't even mention him to be at fault for them goals. The only ones they brought up was the 2 against Fulham and Newcastle. Most people agree that the free kick was brilliant, and he was unsighted on Wiemann's shot, except you seem to think he should save everything.

Conceding from a near perfect free kick on the edge of the box isn't good enough for a United keeper? Listen to yourself.
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Yeah they did, Gary Neville as criticising him for the Chelsea goal a few minutes after it happened, pointing out that he went too early to the wrong side, meaning that any shot hit towards his own side of the goal would go in. Against Swansea the Match of the Day commentator mentioned that he could have done better, to collective outrage on here (apparently he said it to sell Newspapers), I'm not sure which media you're actually watching or reading. I don't recall whether the media were critical of him for the Wiemann shot, so I'll give you that one, bringing it down to 4 errors in 13 League appearances for United this season. Is that good enough for a United keeper?
 
To just stoke the flames here... there was a moment I was disappointed with de Gea against West Ham in the cup. I think it was 2-1 at the time (I may be wrong) and the ball squirmed to an unmarked Carlton Cole at the back post. In the end it went out for a corner but de Gea was fortunate. He pussied out big time and just wafted a leg at it when he should have been throwing himself infront of the ball.

It could have easily ricoched (sp?) into the net but thankfully went for a corner instead.
 
kietotheworld said:
It's true, van der Sar had a spell in 2007 where he was awful for parrying the ball to opposing forwards, he was criticised for it though, I don't think there was anyone leaping to his defence and saying he was only being criticised because he was Dutch.
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I don't think I've seen anyone sayign DDG is only being criticised because he's Spanish? People are leaping to DDG's defence because he's shown all the qualities required to be a Manchester United keeper but he still has people like you criticising him for some things that are simply out of his control. Most people consider VDS as arguably one of the world's best ever keepers and certainly one of United's best ever keepers and I am highlighting to you that he also had some of the problems DDG has come against and he got through it. Why isn't the same level of understanding being given to DDG?
 
kietotheworld said:
Yeah they did, Gary Neville as criticising him for the Chelsea goal a few minutes after it happened, pointing out that he went too early to the wrong side, meaning that any shot hit towards his own side of the goal would go in. Against Swansea the Match of the Day commentator mentioned that he could have done better, to collective outrage on here (apparently he said it to sell Newspapers), I'm not sure which media you're actually watching or reading. I don't recall whether the media were critical of him for the Wiemann shot, so I'll give you that one, bringing it down to 4 errors in 13 League appearances for United this season. Is that good enough for a United keeper?
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It's a common error that every keeper will make every game of the season. Some times it goes in, other times it doesn't. You've quickly forgotten last season against Chelsea when Mata took a free kick, that you wouldn't have criticised him over if he celebrated for a goal before it even hit the net, that DDG somehow managed to claw out of the top corner of the goal.

You're being absolutely absurd, I would like to hear what your definition of a "United keeper" is; we kept Kuszczak around for a long time and he would make these sorts of errors all the time and the same goes for Foster.
 
I can't believe 'keepers get criticised for things like that Weimann goal. Even if he wasn't unsighted when it's hit at that pace from such a short distance then you'll have to pull off a really brilliant reaction save, if it comes off you've saved a certain goal. It's as if people think that if the ball is within the 'keeper's reach then it's saveable, no matter what the circumstances.

If De Gea wasn't criticise for so many goals then he wouldn't be defended so staunchly, I think that's pretty clear. No-one will deny that De Gea has made more mistakes than you expect from a first-choice Manchester United 'keeper and everyone agrees on him making a mistake v Newcastle and the others, but he's criticised for every goal that isn't literally inch-perfect top corner.
 
It seems to be something every goalkeeper is doing, so maybe some clever person realised that rather than have a retarded notion that the goalkeeper gives up half of his goal and relies on the wall to do it's job he tries to cover most of the goal and if he's beaten by a moment of brilliance then so be it..
 
Drainy said:
It seems to be something every goalkeeper is doing, so maybe some clever person realised that rather than have a retarded notion that the goalkeeper gives up half of his goal and relies on the wall to do it's job he tries to cover most of the goal and if he's beaten by a moment of brilliance then so be it..
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It's not even that, he'll have made the jump to the side to get a last minute peak of the freekick before it's taken and it just happened that Mata was taking the freekick as he made the jump.
 
That'sHernandez said:
It's not even that, he'll have made the jump to the side to get a last minute peak of the freekick before it's taken and it just happened that Mata was taking the freekick as he made the jump.
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Maybe, but I think the fact that he got blamed for it is due to the retarded culture in England of taking a simplistic 'someone must be to blame' approach when things go wrong. If the goalkeeper is beat on his side it's his fault, if he;s beat of the other side its the walls fault, a better approach would be to look at what actually works better statistically. If the goalkeeper taking a step saves it 80% of the time while a goalkeeper staying to protect his half of the goal saves it 70% of the time, then taking the step is the right decision even if it doesn't work out in hindsight occasionally.

Same with the love of man to man marking- people love knowing who to blame.
 
kietotheworld said:
4 errors in 13 League appearances for United this season. Is that good enough for a United keeper?
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Well, if they are now counted as "errors", yes. Would be the same even with VDS. In the biggest game of his life big Pete made a mess of a free-kick on "his side of the wall", and it wasn't even a good FK like Mata's.

It's ridiculous what is expected of De Gea, in fairness my brother did say to me when we bought him that the biggest problem of buying someone so young is that fans and media will be ready to hound him and put him under the microscope at every opportunity.
 
Brwned said:
I can't believe 'keepers get criticised for things like that Weimann goal. Even if he wasn't unsighted when it's hit at that pace from such a short distance then you'll have to pull off a really brilliant reaction save, if it comes off you've saved a certain goal. It's as if people think that if the ball is within the 'keeper's reach then it's saveable, no matter what the circumstances.
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Aye, think David Seaman vs. Ryan Giggs, and Seaman wasn't even unsighted. No-one considers that a mistake because:

a) it was smashed into the roof of the net.
b) a respected keeper was in goal.
 
Just remember how many major errors Rafael has had that lead to important goals scored against his team in his career so far. He still has the manager's trust because he is a talent and mentally resilient enough to respond positively to it- now he's one of the best fullbacks in the league.
 
That'sHernandez said:
I don't think I've seen anyone sayign DDG is only being criticised because he's Spanish? People are leaping to DDG's defence because he's shown all the qualities required to be a Manchester United keeper but he still has people like you criticising him for some things that are simply out of his control. Most people consider VDS as arguably one of the world's best ever keepers and certainly one of United's best ever keepers and I am highlighting to you that he also had some of the problems DDG has come against and he got through it. Why isn't the same level of understanding being given to DDG?
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DDG doesn't get the same amount of slack as van der Sar because the rest of his game isn't as good. VDS proved himself as a world class goalkeeper and then he got slack, it doesn't work the other way round. If you put me in the United goal I'd make loads of mistakes in my first game, but if a world class keeper makes a load of mistakes you don't necessarily drop him for the next game, you just assume it's a bad day.

That'sHernandez said:
It's a common error that every keeper will make every game of the season. Some times it goes in, other times it doesn't. You've quickly forgotten last season against Chelsea when Mata took a free kick, that you wouldn't have criticised him over if he celebrated for a goal before it even hit the net, that DDG somehow managed to claw out of the top corner of the goal.

You're being absolutely absurd, I would like to hear what your definition of a "United keeper" is; we kept Kuszczak around for a long time and he would make these sorts of errors all the time and the same goes for Foster.
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He made a good save a year ago by gambling, it paid off - he took the same gamble this season (and made it very predictable what he was going to do) and Mata made a fool of him. I'll explain below why he shouldn't have done it.

Foster and Kuszczak obviously weren't good enough, the difference is that they were put on the bench and later sold.

Drainy said:
It seems to be something every goalkeeper is doing, so maybe some clever person realised that rather than have a retarded notion that the goalkeeper gives up half of his goal and relies on the wall to do it's job he tries to cover most of the goal and if he's beaten by a moment of brilliance then so be it..
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It's not a retarded notion at all, if the wall is guarding one side of the goal and the goalkeeper is guarding the other then the free kick has to be perfect in order to go in, he must either beat a wall or beat the goalkeeper on his own side. If the goalkeeper and wall both guard one side of the goal, it means the taker only has to get the ball on target on one side of the goal and he's got a virtually dead cert goal. Mata's free kick wasn't a moment of brilliance, it was just a decent free kick on target.
 
kietotheworld said:
DDG doesn't get the same amount of slack as van der Sar because the rest of his game isn't as good. VDS proved himself as a world class goalkeeper and then he got slack, it doesn't work the other way round. If you put me in the United goal I'd make loads of mistakes in my first game, but if a world class keeper makes a load of mistakes you don't necessarily drop him for the next game, you just assume it's a bad day.



He made a good save a year ago by gambling, it paid off - he took the same gamble this season (and made it very predictable what he was going to do) and Mata made a fool of him. I'll explain below why he shouldn't have done it.

Foster and Kuszczak obviously weren't good enough, the difference is that they were put on the bench and later sold.



It's not a retarded notion at all, if the wall is guarding one side of the goal and the goalkeeper is guarding the other then the free kick has to be perfect in order to go in, he must either beat a wall or beat the goalkeeper on his own side. If the goalkeeper and wall both guard one side of the goal, it means the taker only has to get the ball on target on one side of the goal and he's got a virtually dead cert goal. Mata's free kick wasn't a moment of brilliance, it was just a decent free kick on target.
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I'm confused, have you even seen the respective free kicks we are talking about or are you just basing your opinion off of what you have read? Because from my memory, both free kicks couldn't have been much more to perfect than they were. Mata is probably the best dead ball specialist in the league at the moment.
 
That'sHernandez said:
I'm confused, have you even seen the respective free kicks we are talking about or are you just basing your opinion off of what you have read? Because from my memory, both free kicks couldn't have been much more to perfect than they were. Mata is probably the best dead ball specialist in the league at the moment.
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The one De Gea saved was an exceptional free kick, the one he conceded wasn't if De Gea had kept goal properly.
 
kietotheworld said:
It's not a retarded notion at all, if the wall is guarding one side of the goal and the goalkeeper is guarding the other then the free kick has to be perfect in order to go in, he must either beat a wall or beat the goalkeeper on his own side. If the goalkeeper and wall both guard one side of the goal, it means the taker only has to get the ball on target on one side of the goal and he's got a virtually dead cert goal. Mata's free kick wasn't a moment of brilliance, it was just a decent free kick on target.
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Yes it is. By telling the goalkeeper to abandon one side of his goal because the wall has it covered knowing that walls make a lot of errors- whether they break, jump, duck etc just because you know who to blame you are in all probability going to concede more goals than if you allow the goalkeeper to take a step and cover 90% of the goal. The Mata freekick was literally just inside the post, it was a great hit- in hindsight you can say it was the wrong decision to take a step but hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it. Making decisions when dealing with uncertainty is all about taking risks and playing the odds.
 
Drainy said:
Yes it is. By telling the goalkeeper to abandon one side of his goal because the wall has it covered knowing that walls make a lot of errors- whether they break, jump, duck etc just because you know who to blame you are in all probability going to concede more goals than if you allow the goalkeeper to take a step and cover 90% of the goal. The Mata freekick was literally just inside the post, it was a great hit- in hindsight you can say it was the wrong decision to take a step but hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it. Making decisions when dealing with uncertainty is all about taking risks and playing the odds.
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Of course it's playing the odds, I think you've an odd interpretation of the odds though. If both sides of the goal are defended then the free kick has to be perfect to go in, perfect free kicks are by their nature very rate, if only one side is covered because the goalkeeper's abandoned his post, it only has to be decent and aimed at the correct side, which is a lot more likely.
 
kietotheworld said:
The one De Gea saved was an exceptional free kick, the one he conceded wasn't if De Gea had kept goal properly.
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It was a superb free-kick. And as I said earlier, here is the best keeper in history making an actual feck up on a poor free-kick...

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1450557626326

Keepers get beaten every week all over Europe from Mata types of free-kicks, it was a brilliant, brilliant bit of execution that would've beaten the majority of keepers, putting it down as a mistake is just silly, unless it's like the Schmeichel one above.
 
kietotheworld said:
Of course it's playing the odds, I think you've an odd interpretation of the odds though. If both sides of the goal are defended then the free kick has to be perfect to go in, perfect free kicks are by their nature very rate, if only one side is covered because the goalkeeper's abandoned his post, it only has to be decent and aimed at the correct side, which is a lot more likely.
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Um wut? so a goalkeeper taking a step means he's abandoning his side? You are aware that once he sets himself after the step he can dive the other way. You agenda posters do come out with some fecking shit.

Walls are not perfect, they do not cover all of their half of the goal even when they don't make a mistake. If they jump you are vulnerable to low shots, if they don't an accurate shot over the top without a lot of pace on it can reach the target. If there aren't gaps between the players, it covers less area so you are vulnerable to a curler around the corner, having too many people in the wall blocks the goalkeepers view and so on.

It doesn't require a perfectly struck freekick on the wall's side to score a goal, it requires accuracy- while if the goalkeeper is defending the whole goal it requires both accuracy and enough pace to beat the keeper.
 
kietotheworld said:
You're way off the mark here. I'll be happy when United have a top class, reliable goalkeeper, if that's DDG then brilliant.



The one at Stamford Bridge where he tried to outsmart Mata and made a fool of himself, the one at Aston Villa where he was beaten right above his head, and yes, the one at Swansea. There have been some others as well which he's got away with, like passing the ball to opposing strikers when under no pressure against Braga at OT, fortunately he got away with that one. All of these have been rewritten by De Gea fanboys to be unstoppable, perfect shots which God himself couldn't have done anything about, with the media criticising him because they all hate foreigners and hate United, but on planet Earth people can see that this sort of thing isn't good enough for a Manchester United goalkeeper.
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Worst post I've seen on here in about 6 months.
 
Should Krul have saved Baines free kick from the other night then?

There isn't even an argument for whether or not the media treat him differently. Hart has made substantially more costly mistakes this season yet he's been lauded as one of the best keepers in the world.
 
100 said:
Should Krul have saved Baines free kick from the other night then?

There isn't even an argument for whether or not the media treat him differently. Hart has made substantially more costly mistakes this season yet he's been lauded as one of the best keepers in the world.
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There's even been articles specifically saying not to criticise him after a game where he's made a mistake because he's the best England has. Because that makes sense.
 
kietotheworld said:
Of course it's playing the odds, I think you've an odd interpretation of the odds though. If both sides of the goal are defended then the free kick has to be perfect to go in, perfect free kicks are by their nature very rate, if only one side is covered because the goalkeeper's abandoned his post, it only has to be decent and aimed at the correct side, which is a lot more likely.
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What a load of utter pedantry. Have a word with yourself. The lad is 22 fecking years old and will continue to learn and develop for at least 10-15 more years. If now is not the time to cut him some slack to aid his development, then when is?
 
Skywarden said:
What a load of utter pedantry. Have a word with yourself. The lad is 22 fecking years old and will continue to learn and develop for at least 10-15 more years. If now is not the time to cut him some slack to aid his development, then when is?
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He'll just say he's 'giving constructive criticisms' and ask what's wrong with doing that- as if that is what he's doing.
 
To be honest, I question whether kietotheworld has ever played football, let alone played as a keeper. I played as a keeper in my youth and know all about the decisions DDG makes every game and understand why he makes them, kietotheworld doesn't seem to have a clue.

Edit: And I'm still waiting to hear what a "United Keeper" actually is because as far as I can recall we have only really had for exceptional keepers.
 
I played as a keeper a few years ago on a semi-regular basis. I understand most of the decisions he makes, I just think they're the wrong ones.

Someone good enough to be a United keeper is someone who doesn't make 4 errors in 13 League games, a reliable goalkeeper, for 14 of the last 23 years we've had that. I don't know why people are so desperate to prove to themselves that mediocrity is excellence, or that it's a great insult to point out what it is.
 
So who does kietotheworld want instead of de Gea?

Begovic? Reina?

I don't see what the guy is saying really, De Gea is United's best keeper & he's getting better, the last 2 games in the League were clean sheets after all, or doesn't that count?

There is no point keep criticising unless you put forward a viable alternative.
 


These are proper blunders. Watch over the videos, dvds etc and you will see Schmeichel make more than 4 mistakes in a season. He was a legend for the club, and he made plenty of mistakes. However he won us games too with some great saves, and de Gea is doing the same whilst not making many mistakes at all, and he's only 22. Schmeichel was 29 when he signed. We have a very promising young keeper who has lots of time on his side.
 
Orton said:


These are proper blunders. Watch over the videos, dvds etc and you will see Schmeichel make more than 4 mistakes in a season. He was a legend for the club, and he made plenty of mistakes. However he won us games too with some great saves, and de Gea is doing the same whilst not making many mistakes at all, and he's only 22. Schmeichel was 29 when he signed. We have a very promising young keeper who has lots of time on his side.
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That's what, 7 mistakes in two seasons making about 50 appearances in each of them? De Gea has 4 already this season in just 13 League appearances, it's just not comparable.

Colin129 said:
So who does kietotheworld want instead of de Gea?

Begovic? Reina?

I don't see what the guy is saying really, De Gea is United's best keeper & he's getting better, the last 2 games in the League were clean sheets after all, or doesn't that count?

There is no point keep criticising unless you put forward a viable alternative.
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I can't constructively criticise a player unless I want him replaced? Bullshit. I'd rather stick with De Gea and Lindegaard than bring in Begovic, and I don't think the Reina thing is really viable.
 
kietotheworld said:
I played as a keeper a few years ago on a semi-regular basis. I understand most of the decisions he makes, I just think they're the wrong ones.

Someone good enough to be a United keeper is someone who doesn't make 4 errors in 13 League games, a reliable goalkeeper, for 14 of the last 23 years we've had that. I don't know why people are so desperate to prove to themselves that mediocrity is excellence, or that it's a great insult to point out what it is.
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Rubbish. Absolutely rubbish and I tell you why. How many mistakes are acceptable is completely and utterly in the hands of the manager. He deemed Schmeichel to be good enough despite his mistakes and inconsistent first years. He accepted all of those rash tackles Rafael made early on, too. He constantly reminded us, and still do, of Rafael's rashness but he also backs him up 100%, regardless of amount of mistakes. Ask yourself, why? Why did he stick with a seemingly unspectacular Fletcher whole-heartedly when fans where pissing themselves mad when they saw him being picked, week after another? I can go on with Evans too...Were they good enough for United, all at a very young age?

By your definition, no. Because of arbitrary factors such as "X did Y mistakes therefore he's not good enough".
 
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