David de Gea | 2011-14 Performances

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Can't believe all the argument here.

De Gea is really young, and has made mistakes. He's also played some blinders. Therefore, surely it's a case of realising that he has the potential, but accepting that he's still developing?

If he'd only ever made mistakes, it would be fair to say he's crap. But he hasn't only made mistakes. Some great games shows that he has talent. Bad games show that he has to improve.

Surely, the worst thing you can level at him is that he might not be hundred per cent ready?
 
Very few are writing him off Livie nearly everyone can see the potential. But with a keeper its a tad bit more dangerous developing his talent than pretty much any other position on the pitch.

I do believe most (including myself) thought he would adapt far quicker than he has. And it could end of costing us big time.
 
Livvie said:
Can't believe all the argument here.

De Gea is really young, and has made mistakes. He's also played some blinders. Therefore, surely it's a case of realising that he has the potential, but accepting that he's still developing?

If he'd only ever made mistakes, it would be fair to say he's crap. But he hasn't only made mistakes. Some great games shows that he has talent. Bad games show that he has to improve.

Surely, the worst thing you can level at him is that he might not be hundred per cent ready?
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Yes Livvie, that is the sensible opinion. But there seem to be a club of people writing him off, and a bigger club claiming that he's already amazing.

Clearly we've signed Europe's most promising young keeper, but for me there are questions about whether it was the right move, at the price, for us at this point.

My other worry is that looking at other young keepers I've seen come and go, it seems to me that turning potential and natural ability into the finished product is far from guaranteed. Again, this does make me question the wisdom of spending so much on one so young.

All that said, on balance I expect that he is more likely than not to make the grade, and hopefully do so for us!
 
Livvie said:
Can't believe all the argument here.

De Gea is really young, and has made mistakes. He's also played some blinders. Therefore, surely it's a case of realising that he has the potential, but accepting that he's still developing?

If he'd only ever made mistakes, it would be fair to say he's crap. But he hasn't only made mistakes. Some great games shows that he has talent. Bad games show that he has to improve.

Surely, the worst thing you can level at him is that he might not be hundred per cent ready?
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That's what I've been saying. Some people just can't acknowledge that he has made a lot of mistakes this year though.

With all of the scrutinizing he is getting from the media and fans, and the general witchhunt surrounding him at the moment, I think it's fair to say there is a managerial decision to be made as to what to do with him.

I wonder would it would be better for his long term development to make him number 1 straight away, or to sign a stop-gap keeper for 1/2 years until he is fully developed, used to the league and can be introduced slowly without as much attention?
 
Reapersoul20 said:
That's what I've been saying. Some people just can't acknowledge that he has made a lot of mistakes this year though.

With all of the scrutinizing he is getting from the media and fans, and the general witchhunt surrounding him at the moment, I think it's fair to say there is a managerial decision to be made as to what to do with him.

I wonder would it would be better for his long term development to make him number 1 straight away, or to sign a stop-gap keeper for 1/2 years until he is fully developed, used to the league and can be introduced slowly without as much attention?
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Strange situation now with Lindegaard out for 4 weeks. I think it's a bit harsh for people to expect a young keeper to adjust to the PL so fast. We can see that VDS benefited from his time with Fulham in at least getting some exposure to the style of English football.

Hopefully this run of games will do him some good. I wouldn't mind if within this period he uses these string of games to get his confidence back up and further cement his no.1 spot as keeper.

You're right though. He has had made mistakes. There's no point excusing as it just creates another issue entirely. Think the bigger question is what you highlighted. How do we address the situation with a talented young keeper that is making mistakes due to his inexperience in this league?

It's nice to hear when some commentators acknowledge the fact that DDG will come good. I think he will but it's a matter of time really. We can only hope that these run of games help him build some confidence and actually express the talented keeper he is. Like I've said before, not being fluent in English and having to work with makeshift back 4 after makeshift back 4 must be quite the challenge.
 
The problem is, a lot of United fans expected too much when he came to the club. Go back to the start of this thread and it clearly shows that everyone bar maybe the odd few were happy with this signing and praising Fergie for snapping up a brilliant young keeper with bags of potential. It also indicates that many of the folk have seen him play maybe once or twice, and gone by other sources (youtube, interviews) to determine whether he's a great keeper or not which he clearly has the potential to become. Even at Atletico, he would make errors but that didn't change that he looked like something special in the making.

He's had a difficult time here because ever since Dzeko scored that goal in the CS, he's been hounded in the press regardless of performance. Okay the game against West Brom, the goal he let past was tame at best but after this game a string of strong performances were put together against several top teams, where our defence looked all over the place.

Now it seems that the fans are split over him because of what? They expected VDS mk. 2 to step into the goals and put in near perfect performances every week which is just never going to happen with a 20 year old goalkeeper from Spain. When he becomes accustomed to the league, gets a run of games, gets a show of faith from the clubs fans then maybe the performances will start improving again.

Now where do we go from here? No choice now but to stick with him because Lindegaard is injured but Fergie even says in his interview what many of us already know, that he was signed with an eye on the future. The price you pay for bedding in youngsters will benefit the club in the long term. Jones and Smalling are examples of that, Casillas is an example of that for a goalkeeper anyway.

Seeing comments such as "worst goalkeeper in the league, bottom 5 etc" is just borderline stupidity.
 
Buying a 20 year old keeper always meant that we were going to see errors. I don't think there have been more than we should expect.

But we have a 27 year old in Lindegaard there to supplement him, for the games that would be the most challenging for him. Not to mention Amos has blossomed nicely.

Sure, there will be a bit of unease, if someone wants to 'express' that fine. But we're not going to be rethinking our goalkeeping future so quickly. De Gea would have to be showing a lot more problems than he is.

It was definitely a risk to buy him, but you also have to look at the goalkeeper's available. There weren't any top class experienced goalkeepers available, and we had to do the best we could.
 
Sir A1ex said:
Clearly we've signed Europe's most promising young keeper, but for me there are questions about whether it was the right move, at the price, for us at this point. !
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pah, we could've signed Nedved instead of Ronaldo too. Or Totti instead of Rooney.

It's not always about here & now.
 
gooDevil said:
Buying a 20 year old keeper always meant that we were going to see errors. I don't think there have been more than we should expect.
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Exactly, I'd say Ferguson still sees the potential he bought into when he signed De Gea and he expected all that has happened in terms of "naive errors".

But we have a 27 year old in Lindegaard there to supplement him
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And this. He bought him knowing he has a strong Plan B to hold ship when it gets rough. I think Ferguson has played some great cards here.
 
Randall Flagg said:
I watch a ridiculous amount of football.

What is your point?
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That those who watch football, without needing the commentators to tell them what's going on mid-game, know that he hasn't been a (flop, flapper, reject, liability... take your pick) as those in the media have so viciously labeled him.

For newspaper fans or those who support other clubs, de Gea might as well be blind.
 
Guybrush Threepwood said:
Personally I love him, I've never seen distribution so good from a keeper and I love that.

I don't mind a few mistakes from young players, especially a new keeper in a new country. I have no doubts that he'll be a superb keeper for us sooner rather than later. The more games he plays, the better he will be.
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This.
 
The problem is, if we give him as many games as possible for him to develop we risk losing vital points.

Now we have to decide whether we want to develop one player at that risk which could cost us matches and more maybe especially when our defense is not like it used to be couple of seasons back with Vidic and Rio on top.
 
Orton said:
The problem is, a lot of United fans expected too much when he came to the club. Go back to the start of this thread and it clearly shows that everyone bar maybe the odd few were happy with this signing and praising Fergie for snapping up a brilliant young keeper with bags of potential. It also indicates that many of the folk have seen him play maybe once or twice, and gone by other sources (youtube, interviews) to determine whether he's a great keeper or not which he clearly has the potential to become. Even at Atletico, he would make errors but that didn't change that he looked like something special in the making.

He's had a difficult time here because ever since Dzeko scored that goal in the CS, he's been hounded in the press regardless of performance. Okay the game against West Brom, the goal he let past was tame at best but after this game a string of strong performances were put together against several top teams, where our defence looked all over the place.

Now it seems that the fans are split over him because of what? They expected VDS mk. 2 to step into the goals and put in near perfect performances every week which is just never going to happen with a 20 year old goalkeeper from Spain. When he becomes accustomed to the league, gets a run of games, gets a show of faith from the clubs fans then maybe the performances will start improving again.

Now where do we go from here? No choice now but to stick with him because Lindegaard is injured but Fergie even says in his interview what many of us already know, that he was signed with an eye on the future. The price you pay for bedding in youngsters will benefit the club in the long term. Jones and Smalling are examples of that, Casillas is an example of that for a goalkeeper anyway.

Seeing comments such as "worst goalkeeper in the league, bottom 5 etc" is just borderline stupidity.
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Great post.
 
Guybrush Threepwood said:
Personally I love him, I've never seen distribution so good from a keeper and I love that.

I don't mind a few mistakes from young players, especially a new keeper in a new country. I have no doubts that he'll be a superb keeper for us sooner rather than later. The more games he plays, the better he will be.
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Yes
 
Cold_Boy said:
The problem is, if we give him as many games as possible for him to develop we risk losing vital points.

Now we have to decide whether we want to develop one player at that risk which could cost us matches and more maybe especially when our defense is not like it used to be couple of seasons back with Vidic and Rio on top.
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where did we drop points because for him? IMO we rather gained points due his his good performances.
 
Cold_Boy said:
Its annoys me you are so naive.
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I'm not naive at all. I'm calling spade a spade. People keep acting like all De Gea does is make mistakes and cost us points. At one point this season he had the highest save success rate in the EPL. Yet he was still being dissed.



It's also rather annoying how everyone forgets how he saved us a point at Anfield and enured we beat Chelsea at home. To mention just two huge occasions in which he was ace for us. So much for the he costs/ will cost us vital points theory...

People just want too much for him and criticize him for nothing at times. Case in point was the Anfield FA cup game. Our defenders are the ones who crowded him in ensuring he had no room to maneuver, then proceeding to give Agger the freest of headers. I wanted to shoot the tv set when I heard Stewart Robson trying his best to blame De gea for us conceding due to our sloppy defending of the corner. The reaction to some fans I met after Kuyt's winner was even more exasperating.

De gea its true makes mistakes. But this painting him as a mistake merchant needs to freaking stop due to how inaccurate it is. All his mistakes are those made by a keeper with little experience adjusting to a new league. Nothing beyond that.

Just think back to the community shield match. He got over the top disses for making the same era Joe Hart made in the very same game. Coming for a free kick and ending up in no man's land.
 
Saf said he's on a fitness program to improve his core strength, and help him fill out.
He should come back into the team when this is achieved IMO, Amos looks fine for now.
 
I think its natural for people to rationalise goalkeepers by using the logic that for all his x number of saves he can make y number of errors. However that rarely works in practice. Al habsi and Foster make lots of saves but also errors. The best way to judge a keeper is by the errors and as they mature they become less and less.

Add to this you hear it mentioned he is young but he will come good sooner rather than later. However SAF mentioned 2 or 3 years - now in the context of a GK that is not that long but in the context of a side always challenging for titles it is.

De Gea is young and has potential but people need to realise it will be a slow process and he needs time - three years is a fair amount of time to judge him. No one knows how he will develop and improve and not all potential is fullfilled.

It takes a young foreign player about 3 seasons to really start to impress and be consistent ie nani, Ronaldo provided they stay healthy. Now we should expect the same for De gea.
 
Guybrush Threepwood said:
pah, we could've signed Nedved instead of Ronaldo too. Or Totti instead of Rooney.

It's not always about here & now.
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True, but GK is a unique position. You want to have a number one who plays unless injured, and it's clear from the amount he played that SAF was hoping De Gea could do this... a lot of fans were certainly expecting it too.

Imagine if you could only play one attacking player, and we'd given that one role consistently to Ronaldo from the start of 2003-04.
We could all see his incredible talent back then, but there's no question that he was yong and learnin, and needed easing into the team.

It would actually have made more sense to sign De Gea if VDS had had another season or two in him, so we could ease him in without the pressure.
 
De Gea needs to clatter someone soon, he should jump out with his knee or elbows first while catching the ball and take out someone.. might stop chumps like Carroll targeting him.
 
SirAF said:
De Gea needs to clatter someone soon, he should jump out with his knee or elbows first while catching the ball and take out someone.. might stop chumps like Carroll targeting him.
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Let's just send him out tooled up against John Terry. I don't think there's a jury in the country that would send him down.
 
Sir A1ex said:
True, but GK is a unique position. You want to have a number one who plays unless injured, and it's clear from the amount he played that SAF was hoping De Gea could do this... a lot of fans were certainly expecting it too.

Imagine if you could only play one attacking player, and we'd given that one role consistently to Ronaldo from the start of 2003-04.
We could all see his incredible talent back then, but there's no question that he was yong and learnin, and needed easing into the team.

It would actually have made more sense to sign De Gea if VDS had had another season or two in him, so we could ease him in without the pressure.
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But that's no doubt the reason for brining in Lindegaard. Buying De Gea AND a world class keeper would've been stark raving bonkers. As I said, it's not all about the here and now.

Oh, and Ronaldo didn't really get "eased" in at all, he played 29 league games in his first season, just 5 less than his best ever season. He was the replacement for Beckham straight off.
 
Guybrush Threepwood said:
But that's no doubt the reason for brining in Lindegaard. Buying De Gea AND a world class keeper would've been stark raving bonkers. As I said, it's not all about the here and now.

Oh, and Ronaldo didn't really get "eased" in at all, he played 29 league games in his first season, just 5 less than his best ever season. He was the replacement for Beckham straight off.
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There's shades of grey though and quite a few of them between a 'world class keeper' and Lindegard.

We could have bought a proven and experienced Premier League keeper who knew the league and would have been delighted to sign for United and provide cover/competition for De Gea. As it happens, they'd probably have ended up playing a lot and being the Nr 1 right now...

The only 'bonkers' thing to do was to buy two keepers with zero PL experience at the same time - very strange decision for a club with United's aspirations, especially this season when, as Roy Keane has said today, Ferguson will be desperate to 'put City back in their box'.

We've created a situation that reminds me of where Arsenal were for a few seasons before Szczesny established himself - no clear Nr 1 at the moment and this constant rotation after every mistake. Can United afford a couple of seasons of that during City's rise?

From what Ferguson said yesterday I'd say he's using all his experience to prepare De Gea for the game on Sunday and I hope it works...
 
He's obviously been at fault for a few of the goals we've conceded.

Nobody is saying that he isn't going to get better or that he is a waste of space. Anyone who genuinely expected him to be Van Der Sar mk 2 is a bit slow, I think everyone realises he needs a bit of time to improve. You are making up arguments that don't exist and that nobody here has even attempted to make.

All that's being said is that he has made mistakes, his nervousness spreads throughout the team, and he is being targeted by opposition. His inability to cope with the physicality of the game, and the pressure of playing for United has lead to several performances that were absolutely dire, and several performances that we would have won with a better, more experienced keeper between the sticks. These are facts, and these are the reasons why the media has been on his back and why people worry the fans will turn their back on him. There would be no worry if he hadn't made some high profile feck ups, so it's a moot point debating it.

The real issues for debate are (a) whether he would benefit more by being made a permanent fixture in goals, and being played every single game, or would it be better to keep switching him out with Lindegaard, or sign a stopgap keeper to give him a year or two to develop and (b) how long can a club of the stature and expectancy of United cope with a goalkeeper who is leaking goals and causing losses ?
 
He's made mistakes but we all knew he would. The thing that concerns me most is that the ball seems to go through him quite a lot. It's like he isn't getting set to make the save quickly enough. If in the future he turns out to be the Spanish Jim Leighton, then how long do we keep playing him because of the price tag or because he is young and learning.

Might be because I have seen us struggle with keepers in the past or because of the City threat but I think we might have put ourselves on the hook buying the lad.
 
mungy said:
Eh! There is no doubt that he and he only was at fault for some of the goals we have conceded.
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Maybe so but they're being overemphasized. With De Gea, people are more caught up in the reputation that he seems to giving off more so than the actual objectivity of the situation. Hence, why some posters put the blame solely on De Gea. I wont deny that he hasn't made mistakes, however, I think he's done more good for us than bad. Of course, on here instead of looking at his whole season, we just focus on snapshots (game to game). That really helps.
 
He'll be a very good keeper one day. Unfortunately he's young, inexperienced and his bottles gone. He's got to play tomorrow though. He's not going to gain confidence and experience by sitting in the stands watching an less experienced lad stand where he should be.
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
He's made mistakes but we all knew he would. The thing that concerns me most is that the ball seems to go through him quite a lot. It's like he isn't getting set to make the save quickly enough. If in the future he turns out to be the Spanish Jim Leighton, then how long do we keep playing him because of the price tag or because he is young and learning.

Might be because I have seen us struggle with keepers in the past or because of the City threat but I think we might have put ourselves on the hook buying the lad.
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I'm not sure how fluent DDG is with English now but the more I think about it, the more I feel that injuries have really worked against us seeing the best of him. Everyone acknowledges that we're missing Vidic, but in terms of organization, communication, and positional discipline, we've been decent at best and it shows that we are missing Vidic. Let alone the fact of all the different back 4s we've put out throughout the season.

It's like when we discuss how and when we bring youngsters onto the field. I said the other day that in order to help them build their confidence, they need to be put in, in a situation where they can come into a team that provides them the platform to play well. Then when we feel that they have reached a certain point where they can consistently handle the demands of first-team football, they might begin to get the odd start.

In De Gea's case, he hasn't been given any favors in that regard. My point is due to injuries and all this chopping and changing, it hasn't allowed for him to really get a feel of how we are as a settled unit, especially in the back 4. No one foresaw Vidic being out for the season and the injuries we've had to deal with this season. I'm just of the opinion that if we hadn't had lost Vidic and that we could have put out a more consistent back 4 like most other teams have been able to do this season, DDG would be better off and I dont think we'd be in the situation we are now. A situation where he still isn't necessarily familiar with how we operate and it shows. Otherwise, he would have built that understanding with our back 4 and despite him having a rocky start, I think most people would be seeing what a good keeper he is.

We definitely saw glimpses of it when he had that extended run. Hence, why I'm hoping with this run that he will get now, provided he does not get injured, that he will again express the potential that we know he has and have more command of his area. This isn't an excuse for his mistakes or flapping at crosses or just showing signs of pure nervousness. We know he has room for improvement, he's 21 ffs and therefore we're going to have to be patient. At the same time, these circumstances we are in dont help proceedings and arent necessarrily the best platform for him to succeed in let alone perform to the best of his capabilities at this point.

Just another big reason why I'm happy SAF is at the helm because with any other manager, we'd be in a far worse position and I wouldn't have been surprised to see De Gea being loaned out by this time.
 
Guybrush Threepwood said:
Oh, and Ronaldo didn't really get "eased" in at all, he played 29 league games in his first season, just 5 less than his best ever season. He was the replacement for Beckham straight off.
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That's a little disingenuous... he made 15 league starts, compared to at least 24 in all his other seasons, and over 30 in most of them.
He was mainly used as a sub at first, which is something you can't do with a keeper... which was kind of my point.
 
No-one really thinks Amos instead of DeGea would be the right move today, do they?
 
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