I'd rather not. Besides I'm too busy doing up invites to the next witchhunt. No point putting you down for a plus one is there? Wouldn't have thought so.
Darron Gibson - is he good enough for Everton?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
I'd rather not. Besides I'm too busy doing up invites to the next witchhunt. No point putting you down for a plus one is there? Wouldn't have thought so.
Richardson never played as much as a Fletcher, nor did he ever get a starting game in a major champion's league match for us.
He's not crap, your rating scale for footballers is way off.
Fletcher was also surrounded by a better and younger midfield. Giggs is much older, Scholes as well. You had Ronaldo out there, etc
But he was crap for us.
Yeah and it's not like every midfielder that looks average turns class at the age of 25. Fletch is more the exception than the rule.
I doubt even if we gave Gibbo a run of games he would start to impress us. I just can't see it. There is nothing really on his game that tells me "give him time, the talent is there",... apart from his shooting and that's something that let him down in his last matches for us as well.
But hey I hope he proves me wrong and someone is later going to bump this thread and shows how blind most of us have been
Gobbo
Uninspiring player, not good enough to start in a position like central midfield for United. At least the old Fletcher had work rate and showed up in the big games. Gibson is just painfully average, more often than not below average as well.
So, it happened once before with Fletcher, therefore it will happen once again with Gibson?
Bizarre!
I hardly know of any, apart from a few people on here, who still feel he should be playing at this level. The majority at Old Trafford lost patience with him months ago hence the constant "Shooooot!" shouts he gets whenever he's on the ball (I'm sure someone will try to claim that these aren't sarcastic shouts but i assure you they are. Partly why he gets them no matter where he is on the pitch).
I think most people would agree that their heart sinks a little when they see him in our midfield because we know we're in for a struggle to compensate for his inadequacies. I think those who still feel he warrants a place in Manchester United's midfield, despite countless ineffective performances, are in the minority. Quite a small one too.
This. I watch football with a fair few different Utd fans and every one of them groans when his name is on the team-sheet or he is brought on when the game hasn't already been won. I suspect that there are a group of people on here who never want to write a player off no matter how poor just on the off chance they end up having a decent career and they can come back saying how right they were. These same people will say good riddance once it's confirmed Fergie knows what we do and he's sold.
Anyone who thinks his career in a United shirt (first team) has been anything other than inept is either a liar, doesn't watch United or an idiot.
At this time: No.
In the future: Maybe.
Case closed.
In the future: Maybe.
Case closed.
When Fletcher's case is usually the outlier and most people don't end up cutting it at United.
I'd be thrilled if he Gibson can end up being the next CM that people say look how long and hard it was for him to become a main stay but, he did it. But, when using Fletcher as an example, the personalities to me are the difference. Just don't see the kind of effort on the pitch to fight for the ball and just get around the pitch from Gibbo that Fletcher had.
Personally I feel he'll be deemed not good enough for next season. With Cleverly shining and possibly OH4 possibly given a pay as you play contract next season just based on his reputation, SAF won't keep Gibbo around with the squad rules.
I rate players relevant to the level they play at. Obviously these players are way above average. At Premiership level, they're a bit crap.
Rather what is bizzare is that people on here love to forget that they've been wrong about every scape goat they've made. Every single one. It ahs feck all to do with Gibson =Fletcher. Instead of wating to see what SAF see in this kid, he is just being written of and scape goated at every oportunity. It should have occurred to people on here by now that SAF doesn't keep giving chances to young players he doesn't believe in. But many on here act like SAF is an old fool.
I think that's key. Sir Alex has talked him up a few times, and he's put his faith in him to prove he's good enough to play for us, but people don't care. They always have to form a concrete opinion before he's even given a proper chance and before he's anywhere near showing what he can do at his best.
I thought that it was interesting to read that people saw Fletcher as a playmaker or a similar player to Carrick 4 years ago, it shows how little we'd actually seen of Fletcher's natural (or most effective?) game and his best qualities. The same thing's happening with Gibson with people deciding he's only good for his shots, pinning him down to a set role and skillset (probably before Sir Alex and Gibson himself have even worked out where he's best played yet!). You have Trappattoni and Meulensteen highlighting his passing as one of his strengths, yet you've got hoards of people saying he can't pass.
I'm not saying that because Sir Alex has shown his faith in him he'll make it, not at all, but he's obviously saw something in Gibson that tells him he could make it at the club. So it's worth having a bit of patience to see exactly what it is he sees in him instead of writing him off just because it's not immediately apparent. He's started just 26 games for us, 10 in the league.
Why are people so desperate to be conclusive? What's wrong with just withholding judgement for a while?
What's the point in a forum then? Let's just wait and see on all subjects. No real point discussing them.
Well one of the things SAF talked up about Gibson was the number of goals he could get us from midfield, something we haven't got since Scholes used to score regularly.
That just hasn't happened so have to wonder if he isn't producing in one of his main strengths (and probably the hardest for any CM to be a goal scoring one) then how much SAF will continue to see in him?
He's a good passer but, to ponderous on the ball. Nothing wrong with judging him on what we've seen because it's what we've seen. His role / ability so far indicate he should be a player that gets forward and lend support to our forward players but, when we lose the ball in those positions, he doesn't seem to be able to track back fast enough.
Doesn't seem the type to play a Carrick role where he shields the back 4 and gets things moving. His tackling and positioning aren't good enough and for the more Fletcher role where he is in everyone's face all the time, so far doesn't seem anywhere up Gibson's ally. Can't really play the Anderson role of carrying the ball forward at his feet.
So unless from here on out he has a sudden change in some other aspects of his game or when he does get a game or two, score some good goals, don't think even SAF will continue to sing his praises next season and will move on from him.
That just hasn't happened so have to wonder if he isn't producing in one of his main strengths (and probably the hardest for any CM to be a goal scoring one) then how much SAF will continue to see in him?
He's a good passer but, to ponderous on the ball. Nothing wrong with judging him on what we've seen because it's what we've seen. His role / ability so far indicate he should be a player that gets forward and lend support to our forward players but, when we lose the ball in those positions, he doesn't seem to be able to track back fast enough.
Doesn't seem the type to play a Carrick role where he shields the back 4 and gets things moving. His tackling and positioning aren't good enough and for the more Fletcher role where he is in everyone's face all the time, so far doesn't seem anywhere up Gibson's ally. Can't really play the Anderson role of carrying the ball forward at his feet.
So unless from here on out he has a sudden change in some other aspects of his game or when he does get a game or two, score some good goals, don't think even SAF will continue to sing his praises next season and will move on from him.
Problem is, even in this one thing he's quite good at, he's nowhere near Scholes. He's good for a few thunderbolts a year, but so did Scholes - who would also get you goals from the box when going forward with great timing.
I just don't see enough in Gibson's locker to be of use to us. And I can't see him playing enough to really improve, simply because we've got better players and we can't afford to let him play all that much when we're fighting for trophies.
People say he was no worse than Scholes and Fletcher in last night's first half. Correct. However, we know those two have a few more gears so we continue to play them and hope they find those gears. Gibson hasn't really shown them. He can look quite good when the team plays well; When it doesn't, he'll also look bad.
I'm OK with his staying around as backup, but he might just be blocking the route of a better talent.
Yep, if only we had a manager who had a track record of knowing how to bring through the youth.
Really, the man who sold Hughes, Kanchelskis and Ince to make way for the youth has developed a blind spot over Darron Gibson?
Come on.
But he did play as much as Gibson does. In fact he played much more. He appeared 60 times in his final two seasons at about the same age Gibson is now.
This whole "He's bound to turn out good because Fergie is playing him" argument is bollocks.
Richardson played far more and proved to be not good enough.
Djemba-Djemba, Bellion and Miller all played as much as Gibson at a similar age and all turned out to a long way from good enough.
Clearly Fergie does not always know for sure if a player is going to make it. It sometimes takes 30 or 40 or even 50 appearances over a few seasons to decide.
For a 5th/6th choice central midfielder he'll do the job until a more promising young midfielder is ready for the first team. I'm hopeful that will be Cleverley/Pogba/James/Morrison in the not too distant future.
Fletcher always had his passing, Gibson does not.
Fletcher always had his pace (and this after losing a step after that horrible injury in his late teens), Gibson does not.
Fletcher always had his tenacity, Gibson does not.
The comparisons "people wanted Fletcher out" hold no water. People wanted Djemba out, Bellion out, Kleberson out, Veron out, etc., but no one ever brings this up; they only bring Fletcher's name into the mix.
Veron, Bellion, Djemba, Kleberson, O'Kane, the list goes on. Plenty of "scape goats" have moved on. Gibson will probably be the next one.
None of them were as bad as this, and some weren't even scapegoats.
Veron was a transfer muppet's wet dream, and ironically so was Kleberson to a much lesser extent.
Bellion was NEVER meant to be 'the answer', just someone we took a punt on and it didn't work out.
Djemba-Djemba was one of those few famous transfer screw ups, but he was more a joke than being used a scapegoat.
The way some of our kids get scapegoated now is shameful.
How many really crucial games did Richardson play again?
Of course that is bollocks. Rather what we are saying if SAF wont keep picking him if he is shit. At one point last season this lad even took over Carrick s place in the team. Carrick mate. A key player in our squad.
Richardson is not player who we played in important matches. When we had a choice.
SAF gives players he believes are going to make it at United in some capacity playing time. Especailly in big matches like a champions league quarter final. This notion that SAF takes ages (i.e 30 games)to know if player are good enough for a our future is laughable. Especially coming from people who have passed judgement on him over a far shorter period.
None of those were scape goats, so your assertion is beyond wrong. It's our young players who we are developing from within that are almost always the scape goats. Fletcher at one point was called SAF's son. O'shea got similar harsh treatment. While Gibson is now getting big blame for failing to perform in a midfield in which his two seniors did nothing what so over to enable him to perform. Ending up in him being shunted to the left wing to help wake them up. Which didn't work till half time and Giggs arrived in his place. It was the same with Felcther. Paired with a terribly out of form Scheosl and Keane wrecked bya hip injury and playing out of position he kept getting blamed for their none and under performance. Then when he played well it was chalked of as a good team performance in which he was carried. Why do people feel the need to constantly say these things about our young players?
Sorry all the "top reds" but this is the truth!
Good questions Brwned. I have never got the obsession to pass quick judgement on here. It's interesting to note that Trappatoni and Meulensteen, 2 men who know about technique and passing say the boy can use the ball.
sorry to say but i dont think he will cut it out at utd. if he proves me wrong am happy but we have given him a try a few times and he is not delivering the goods at all.
Ferguson only puts faith in him because he has a good attitude, is British and is competitive.
He's not British.
Unfortunately for Darron he suffers from 'O'Shea' syndrome- where the sufferer will undoubtedly get all the blame for absolutely everything that goes wrong on the pitch even when he is no more to blame than anyone else.
He has a long way to go before we see what he's really capable of at this club so there's no need for people to be talking so negatively about him at this stage.
There's every chance he'll end up somewhere else having failed to make the grade here but he deserves the support of the fans while he's a United player, it almost seems at times people actively want him to fail- which makes absolutely no sense at all.
I find his attitude to be the worst one of any United player.
Gibson has potential and I would be sad to see him leave unless he was replaced with someone of substantially more talent. He is not an awesome player at this stage but his all round game is ok, its good enough to be an occasional fill in player for now and he still has some development in him, as long as he progresses over the next couple of years we should hang on to him.
That wouldn't take much doing, then.
Please elaborate.
Twatting the ball into row z after making a poor tackle at Blackpool. He doesn't seem to look interested in bettering himself on the pitch at times, whether this is down to poor movement or not I don't know.
Up until now I don't think he's cut the mustard, but he still has time on his side.
It doesn't fill me with confidence seeing him start games, it does however give him a chance to prove something, which I will never complain about.
It's to early to write him off, and given enough time, who knows, he could come good.
The transformation of Fletcher is an interesting one, and I think there's a fair bit to say with regards to it. I doubt that, after seeing him in his younger days, that this is the 'natural' game of Fletcher (it may well be his most suited; however, he seems to be trying to change it), though it's very difficult to talk about what natural means in this context seeing as though it seems to indicate some sort of pre-programmed style of footballer that is innate to him.
Fletcher's transformation as a footballer occcurred in accordance with the stick he got from fans. I think that, at some level, players over here that lose their confidence in expressing their ability then shape their game to at least appease the fans by putting in a hell of a lot of hard work. Park has been through a phase of this, Tevez had this for most of his United career, and Forlan was a classic example of this. When Tevez and Forlan moved on, their was no such limitation on their expresion, nor was the main focus on the commitment and work-rate that fans at least expected. They became the main man, and regained their confidence in their expression.
It's an anxious reaction basically, just as the whole "if things aren't going right, keep the simple things and do them well" lark is. It is the very reason for the way that Fletcher has developed. Perhaps Gibson's expression of his ability has been limited in such a fashion, though I think it's fair to say that Fletcher showed a lot more in the past, which is why it's a difficult comparison to draw. Fletcher altered his game to the extent that the emphasis on technical ability (which he does have and did demonstrate) was lessened, yet Gibson hasn't shown the ability that Fletcher did despite showing sporadically that he can, say, crack a 40 yard pass cross-field, and twat the ball into the net from 25 yards.
We'll see what happens, though I can sometimes understand the fans' frustrations. It's not as if he's starting every week and causing us to drop all sorts of points, but we do look a lot more apathetic (perhaps a co-incidence) when he's on the pitch.