Danny Welbeck | 2011-14 Performances

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Fletcher's charging round the pitch was because that's what we needed him to do. When he first burst in he was often deployed out wide so his role was very different, then he moved more in to a midfield 3 with scholes and keane/smith where his work rate became evident because that was what he was needed to do. Smith/Keane held, Scholes attacked when he could and Fletch went box to box, similarly when he played with Carrick and Ando. As a player in a 2 man midfield he was much more reserved as he didn't have the same capacity to hassle people as he was in a more disciplined role.

But like you said it's more of a general thing. When you're young and breaking through it's natural that you will work hard to get noticed and if you do whilst you might not become lazy or anything you might not put in as much effort. Also you have to factor in experience, as you get older you'll likely understand better when to run that extra bit. Rooney for example when he was younger although his work rate was great at times you could say he over did it and was often far too deep as a result for when we won the ball back, or in his eagerness to help out he'd give away silly fouls because he got in to positions you wouldn't want a striker to be.

I don't think an inferiority complex neccessaily means you'll work harder. Like I said as someone trying to get noticed you'll do as much as you can but in general I think most players appear to work harder because of their own choice or because part of their game is based on that stamina. I suppose you could argue that the best players can get away with doing less work but that's because you have other players who will/can pick up the slack. Ronaldo is a prime example of that. He's not lazy but he doesn't really track so others have to compensate, alternatively because he stays high it means if his team do get the ball he's in a prime position to counter. If you want to take it further, Ronaldo might not be the hardest working player on the pitch but of the pitch in training for example by all accounts he's one of the hardest workers around, does he have an inferiority complex? I doubt the likes of Park, Welbeck, Parker, Fletcher etc spend more time working on their physical/technical ability that Ronaldo.

It's natural when you're trying to make a name for yourself whether in sport or a job that you work hard, it's what you expect and what you know is expected of you. To me I don't think it really links to an inferiority complex but more about what players are willing to give and recognizing where they can maximise their contribution.
 
It's a weird one. You wonder how they teach 'finishing'. I almost fear it's something you have or you don't, at every age. I see a player like Will Keane and for as long as he's been in the youth setup he's shown the ability to find the net - even though other facets of his game weren't there yet. Same with Hernandez.

I disagree. You can teach finishing. Repetition, muscle memory and sharpen your mind and body to footballing situations and work on your ability to be creative and clever on the ball. But you can't teach someone to be a 'natural finisher' or a 'poacher'. That is instinct.

As Welbeck starts to grow into his place in the grand scheme of the first team he will start to get more comfortable with his range and his ability. We've all got to remember that two seasons ago he was a young raw lad still trying to make it who went out on loan to Sunderland. Even the biggest Welbeck fan's were probably floored by the faith Fergie showed in him at the start of last year. It just looked and felt right, up until his hamstring injury.
 
I think a player like Rooney is a good example of someone who's worked hard on finishing, and has become a very, very good one.

He still isn't a natural finisher in the way a van Persie is, but he's still banging goals in. He's worked on his movement and his finishing with his head and his feet.

It's all about getting used to being in those kind of situations often enough. Good finishing is about acting on instinct - and that instinct being right.
 
Instinct to an extent. Just as important to work hard on it, study opposition and your own players tendencies as well. There were some quotes from Gary Linekar when Hernandez first came here and impressed everyone with his movement etc. In fact he seemed pretty offended that people were suggesting it's all natural.
 
Instinct to an extent. Just as important to work hard on it, study opposition and your own players tendencies as well. There were some quotes from Gary Linekar when Hernandez first came here and impressed everyone with his movement etc. In fact he seemed pretty offended that people were suggesting it's all natural.

I play as a striker myself on a decent* level, and when I was younger I felt much more of a natural finisher than now. I just used to bang them in without thinking about it.

I've worked on my finishing to an extent, and as I've gotten some more experience I definitely has gotten more relaxed in front of goal, but I still don't put the chances away as naturally as I did when I was younger and played for youth teams.

Having said that, there's no doubt that the movement inside the box, your awareness and reaction to loose balls and rebounds are things that can be worked on. Also, honing various finishing techniques, and IMO the most important part of finishing, being able to choose the right technique for the situation you're in, can also be worked on.

It's of course also a question of composure. Some are cooler than others, obviously.


*shite
 
Ha! That's just a case of the older you get, the better you were. I was unbelievable at all sports 10 years ago, honest.

Welbeck will be a sound goalscorer when he starts to bang a few in, he's too good technically not too. I think it's all about confidence with him, not quite the inferiority complex that other weirdo was talking about, but as he grows up he'll develop an "I'm the fecking man" attitude like Drogba, Cantona. Might not be a 30 goal man but he'll get his fair share.
 
The maturity that he showed leading the line at the Euros, being supported by the worst midfield I've seen England put out at a major tournament was very impressive. Sir Alex was even surprised by how well he coped.

I think he did quite well, but really it was mainly his performance vs Sweden that got him the plaudits. A game where Andy Carroll also came out of it being dubbed a hero.

I wouldn't have given any player more than maybe a 6 or 6.5 for that tournament to be honest. The most positive thing for me was the game time he got under his belt at the top level (40 odd minutes off 4 full games was impressive).

Again I'm not sure if it's a case of being patient or a case of having to wait for him to believe he deserves to be leading the line for club and country, but I'm hoping at some point (sooner rather than later) it'll click and he'll kick on again.
 
You wonder how they teach 'finishing'. I almost fear it's something you have or you don't, at every age.

How can a Manchester United fan hold this opinion? We have seen one of the great examples of players who went from average finishers to one of the best in Ronaldo.
 
Finishing is one of the "easier" areas a player (especialy a forward/striker in this case) can and should be able to improve by working at it.

It's true that you have to be somewhat skilled at it or you're never going to play up front, but it's easier to improve your finishing than it is to improve your ability to beat a man 1 on 1, both can be done but you see more cases of the former than the latter, usualy a "dribbler" is that from a very young age, you hardly see a player suddenly starting to figure out how to beat men at will at the age of 25-29 if he's hardly ever done it before, but you will notice several players improving their finishing skills as they get older.
Example: You'd sooner expect Welbeck to "learn how to score" than you'd expect Hernandez to "learn how to dribble and beat a man 1 on 1".

Maybe I didn't put forward the best example, but hopefully it should be enough to make some people understand where I'm going with this. Welbeck has great credentials and a great work rate and no bitchy attitude, his all around game is already better than a lot of strikers, and once he improves on his finishing he is going to be a beast for us.
 
Why is everyone (everyone being media/other fans) making out like his "dive" at the weekend was the worst dive in the history of the sport? Habsi careered out of his goal, there was some minimal contact and he went down... I'd say at least 50% of other strikers (and that's a generous estimation) would have done the same... and I include WR and Hernandez in that.
 
Why is everyone (everyone being media/other fans) making out like his "dive" at the weekend was the worst dive in the history of the sport? Habsi careered out of his goal, there was some minimal contact and he went down... I'd say at least 50% of other strikers (and that's a generous estimation) would have done the same... and I include WR and Hernandez in that.

Two dodgy ones in the space of a week were always going to attract attention.

It was a dive. I'd rather he cut it out. El Habsi was stupid to even give the ref a decision to make.
 
Was there contact? I really couldn't tell, even on slow mo. Of course MOTD was sure it was a penalty, and unsurprisingly that Suarez should have had a penalty in a similar situation.
 
I play as a striker myself

Me too. I score far more goals when I rely on instinct. I miss far too many when I have time to think about it. Its very frustrating. My team mates forgive me cos I'll sometimes explode and either smash in a screamer or dribble past 5 men and score. Personally I think consistently taking a high percentage of chances is the wholy grail of striking. Its no good scoring 3 one week, then none the next

I dont see Welbeck as a natural, but he's a bright lad, and can be taught.

Good point about repetition and muscle memory. Karate is massively about that, so I agree about the benefits. Practice something enough and it becomes instinctive
 
Ha! That's just a case of the older you get, the better you were. I was unbelievable at all sports 10 years ago, honest.

Welbeck will be a sound goalscorer when he starts to bang a few in, he's too good technically not too. I think it's all about confidence with him, not quite the inferiority complex that other weirdo was talking about, but as he grows up he'll develop an "I'm the fecking man" attitude like Drogba, Cantona. Might not be a 30 goal man but he'll get his fair share.

Nah, I'm 22. I'm talking about at youth level. When I was 14-15 I virtually never missed a chance, despite me obviously being quite a lot better technically and experience wise now.
 
Good point about repetition and muscle memory. Karate is massively about that, so I agree about the benefits. Practice something enough and it becomes instinctive

This is very true. What we call "instinct" is something that can be closely mimicked by muscle memory.
 
Annoying tonight. Should've scored at least twice.
 
Never rated him as high as some on here, but he looks to be going backwards. His finishing is bloody awful and when he has the ball he doesn't look to have a clue what he wants to do with it.
 
If you combined Welbecks ability out of the box with Hernandez' ability inside it you'd have one hell of player.
 
Never rated him as high as some on here, but he looks to be going backwards. His finishing is bloody awful and when he has the ball he doesn't look to have a clue what he wants to do with it.

He's a Youngster, patience is needed. He'll be fecking class in 2-3 years.
 
It's weird that inside the box, he becomes lethargic and hesitant whether it comes to shooting or even passing the ball.Outside the box, his linking up is fine.He's too nervous
 
But still a cracking player. But I suppose I worry if his lack of goal scoring instinct will stop him becoming a world class player.

Because if he could finish he very well could be that one day.

Loved his workrate on Harper. Just didnt give it up
 
Not every youngster becomes class. It could go either way

He'll be class, he was fine at the lower levels scoring goals and since then he's added work-rate. Once he gets that confidence in front of goal and becomes consistent he'll be one of the best Forwards in the League.
 
Shocking lack of composure in the box and finishing. The amount of chances he has wasted since the start of last season is criminal.
 
Hardworking and honest is how I describe Welbeck at the moment.

He's a great defensive forward if that makes sense...but finishing and composure in the box....yeah, it's basically on par with Suarez. 15 shots and maybe 1 might go in.
 
I remembered all the abuse, negative publicity and unfair reputation Andy Cole got as a poor finisher in his first season. However, the club persisted in him, shown him faith and he became one hell of a goalscorer for us over the years. Welbeck is seriously shite in front of the goal, but he's still young and surely will improve on this aspect. That being said, i do not rate him as high as most of the caftards here.
 
Hes been very underwhelming lately, and really needs to work on his finishing. Hes a hard worker and that gave him a huge chance today, but he needs to show more than trying.

That being said, Im glad we are in a position as a team where we can afford giving Welbeck playtime without it hindering our success as a unit. Hes still young, and I hope he will improve with the game time hes given. Does need to show some improvement soon though or it will be hard to justify his place on the team sheet..
 
With Welbeck it might be a combination of things.

1. Arrival of RVP.

2. New contract and the pressure that comes with big money.

3. Lack of a goal in months.

4. Youth.

End of the day he's never looked a clinical striker. The one thing he does give you though is 110% each game and the willingness to do all the little things to help the team even when he's not scoring.

Clearly he's not our best striker and he might never be, but he's versatile enough to be ahead of Hernandez at the moment.
 
If you combined Welbecks ability out of the box with Hernandez' ability inside it you'd have one hell of player.

Need some sort of dragonball z style fusion.

Hernanbeck

Welnandez? :drool:
 
Poor finishing today but he fecking pressed them all around the field and linked up well with players around.

Good all around performance.
 
He needs to work on his finishing and become more clinical. Other than that, he's an excellent young player
 
He's good at everything except finishing chances, bit of a problem when you're a striker. He's very young though, so it can only get better
 
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