[Kag]

Lots of poorly thought-out revisionism in this thread of late. He's had a poor finish to the season but his contribution this season has been sizable.

Consistent, reliable and (twice) a match-saver. He played well during a time in which the rest of the squad was still coming to terms with the demands of the manager and I think he deserves credit for that kind of resilience.

He has his flaws, but he's a proper footballer that has had a good season, and anything to the contrary would be undermining.

 

[Americano]

He was up against a great team, sometimes you turn in a subpar performance.

 

[Attila]

Blind is our most overrated player right now.

Anyone who thinks that he will be a starter next season is in for a shock imo

 

[Godfather]

Stupid post. He might not be a great left back, but he's shown (especially in big games vs Spurs and Liverpool) that he can capably fill in.

He shouldnt be more than a last ditch solution in the left back position. I really like him as a midfielder alongside someone like Carrick. But he really is way too slow to play on the sides. He had some good performances for us there but generally I've never been too impressed with him as a left back.

 

[Speak]

@Sammyjunn, I realised I said "deep-lying playmaker" in that other post. Meant "deep-lying midfielder".

 

[Sammyjunn]

In that case, there are better players for that role. I still don't believe that a player more capable with the ball can't be implemented.
When Carrick plays the role, and injects speed and purpose in our play, we certainly don't look worse for it. That's what takes a team up a level.

Even if it we break his role down to simply breaking up play and passing short. Even if that's literally all the role requires, and if all the bits that Carrick adds aren't necessary - Blind can be improved upon.

Give examples, who are attainable for us. If we were to play that role, Blind is one of the better options for us. Ideally we'd go for the likes of Busquets, Veratti, Martinez, Schweini but there's no way that there coming our way. We need a DM who has the intelligence to play in a dominant possession based team, has good passing, reads the game well, and can link up defence and midfield. The name I hear the most is Schneiderlin, but the likes of Matuidi, Kondogbia etc are different tyoes. But this is, if LVG would want to make us play that brand of football, not that Blind and LVG are buddies, and that's why he's here, but I think only LVG would buy Blind, because he fits in his 'philosophy'.

 

[Sammyjunn]

@Sammyjunn, I realised I said "deep-lying playmaker" in that other post. Meant "deep-lying midfielder".

Aaah, quite a difference.

 

[Speak]

Give examples, who are attainable for us. If we were to play that role, Blind is one of the better options for us. Ideally we'd go for the likes of Busquets, Veratti, Martinez, Schweini but there's no way that there coming our way. We need a DM who has the intelligence to play in a dominant possession based team, has good passing, reads the game well, and can link up defence and midfield. The name I hear the most is Schneiderlin, but the likes of Matuidi, Kondogbia etc are different tyoes. But this is, if LVG would want to make us play that brand of football, not that Blind and LVG are buddies, and that's why he's here, but I think only LVG would buy Blind, because he fits in his 'philosophy'.

Right now? Ensure we secure Schneiderlin or Schweinsteiger alongside a more advanced midifelder.
If they don't materialise? Get in that advanced midfielder, pray that Carrick's fit for most of the year, and hopefully that player is available next summer.

I don't think Blind is (or will be) good enough, but I won't keel over if he has to play. I think it needs sorting out soon though, because Carrick's not around for much longer.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Right now? Ensure we secure Schneiderlin or Schweinsteiger alongside a more advanced midifelder.
If they don't materialise? Get in that advanced midfielder, pray that Carrick's fit for most of the year, and hopefully that player is available next summer.

I don't think Blind is (or will be) good enough, but I won't keel over if he has to play. I think it needs sorting out soon though, because Carrick's not around for much longer.

Think only Schneiderlin is a possibility, but even him, he's doing good at a midtable team, no idea how the step up will be for him. Just like until now, also due to injuries, Lambert, Shaw, Lallana, Lovren all havent been able to continue their form at Soton at a bigger club.

We'll see, LVG will adress the situation, just like he's sorted our wing out by buying, hasnt signed Falcao. He knows our squad now, and will know he's coming in and going out.

 

[11101]

wasn't carrick bullied a lot , just last yr v relegation fodder fulham he ducked out of a challenge and fulham equalised. didn't carrick lose an aerial duel v BM for the goal just before the half. he did continue to play for the sid didn't he? IMO carrick is not the hardest man ever to play in our midf.

Carrick made a lot of mistakes that led to goals when he first joined, which is partly why he took a lot of stick at the time. I think theyre fairly equal at the same age, with different strengths and weaknesses.

 

[darioterios]

Carrick made a lot of mistakes that led to goals when he first joined, which is partly why he took a lot of stick at the time. I think theyre fairly equal at the same age, with different strengths and weaknesses.

wow, just wow

 

[11101]

wow, just wow

Carrick was repeatedly dropped in the 2010 season. Hes not always been our best midfielder and its stupid to overlook that when comparing new joiners like Blind. Compare them at similar stages in their careers.

We did the same thing comparing Carrick to Scholes/Keane when he joined, whilst forgetting there was a time SAF didnt know what to do with Scholes and Keane was on the decline from his injuries.

 

[NL Max]

Blind is our most overrated player right now.

Anyone who thinks that he will be a starter next season is in for a shock imo

Since he was a fixed starter this season and van Gaal mentioned he's after a right-sided midfielder, you might be the one in for a shock..

 

[ivaldo]

Carrick was repeatedly dropped in the 2010 season. Hes not always been our best midfielder and its stupid to overlook that when comparing new joiners like Blind. Compare them at similar stages in their careers.

We did the same thing comparing Carrick to Scholes/Keane when he joined, whilst forgetting there was a time SAF didnt know what to do with Scholes and Keane was on the decline from his injuries.

Don't bother mate, hes clearly one of the many that have mastered the art of revisionism. Two good games in a row and he'll be the tits again.

 

[Speak]

Even Blind's good games aren't that good.

 

[darioterios]

Carrick was repeatedly 'sin the 2010 season

always this, we had quite a functioning midfield back then, Fletcher was a regular at the time, and that gave conditions for Fergie's rotation. The time I would say Carrick was extendedly dropped for stupid performances was after that match against LvG's Bayern, which was a comprehensible thing to do. Otherwise I don't see the difference in his contribution to the team, remember at the beginning of his time here Carrick was given license to roam back and forth a bit, but later he had to hold back and all the "crab" stuff appeared

 

[Nighteyes]

Blind is our most overrated player right now.

Anyone who thinks that he will be a starter next season is in for a shock imo

This.

 

[mu77]

i think if we went back to the carrick thread when he was bought right through his first season you'd see the same shit only different said about his game v keane. "he passes well but he's soft" "scholes is the heartbeat of midf." etc. same here different players doing the job. blind is slow but smart and should be better his second season. when i think over rated on this side i look at ADM , Falcao and shaw. all did less for the team and cost loads more.

 

[Robbie Boy]

This.

You wot m8? Overrated? Have you read the comments on here lately? It seems that most think he's pretty shit these days. The positive comments regarding Blind are definitely in the minority. He was maybe overrated at one point, but that was a long time ago now. He's a decent squad player, the majority would agree on that. Some of the criticisms is OTT and laughable, though.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

Blind is doing as expected. Solid, clever, puts in a shift and is versatile and pretty consistent. I can't see how he is overrated. Shaw, Falcao (wages) and ADM cost so much more and have flopped massively so far whereas Blind has been one of our more shrewd signings. No nonsense, gets on with the job and is doing pretty good considering he is also learning the league along with players who people use that excuse for constantly. I could only imagine he will get even better next season.

 

[Kostur]

Blind is doing as expected. Solid, clever, puts in a shift and is versatile and pretty consistent. I can't see how he is overrated. Shaw, Falcao (wages) and ADM cost so much more and have flopped massively so far whereas Blind has been one of our more shrewd signings. No nonsense, gets on with the job and is doing pretty good considering he is also learning the league along with players who people use that excuse for constantly. I could only imagine he will get even better next season.

Pretty much this, bought for relatively low fee, first season in the league, scored two goals (both of which ended with draws), been thrown around left-back, defensive midfielder and even a central defender when we've played this 352 abomination. Done good job, looked shaky/shitty at the end of the season, probably due to WC fatigue or whatever, can't see how he's overrated.

 

[11101]

always this, we had quite a functioning midfield back then, Fletcher was a regular at the time, and that gave conditions for Fergie's rotation. The time I would say Carrick was extendedly dropped for stupid performances was after that match against LvG's Bayern, which was a comprehensible thing to do. Otherwise I don't see the difference in his contribution to the team, remember at the beginning of his time here Carrick was given license to roam back and forth a bit, but later he had to hold back and all the "crab" stuff appeared

And you think Blind hasnt been told to hold back? Watch him for NL or Ajax.

It wasnt rotation in 2010. Fletcher was playing better and Carrick had the run around a few times.

 

[darioterios]

And you think Blind hasnt been told to hold back? Watch him for NL or Ajax.

It wasnt rotation in 2010. Fletcher was playing better and Carrick had the run around a few times.

30 league games 22 starts, 8 European games 6 starts, hardly being repeatedly dropped until after that Bayern game.

okay, even to recognize his "poor form" in 2010, every player would experience a low period during a long career, a very normal fact for every professional sportsman. and Carrick's career at United was as consistent as it gets, a period of drop for around generously speaking half a year.

 

[Speak]

He's not overrated. He's not a great player, and has been (in my opinion) credited with attributes that he doesn't have, but most seem to accept he's a stop-gap, and ultimately a squad player/back up for midfield. There was a time when people seemed to get carried away, and forgot just what Carrick brings to the side, but that didn't last long.

 

[mazhar13]

He's not overrated. He's not a great player, and has been (in my opinion) credited with attributes that he doesn't have, but most seem to accept he's a stop-gap, and ultimately a squad player/back up for midfield. There was a time when people seemed to get carried away, and forgot just what Carrick brings to the side, but that didn't last long.

You've mainly focused on the physical attributes and passing range/vision when talking about Blind. All you've focused on are his weaknesses and ignored his strengths that contributed to his excellent performances during the first half of the season.

You talk about getting Schneiderlin/Schweinsteiger for the defensive midfield role, but both don't suit the role in our setup. Schneiderlin is best suited to a team that sits deep with a compact defence (quite a hypocritical choice as well*), and Schweini is a box-to-box midfielder and in no way is a deep-lying midfielder. What you seem to want is either a physical destroyer or a deep-lying playmaker; basically, you want the flashier sort of deep-lying midfielders.

This is 2009/10 Carrick all over again...

*

So on one hand, people go on about Carrick's undervalued ability to defend quietly, and without tackling, by using positioning and closing off lanes... yet here Carrick having fewer tackles etc. is proof that he's weaker defensively? I haven't seen Carrick need to professional foul like Blind does, and I haven't seen Carrick get rinsed on the break like I have Blind. Blind is busier, but Carrick does a better defensive job.

 

[Speak]

You've mainly focused on the physical attributes and passing range/vision when talking about Blind. All you've focused on are his weaknesses and ignored his strengths that contributed to his excellent performances during the first half of the season.

You talk about getting Schneiderlin/Schweinsteiger for the defensive midfield role, but both don't suit the role in our setup. Schneiderlin is best suited to a team that sits deep with a compact defence (quite a hypocritical choice as well*), and Schweini is a box-to-box midfielder and in no way is a deep-lying midfielder. What you seem to want is either a physical destroyer or a deep-lying playmaker; basically, you want the flashier sort of deep-lying midfielders.

This is 2009/10 Carrick all over again...

*

Schneiderlin is more than capable of doing the job in a forward-thinking side. Southampton often played on the front foot under Pochettino.
It's not hypocritical. I never said Schneiderlin was better than Carrick defensively. But, using my eyes, the times I've watched him, he's been extremely hard to break past, his standing tackle is level with Matic (if not better) as best in the league, and his positioning is sound.

Blind has no real strengths, other than being available (albeit almost always very deep) and ball retention. And even his passing is slow, basic, and never sets the tempo, rarely breaches the midfield lines, and is rarely rarely one-touch.

I'm yet to see a genuine strength. Carrick may have been criticised, but he had the genuine strengths, with his much superior passing, much sounder defensive game, tidier feet, and he even had the ability to carry the ball a bit back then. If he was being criticised, it was a case of getting him to use those tools.

I've focused on his physical attributes and passing range, because these are at the root of him being under par.

Edit: Also, how is a deep-lying playmaker 'flashy'? Carrick wasn't flashy. People used to say he didn't get credit because he wasn't flashy. Some can be flashy, but being flashy isn't a requirement. Someone like Schneiderlin isn't flashy either.

 

[mazhar13]

Schneiderlin is more than capable of doing the job in a forward-thinking side. Southampton often played on the front foot under Pochettino.
It's not hypocritical. I never said Schneiderlin was better than Carrick defensively. But, using my eyes, the times I've watched him, he's been extremely hard to break past, his standing tackle is level with Matic as best in the league, and his positioning is sound.

The hypocrisy was related to you criticising Blind for being busier due to his higher numbers yet mentioning Morgan who has definitely been busier than Blind has been this season from midfield. Also, under Poch, Morgan based his game on his aggression and energy levels. Even under Adkins, he was all over the place and closing down tons of spaces. Matic and Schneiderlin are very similar defensively, and I'm not saying that he's positionally poor, but his game is more about his aggression and energy levels than sound positioning and reading of the game.

Blind has no real strengths, other than being available (albeit almost always very deep) and ball retention. And even his passing is slow, basic, and never sets the tempo, never breaches the midfield lines, and is rarely rarely one-touch.

You're ignoring Blind's strengths that made him a key deep-lying midfielder for Ajax and for us during the first half of the season. You completely disregard his intelligence on the pitch, his decision-making, and his reading of the game. When we had Fellaini and Mata in midfield in our 4-3-3 during the first half of the season, Blind was a key player in closing down the passing lanes, reading opposition attacks, and giving us a more solid defensive shape. It's only since his injuries that he's started playing completely differently.

Edit: Also, how is a deep-lying playmaker 'flashy'? Carrick wasn't flashy. People used to say he didn't get credit because he wasn't flashy. Some can be flashy, but being flashy isn't a requirement.

Ever since Xavi and Pirlo rose to prominence, deep-lying playmakers have come under the lens. Coincidentally, Carrick also rose in importance during this time, and we saw this epitomised in 2011.

 

[RedFish]

Schneiderlin is more than capable of doing the job in a forward-thinking side. Southampton often played on the front foot under Pochettino.
It's not hypocritical. I never said Schneiderlin was better than Carrick defensively. But, using my eyes, the times I've watched him, he's been extremely hard to break past, his standing tackle is level with Matic (if not better) as best in the league, and his positioning is sound.

Blind has no real strengths, other than being available (albeit almost always very deep) and ball retention. And even his passing is slow, basic, and never sets the tempo, never breaches the midfield lines, and is rarely rarely one-touch.

I'm yet to see a genuine strength. Carrick may have been criticised, but he had the genuine strengths, with his much superior passing, much sounder defensive game, tidier feet, and he even had the ability to carry the ball a bit back then. If he was being criticised, it was a case of getting him to use those tools.

I've focused on his physical attributes and passing range, because these are at the root of him being under par.

Edit: Also, how is a deep-lying playmaker 'flashy'? Carrick wasn't flashy. People used to say he didn't get credit because he wasn't flashy. Some can be flashy, but being flashy isn't a requirement. Someone like Schneiderlin isn't flashy either.

Water Carrier? Even they have their function. I think that's a tad harsh tbh, his strength is a very good football brain - being tactically aware and being able to execute the correct pass most of the time.

 

[Speak]

The hypocrisy was related to you criticising Blind for being busier due to his higher numbers yet mentioning Morgan who has definitely been busier than Blind has been this season from midfield. Also, under Poch, Morgan based his game on his aggression and energy levels. Even under Adkins, he was all over the place and closing down tons of spaces. Matic and Schneiderlin are very similar defensively, and I'm not saying that he's positionally poor, but his game is more about his aggression and energy levels than sound positioning and reading of the game.

I pointed out that Blind having more tackles didn't make him a better defensive player than Carrick, which was being implied.
I didn't say that having better numbers makes you worse. I also didn't compare Schneiderlin to Carrick at all.
Schneiderlin could make more tackles, interceptions, clearances... than Blind and it wouldn't change my opinion that he's superior defensively. He oculd make fewer, and I'd still think the same. I couldn't even tell you how many tackles, clearances, interceptions they actually make, but when I watch them, I can see who's better defensively.

I've never said that being an aggressive defensive player is a negative. I'm not criticizing Blind for being busy (there's more than one way to be effective in the role, and Carrick's way isn't the blueprint) but in Blind's case, I think he's busy without being that good. You may argue that Schneiderlin is just as 'busy' as Blind, but he's better while doing it.

You're ignoring Blind's strengths that made him a key deep-lying midfielder for Ajax and for us during the first half of the season. You completely disregard his intelligence on the pitch, his decision-making, and his reading of the game. When we had Fellaini and Mata in midfield in our 4-3-3 during the first half of the season, Blind was a key player in closing down the passing lanes, reading opposition attacks, and giving us a more solid defensive shape. It's only since his injuries that he's started playing completely differently.

This is my point. I don't think he does close down passing lanes particularly well. He's intelligent, and you can tell he has a good understanding of the game, but beyond the basics of sitting really deep, having a good (not great) understanding, and being there, I don't see a particularly skilled breaker-up of play. On top of that, he's iffy on the break. Maybe it's what he does best, but he's not great at it.

Maybe I'll have to go and re-watch some early games, but if it's the games like QPR (which I suspect had a big impact on everyone's memory of the early part of the season in general) then I don't take much from it.

Ever since Xavi and Pirlo rose to prominence, deep-lying playmakers have come under the lens. Coincidentally, Carrick also rose in importance during this time, and we saw this epitomised in 2011.

I actually wouldn't dispute this. I'd agree totally, and I've argued that Xavi's impact has even made Scholes go up in value. But these players are important, whether they're fashionable right now or not. The best teams around have somebody doing something, to some degree, like those guys.

 

[Speak]

Water Carrier? Even they have their function. I think that's a tad harsh tbh, his strength is a very good football brain - being tactically aware and being able to execute the correct pass most of the time.

See, if that's the best that can be suggested then it says it all, really.

A very good football brain is a minimum requirement for this role. It's a base-level skill.
And then his passing. You say "correct" pass. I can agree that he's a very tidy and consistent short passer, and gets brilliant weight on these short passes.

But if that's pretty much where his strengths begin and end, well that's not much is it? The top midfielders wouldn't even consider these amongst their real strengths. These are their base-level skills.

The problem is that this is pretty much where the skill-set ends for Blind.

 

[Ibi Dreams]

Lots of poorly thought-out revisionism in this thread of late. He's had a poor finish to the season but his contribution this season has been sizable.

Consistent, reliable and (twice) a match-saver. He played well during a time in which the rest of the squad was still coming to terms with the demands of the manager and I think he deserves credit for that kind of resilience.

He has his flaws, but he's a proper footballer that has had a good season, and anything to the contrary would be undermining.

Pretty much sums it up perfectly. Not really sure why a lot of people seem so keen to downplay him when he's had a really positive contribution to the team.

Blind won the Eredivisie player of the year award last season playing as a defensive midfielder, and that was after being converted to the position a year or two beforehand. He's faced much harder opposition at United, and he's done well. Having had a year of Premier League experience and more time in the midfield role, I expect him to have an even better season this time around.

 

[SonnyTheHaloPro]

See, if that's the best that can be suggested then it says it all, really.

A very good football brain is a minimum requirement for this role. It's a base-level skill.
And then his passing. You say "correct" pass. I can agree that he's a very tidy and consistent short passer, and gets brilliant weight on these short passes.

But if that's pretty much where his strengths begin and end, well that's not much is it? The top midfielders wouldn't even consider these amongst their real strengths. These are their base-level skills.

The problem is that this is pretty much where the skill-set ends for Blind.

I agree.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

See, if that's the best that can be suggested then it says it all, really.

A very good football brain is a minimum requirement for this role. It's a base-level skill.
And then his passing. You say "correct" pass. I can agree that he's a very tidy and consistent short passer, and gets brilliant weight on these short passes.

But if that's pretty much where his strengths begin and end, well that's not much is it? The top midfielders wouldn't even consider these amongst their real strengths. These are their base-level skills.

The problem is that this is pretty much where the skill-set ends for Blind.

Well that's not true. You've watched Gerrard play football, right?

 

[lem8sh]

The epitome of a nothing player. Except when left back where he's decent imo.

 

[World Game]

See, if that's the best that can be suggested then it says it all, really.

A very good football brain is a minimum requirement for this role. It's a base-level skill.
And then his passing. You say "correct" pass. I can agree that he's a very tidy and consistent short passer, and gets brilliant weight on these short passes.

But if that's pretty much where his strengths begin and end, well that's not much is it? The top midfielders wouldn't even consider these amongst their real strengths. These are their base-level skills.

The problem is that this is pretty much where the skill-set ends for Blind.

The football brain is the most important requirement. It's the skill which separates at the highest level. Intelligence can compensate for other factors but other factors can't compensate for a lack of intelligence. This is a defining trait in the players demanded by philosophies such as LvG's.

 

[RikRuud]

A very useful and reliable player who can be utilized in multiple positions and is reliable when called upon. Not a starter when we are at full strength but a very important squad player non the less.

 

[Speak]

Well that's not true. You've watched Gerrard play football, right?

Sorry, I meant deep midfielders.

The football brain is the most important requirement. It's the skill which separates at the highest level. Intelligence can compensate for other factors but other factors can't compensate for a lack of intelligence. This is a defining trait in the players demanded by philosophies such as LvG's.

I'm not deny that. I'm saying that it's a given. Having the brains is crucial, but you wont be good just because you have it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Sorry, I meant deep midfielders.

I'm not deny that. I'm saying that it's a given. Having the brains is crucial, but you wont be good just because you have it.

What about Makalele then? What other exeptional qualities did he have?

 

[Sarni]

How is he overrated? The way people have talked about him lately you'd think he'd struggle to play in League One!

 

[Speak]

What about Makalele then? What other exeptional qualities did he have?

His defending. He was a much better defender, in just about every way.
Maybe Blind will get there in that regard, but his lack of acceleration, pace, agility, reach is against him, even if he takes his reading of the game up a level.