The underrating of Barry is hilarious. Comparing Blind to him is not an insult, it's about the level Blind is at. They are both left footed versatile defensive minded midfielders who aren't the quickest. If anything, the comparison is harsh on Barry who's done it at a higher level in the league.
17
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 29
- Clean sheets
- 9
- Goals
- 2
- Assists
- 3
- Yellow cards
- 4
Statistically he defends better than Carrick.
Tackles won: Blind 43, Carrick 19
Interceptions: Blind 81, Carrick 31
Clearances: Blind 69, Carrick 37.
Blind has played a few more games, but even at average per game, Blind still comes out on top.
Blind has also created more chances, delivered more 'key passes' and dispatched significantly more forward passes this season than Carrick. Carrick has the highest average pass length in the squad, with 20m. Blind is 2nd with 18.5m. But Blind has no passing range, right?
Blind also has more goals and assists. Not bad for a player who is "unadventurous".
Right...
So on one hand, people go on about Carrick's undervalued ability to defend quietly, and without tackling, by using positioning and closing off lanes... yet here Carrick having fewer tackles etc. is proof that he's weaker defensively? I haven't seen Carrick need to professional foul like Blind does, and I haven't seen Carrick get rinsed on the break like I have Blind. Blind is busier, but Carrick does a better defensive job.
Created more chances when? Per game? Over the season? He played left back, Carrick played fewer games, and a higher percentage of them were 'big' games. Average pass length means little. A pass to the left back isn't the same as a pass between the lines (a Carrick pass to Rooney is a common one), even if they travel the same length.
Blind played more basic forward passes than Carrick. He's played more passes, period. As I've said, he drops extremely deep and plays extremely safe passes. Blind has one goal more, and has more assists, because he played more.
They aren't even in the same league. Carrick's one-touch, two-touch, passing through the lines is much better. Thus his passing is zippier and allows him to increase/reduce the tempo more effectively.
Carrick can receive a wider range of passes in a wider range of areas (an example being his common chest control, followed by a pass, whereas Blind only wants the ball rolled into his path, and positions himself accordingly). He's rarely rushed in possession under pressure (not the case for Blind), he can turn much better on the ball and turn out of danger, and he defends better. I do not see one area where Blind is level, let alone better. And his limitations make it unlikely for him to reach Carrick's level.
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If Carrick was defending purely with his positioning, then he would naturally win more interceptions if he's closing off lanes rather than making tackles. He only played 7 games fewer than Blind, yet has 40 fewer interceptions. Blind has done better in that regard.
It's not really an issue where Blind has played on the pitch to achieve the stats he has. You're criticising his range of passing and his overall passing ability. If anything, his ball retention at left back should go in his favour and not against him, as he was constantly seeing the ball under more pressure out on the left than deep in midfield, and has done very well in both situations. So I'm not sure how that can be used against him.
I'm not even disputing who the better player is here. I still think it's Carrick, but the disregard of Blind's ability is just false. Statistically, his ball playing is very good, his defending is very good, the overall opinion of him after most of the games he has played this season has been very good, but that's been written off purely as "over-praise".
So, the stats are meaningless and the plentiful positive reactions are over exaggerated, so I guess the guy just can't win no matter what he does.
It's not really an issue where Blind has played on the pitch to achieve the stats he has. You're criticising his range of passing and his overall passing ability. If anything, his ball retention at left back should go in his favour and not against him, as he was constantly seeing the ball under more pressure out on the left than deep in midfield, and has done very well in both situations. So I'm not sure how that can be used against him.
I'm not even disputing who the better player is here. I still think it's Carrick, but the disregard of Blind's ability is just false. Statistically, his ball playing is very good, his defending is very good, the overall opinion of him after most of the games he has played this season has been very good, but that's been written off purely as "over-praise".
So, the stats are meaningless and the plentiful positive reactions are over exaggerated, so I guess the guy just can't win no matter what he does.
Closing off passing lanes would mean the pass isn't attempted, and the opposition pass to a less dangerous area instead. His interceptions wouldn't be higher in this case.
Left/right backs aren't under pressure much more than an extremely deep lying midfielder for most of the time they have possession. The default pass for any left back is the deep midfielder or the centre back. They then play the risky pass if they manage to regain the ball deep in the oppositions half. Four out of five passes (random estimate) wouldn't be pressured/difficult passes. I do think he's better at left back, though.
He's not a bad player, and he has general football intelligence, but I'm simply asking what Blind actually does that can't be provided (with benefits) by somebody else. Stats. truly don't really say much, but when you watch him, it's clear that he isn't comfortable with the ball in more congested areas (which limits his movement), he doesn't pass between the lines, he can't turn well, he doesn't play one-touch, and he plays the rest of it in such a way that slows things down, but never speeds it up (which is crucial). On top of that he just isn't great defensively - he's bound to make tackles etc. but he isn't skilled defensively.
All I'm seeing is a guy who has a nice, simple first touch, provides a very deep outlet, and plays mostly simple passes at the same speed. Defensively, he has basic nous, but is turned quite easily, dribbled past pretty easily on the break, and can't jump.
For a guy who people have claimed can reach Carrick's level, I'm asking for non-statistical (because they're pretty dodgy) reasons behind this.
In one of the other threads, people were claiming that he speeds play up better than Carrick, is better at quick passing, and links up better with the higher midfielders, which is, frankly, the complete opposite of reality. Things like this lead me to believe he's being praised for things he simply doesn't do.
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The stats aren't meaningless, but they are rudimentary and you're reading far too much into them. Making more tackles and interceptions ≠ better defending, hence why Sir Alex and Maldini said this:
Maldini said:
Sir Alex on Maldini said:
This alone makes me wonder how much you actually watched him this season? He is one of the best in the team for receiving the ball under pressure and moving it into space.
We'll have to disagree.
He puts himself in a deep position, almost between the centre backs, in order to receive the ball. In some cases (West Brom) he'll have the whole of the opposition team ahead of him. In other cases (Everton at home) the strikers will be semi-close to him, and in some cases (City away) they'll squeeze, and he'll struggle.
From that position he may burst into the more congested area to go for a loose ball or a tackle, but he doesn't like the ball given to him in that area, hence he'll move deeper. The problem with this is that it moves the ball back out of the more dangerous areas, and then when he has it, he rarely plays it back into those areas or between the lines. He rarely increases the tempo or initiates an attack.
I've literally just been watching four or five "every touch" videos to make sure I wasn't seeing things. The West Brom away, Leicester home, City away, Everton home. I just didn't want to post them and annoy everyone even more.
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I'm looking forward to see what will happen with Blind next season. LvG confirmed he was a fixed starter this season and that he bought him for midfield. He's not fully compareable to Carrick, so I'm not going to compare them. Carrick obviously was a better holding mid last season.
People say he's a utility player but except from holding mid or leftback he's not got any other positions he's good at. He's no centreback or box-to-box midfielder and will never be one, he can only do a job there in a severe injury crisis. Many people here write him off for the midfield completely, but I don't think that'll be the case. I think he has the potential to become a vital cog, he has only played 1,5 years of his professional carreer as midfielder and is only 24.
Blind has specific strenghts: a good short passing game, he's got a great long ball too but doesn't use it as often yet. He's an intelligent player and not a real agressive ball-winner which many seem to think. He's never been one at Ajax, he was part of their midfield who put high pressure on opponents though. In van Gaal possesion based football Blind can certainly do the same, the whole team needs to do this effectively though otherwise it backfires.
His biggest weakness is that he's no athlete. He's got a great engine but isn't very quick, tall, agile or strong. With exception of the latter those things won't change and he's had that his whole carreer against him, but he still managed to earn a transfer to Ajax and Manchester United. This is because of his leadership on the pitch and his intelligent movement, shielding of passing lanes and ability to put opponents under pressure. With his brain he makes up for his lack of physical traits. His multifunctionality also helps and he seems like a really down to earth lad aswell.
He's a great leftback to have and I have no doubt he'll get his games there aswell. I doubt he'll ever become first choice leftback though.
I think Blind can prove the doubters wrong like he also did at Ajax, but at the worst he'll be a great backup leftback/holding mid.
People say he's a utility player but except from holding mid or leftback he's not got any other positions he's good at. He's no centreback or box-to-box midfielder and will never be one, he can only do a job there in a severe injury crisis. Many people here write him off for the midfield completely, but I don't think that'll be the case. I think he has the potential to become a vital cog, he has only played 1,5 years of his professional carreer as midfielder and is only 24.
Blind has specific strenghts: a good short passing game, he's got a great long ball too but doesn't use it as often yet. He's an intelligent player and not a real agressive ball-winner which many seem to think. He's never been one at Ajax, he was part of their midfield who put high pressure on opponents though. In van Gaal possesion based football Blind can certainly do the same, the whole team needs to do this effectively though otherwise it backfires.
His biggest weakness is that he's no athlete. He's got a great engine but isn't very quick, tall, agile or strong. With exception of the latter those things won't change and he's had that his whole carreer against him, but he still managed to earn a transfer to Ajax and Manchester United. This is because of his leadership on the pitch and his intelligent movement, shielding of passing lanes and ability to put opponents under pressure. With his brain he makes up for his lack of physical traits. His multifunctionality also helps and he seems like a really down to earth lad aswell.
He's a great leftback to have and I have no doubt he'll get his games there aswell. I doubt he'll ever become first choice leftback though.
I think Blind can prove the doubters wrong like he also did at Ajax, but at the worst he'll be a great backup leftback/holding mid.
If we take into consideration that it was his first season in a foreign country and at the highest level, his overall contribution was good. Nobody expected of him to have the same impact he had in the second half of of the 2013/14 season when his utilization in the midfield literally changed Ajax's fortune for the better. On the other hand, it's clear that he still has some distance to travel in order to reach Carrick's level. But with Carrick at 34 and with many doubts about his fitness levels, maybe looking for a ready-made solution in that neuralgic holding midfielder position is the right thing to do. The difference between having and not having Carrick on the pitch, especially in the big games and away from home, was chaotic.
But, given the fact that we'll have European games next season and that we'll probably aim to win a domestic cup, i'm sure he'll get a lot of playing time. I won't be surprised if he eventually makes it as a midfielder here, he won't be either the first or the last player LvG has improved in his managerial career. I wouldn't dismiss the idea of him being used as a LB though, especially if we sign a creative player like Alves to play at RB. In that case Alves (or whoever) would operate more or less as a wing back while Blind, on the left side, would play deeper and closer to the CBs. We could potentially have a second player, besides Carrick, to provide the first pass out of the back and LvG could still have the four men he wants to defend (two CBs, Blind and Carrick). Not the most "symmetric' tactic but then again, this has never troubled van Gaal in the past.
Speak is going so OTT, ofcourse stats dont say everything but he is really acting as if does nothing during the entire match and just only plays it DDG, just not true.
We've seen this very well from Blind in the first half of the season where he was almost a wall in midfield with the opposition rarely getting past him. It was only when he got injured and recovered that we saw him somehow change his game and rely more on his weak athletic skills to defend during the second half of the season. Plus, he fatigued much more easily in the second half of matches during the second half of the season, so it is quite obvious that he still has to adjust to this league.
However, given his high intelligence levels and great reading of the game, I do think that he'll defend less aggressively and physically and more like Carrick, Alonso, and Busquets do in the second season. After having experienced what the Premier League is like during the first season, I'm sure he'll adjust his game like several foreigners did who relatively struggled during their first seasons. There was a reason people wanted him over Carrick during the first half of the season.
He was absolutely knackered after a long world cup (again, only 8 players covered more distance than him in the WC) and a new year stepping up majorly from the Dutch league to the Premier League. Injuries and playing some very demanding roles (he was a solo midfielder for a huge chunk of the season) meant he resorted to default and went on auto-pilot. His natural game is to press so that's what he'd do constantly, sometimes naively and recklessly. He showed a capability to hold and cover positions and not follow the ball plenty in the first half of the season. It seems silly to me that people think he can't rediscover that after some time off.
he's 25 , new club , new league , played on a team that was far from settled , played at lb , played in the WC. fecker did well.
At the very least, Blind will be a fantastic squad player to have, who can play two positions. But, if he develops as much as we hope he can, he could become a very important player for us, and a regular first XI player.
Either way, I'd be surprised if he doesn't spend the bulk of his career at United.
Either way, I'd be surprised if he doesn't spend the bulk of his career at United.
Indeed. He does not strike me as a moving man, think he'll be a fine addition to the squad for quite a few years.
If you think Blind can become a vital clog for United in midfield...then I think its time I write off everything you said about Depay!
So he was so knackered after the world cup that he went to auto pilot...That is some fantastic bs.
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Why did you delete your post @Attila ?
And why does it have to be bullshit? An extremely heavy world cup load, a lack of pre-season and then a fast start jumping from the Dutch league to the Premier League and from Ajax to Manchester United is massive. Then, he's had absolutely no rest, even post injury, with him being one of a few players that Van Gaal insisted on rushing back in to the first team whenever possible (other injuries always helped demand this).
He started to look tired physically, and I expect mentally too. Often tired and fatigued players start to lack concentration and focus, so instead start resorting to whatever they do best. Anyone who thinks that he spent the first half of the season pressing needlessly or recklessly are demonstrating revisionism because he didn't. He rarely got overturned, and would press at good moments with high success rates. Towards the end of the season, it seemed like pressing was his only option and teams were constantly able to get behind him.
And why does it have to be bullshit? An extremely heavy world cup load, a lack of pre-season and then a fast start jumping from the Dutch league to the Premier League and from Ajax to Manchester United is massive. Then, he's had absolutely no rest, even post injury, with him being one of a few players that Van Gaal insisted on rushing back in to the first team whenever possible (other injuries always helped demand this).
He started to look tired physically, and I expect mentally too. Often tired and fatigued players start to lack concentration and focus, so instead start resorting to whatever they do best. Anyone who thinks that he spent the first half of the season pressing needlessly or recklessly are demonstrating revisionism because he didn't. He rarely got overturned, and would press at good moments with high success rates. Towards the end of the season, it seemed like pressing was his only option and teams were constantly able to get behind him.
I deleted the post so I could put both quotes into one (like above)
Edit - You must've read my other post so you should've know that it was only deleted to condense the point into one post? Not sure why you had to point that out
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Out of curiosity, how much have you actually seen of Blind at Ajax? He's never been spectacular at things but he's got a footballing brain and a great pass in him. I certainly think he has potential to become a starter at 6 with his strong attributes, do I think he will? Not sure yet, but he has surprised me in the past so I'm willing to give a him a chance, especially after he's done well in his first year.
I don't rate him as highly as Memphis though. Him I can see reach a much higher peak and expect much more of, although that may take a while since he's younger.
When I started my response it wasn't there, just your reply to NL Max. You edited my bit in 5 minutes after the post was made.
Anyway, why would you only reply to that bit and not the rest. Atleast give me some points on why it's bs?
I've seen nothing of Blind at Ajax. I would much prefer you to be right and me wrong about him but right now he doesn't look anything like a starting midfielder for United. He looks so weak and slow and I just don't think he will be anything more than a squad player.
(I don't know why the text has went so small....sorry)
Sorry mate in that case!
I just don't think he is at the required quality for a United starter. He looks slow and very weak to me. First time I noticed it was the 5-3 defeat to Leicester and he hasn't filled me with confidence since then. Every time Carrick is injured I'm hoping that we have good luck because I know Blind won't be able to cover Carrick at all. Your argument about how he is tired from the world cup doesn't carry much weight for me because we have only had the league to compete in. If he can't handle that schedule then he will be hopeless when we are competing in Europe.
Also I did think he pressed needlessly at times so I guess my memory is a bit shit
Sorry mate in that case!
I just don't think he is at the required quality for a United starter. He looks slow and very weak to me. First time I noticed it was the 5-3 defeat to Leicester and he hasn't filled me with confidence since then. Every time Carrick is injured I'm hoping that we have good luck because I know Blind won't be able to cover Carrick at all. Your argument about how he is tired from the world cup doesn't carry much weight for me because we have only had the league to compete in. If he can't handle that schedule then he will be hopeless when we are competing in Europe.
Also I did think he pressed needlessly at times so I guess my memory is a bit shit
A lot of midfielders have lacked physical attributes and have made for it in other areas. His tackling and interception numbers show he has good technique in doing it so that's not an issue, and we know he's tidy with the ball at his feet. The one thing people almost always attributed to him in his first half of the season was his intelligence - and that's massive, and can more than make up for physical deficiencies. For his tackling and interceptions to be at the number they are, surely he has to either position himself well most of the time, or be nippy? In which case, his speed and strength shouldn't be much of an issue if he can learn to not stray too far.
As for him replacing Carrick, are you one of the 10 people who always rated Carrick at the level you do right now? I've always been a fan, but there's no way I saw him having the influence and importance he had this season. People have levelled so many criticisms at Carrick over the years, many not too dissimilar to Blind, and they were often justified too. Put it this way, even with Blind's poor end to the season, Carrick's had worse for United. He spent years in the shadow of Scholes, with people saying he wasn't a worthy replacement and didn't look United quality.
I don't know about Blind's stats...all I can say is he was bullied again Leicester and Everton in a way that shouldn't be acceptable at United right now. The man has no future as a first team player and will be a squad player for sure imo.
Also about Carrick...yes I was gutted when we signed him instead of Ballack (I mean come on...Ballack vs Carrick in 2006!) but I was quickly won over by Carrick after his good and consistent performances for United. I can't say the same about Blind. I honestly don't think Blind will come close to Carrick in his career and he should consider himself very lucky to be at United.
Jesus many people are critical of Blind in here. I think he's a fantastic footballer and had a decent season. He was clearly suffering from fatigue in the second part of the season, played alot of games including a World Cup campaign. He reads the game really well, I was impressed seeing him live at Old Trafford. His positional awareness was something else. He's more than a utility player and deserves more credit. He will only get better and I can see him being an important player at the club in the next few years. The comparisons to John O Shea are absurd, Blind is a superior player. I like big John by the way but Blind has more to his game. He was threw in the deep end this year, how many positions did he have to play throughout the season? Technically excellent on the ball and reads the game as good as anyone. He was one of our better performers this season for sure. I wonder how many people in here actually watch the games at times.
yeah, like when Fergie himself. every offered another three-year extension, which led to some reaction on fanzines such as "Capable hands signing incapable feet" or the likes. every time he is praised, that is overpraising and overrating
This shows delusion, it's a very bizarre statement. Rooney couldnt make a fist vs league two sides in the FA Cup, therefore he should be only a squad player. If we follow you're reasoning..
Everyone played badly v Everton and im not sure how you can single Blind out against Leicester.
Goal 1 was down to the Evans getting beaten in the air.
Goal 2 was the worst bit of refereeing youll see in years, and nowhere near Blind.
Goal 3 Cambiasso, nothing to do with Blind.
Goal 4 was Mata getting caught on the ball.
Goal 5 foul on Blackett not given and penalty.
This was Michael Carrick before he joined United. Blind is simply not capable of much of this. The zippy passing, the ability to move out of danger, the default setting to pass forward. He even had the ability to drive past a player with the ball, which just highlights his natural comfort on the ball.
The frustration with Carrick was, in part, because he was so capable and wasn't showing it.
Blind's just not nearly as capable.
Carrick didn't magically develop the ability to pass between the lines, or the ability to get the ball out of his feet, or turn on the ball, or to pass with zip. It was already there. He developed his spacial awareness and reading of the game, but the tools were there. Bar a few runs that he wouldn't attempt any more, this isn't far off a Carrick performance of today.
The criticism of Blind isn't the same. Nice high diagonal pass over the top, and a nice cross on him. 7/10 left back. Better left back than midfielder.
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overall I don't think blind is first team quality. Those two games were just the first examples that came into my mind where he lost his positional sense and would get dragged out of position.
I don't think he is anywhere near carricks level ability right now or when we signed Carrick from Spurs. He just seems like a good utility man
I meant more about how carrick brings a calmness to the side and brings structure. I thought Blind started to run around too much in those games instead of doing what I expect from a carrick replacement and steadying the ship
Its still a ridiculous statement, that you dont rate him is fine, but to write a player off on 2 games is ridiculous. If you maintain that criteria, nobody bar Carrick should play for United. Even DDG has had poor matches.
I don't mean he was only poor in those games. I've thought he's been pretty average in most of the away games (not when playing at left back where he's been good)
Its true that he's been far less good in away matches, but our whole squad is tbf, the likes of Mata have the same too. Our only away beasts have been ddg, smalling, young, they've been good away consistently. Rooney for example has only scored like twice in away games since March 2014.
wasn't carrick bullied a lot , just last yr v relegation fodder fulham he ducked out of a challenge and fulham equalised. didn't carrick lose an aerial duel v BM for the goal just before the half. he did continue to play for the sid didn't he? IMO carrick is not the hardest man ever to play in our midf.
Still, If Blind is our second DM after Carrick for next season...I will be so disappointed. He's just so average at DM but is a great second LB.
His passing his so cautious and sideways most of the time. Nothing like Carrick really
Statistics show that he actually passes forwards quite a lot and he has more assists and key passes than Carrick, Stats arent 100% exact but it seems you're quite wrong.
And Blind not even good enough at 2nd CVM, name a team in the BPL who'se 2nd DM was better than Blind this season, you"re going a bit over the top. Besides that, Blind has actually been better than Shaw at LB, who has had like 3 matches where he actually contributed something offensively
Man I don't care what the stats are...I'm just judging by what I've watched and he's a very conservative passer. Always looking for the safe option.
The stats are facts, I think you're basing something on your own fantasy, perception, which would make it unreliable. It's just like saying I dont think Neymar is a goalthreat, even though he's scored 38 this season.