This I agree with.
Playing a game, claiming to enjoy it, then taking advantage of something like this is pretty low. I'm not even refunding, and I'm not playing it at the moment until they at least fix the fecking AI to even 20 year ago's level
Gaming Cyberpunk 2077 (PC, PS4/5, Xbox One)
- Thread starter DWelbz19
- Start date
This I agree with.
Playing a game, claiming to enjoy it, then taking advantage of something like this is pretty low. I'm not even refunding, and I'm not playing it at the moment until they at least fix the fecking AI to even 20 year ago's level
So realistically, what would have been the correct and proper timeframe to release this game in its optimal state for all platforms?
Started it up today on the PS4. Played for about 15 mins and had the same bug twice. Wouldn’t let me change what dialogue option I wanted to choose. A simple reload fixes it but frustrating already. From the little I’ve seen it’s beautiful though. On next gen when they’ve updated it a bit it should be a cracking game.
I would say one more delay until March/April 2021 would’ve had the game released in an acceptable state. Then they could’ve gradually improved the game over time without the backlash.
Given that's 4-5 months from when it was released, and the general state of the base console versions, do you think that would have been enough time to bring them up to par? I get that tweaks and improvements to the latest consoles, and especially the PC could be implemented in that time, but the base consoles? There seems to be so much wrong there, I just wonder how long it would take to make them fully playable (not only graphically enhanced or brought up to par).
No. in reality it needed another year at least and that's with dedicated teams. Even on PC.
As for features and to get the gameplay up to scratch, how long is a piece of string? But to get even some of the stuff they promised (individual NPC behaviour, much more in depth customisation that actually means something, car customisation) and not to mention fixing the basic gameplay issues, we are talking twice that if I'm being conservative. At this point I'll settle for decent AI and performance by the summer, but I don't even hold that much hope out tbh.
4-5 months could have been enough to eliminate the major bugs and to make the game stable (so that it doesn't crash regularly on consoles). It wouldn't have been enough to make it live up to the hype, sure, but it would have been enough time to avoid the shitstorm that's happening now.
Hey, back in 1997, Blizzard's lead programmer gutted and re-wrote the Warcraft 2 engine for Starcraft in 2 months. Games are slightly more complex these days, sure, but 4-5 months is still a lot of time if all we're talking about is performance improvement and bug fixing.
He did say optimal state. Nah, there's no chance this game is made stable enough across all platforms in 4 months, there's just too much they've had to butcher which has largely caused the worst of the bugs. It clearly needs more than standard bug hunting, it's deeper than that. I mean look at the updates, they are introducing lots of new bugs whilst "fixing" (plastering over more like) the old ones in their haste. That often happens, but not to this level.
But it's all theoretical anyway, it all depends on whether or not the plan is to actually bring it up to scratch or merely patch it up enough to at least sell again on the consoles. Either way, it won't be fully sorted by April imo.
Yeah probably not actually. The police wanted system is broken as well and spawns police right in front of you. Something like that needs a lot of work.
Yeah, those poor corporations.
Regardless of its a corporation, a video game producer, or a small independent business it's my opinion that if you've 'thoroughly enjoyed' something you shouldn't then try to stiff them. Guess I'm just naïve.
2077.
Was thinking along these lines, but given their window to capitalise off it as a multi-platform release, before the great migration starts some time next year, they essentially ran out of time due to the release of the new consoles, right? There was no out for them within the time constraints as all the disgruntled base console owners would not take kindly to a staggered release, whilst those with the more powerful machines would be dialling up the pressure for an ASAP distribution.
Is it fair to say the problems for this game occurred some years ago, and whilst we see the culmination of that in the now, the reality has become clear enough to state the time constraints were always going to get the better of them unless they added more personnel to work on it way back when?
Yea, I thought so - it needs more than a few layers of paint as it's a bug-addled mess on those platforms.
Boom!
@Fortitude the core gameplay should stay the same. As there’s too much to do to change all that. First they got to make sure it runs right on the four old gen consoles and then get a next gen patch out. As well as eliminate as many bugs as they can. Get DLC and Multiplayer out.
The core team also has to start moving onto new projects and they also doing a free Witcher 3 upgrade. So it will probably take them a year to get the majority of issues sorted.
I do think it is cheeky asking for a refund if you enjoyed it and finished it. It is like Elvis popping into a Indian restaurant, ordering his usual Scampi and chips, whilst everyone hated their meal and wants a refund, Elvis has enjoyed his Scampi and should be paying.
You could say feck them too for releasing a broken game. But at the end of the day CDPR have investors to please, so they’d get rid of staff if the sales do not meet expectations. I know there was a metacritic bonus, which was scrapped. But there’s probably a sales bonus too.
Someone like @Revan has a valid case to refund because the bugs made the game unplayable for him.
Oh well, that seems to be as likely to happen as me getting a present for Santa. CDPR are cnuts of highest order, they aren't even replying to claims for return.
I guess the refund will be by torrenting the Witcher 4.
The core gameplay most certainly shouldn't stay the same, none of the actual dev team themselves would want that, but it certainly will.
It will get a plaster, some of the worst bugs will be patched over (likely never completely fixed) and as I've said they'll support it to DLC and instead of drastically changing the current gameplay (bar maybe working the AI to acceptable levels) maybe introduce a new feature or two to take the eyes of the rest.
I also expect content updates in the meantime that promise more than they'll practically give (skins, weapons, perhaps even get the car features working). That'll be enough for most people, it'll never be true to the vision now, but it can still be a decent game and hopefully some kind of reminder down the road that they really shouldn't keep hyping up a game they knew at least 18months ago when they started aggressively stripping features wouldn't even be half what they planned. (Who am I kidding on that last point!).
CDPR as a development company deserve an out from this and a chance. As for the management and corp side...well...it's a shame we can't practically split them though. Hence why I personally won't be refunding, even though I won't be playing it again for at least a few more "fixes" yet.
It will get a plaster, some of the worst bugs will be patched over (likely never completely fixed) and as I've said they'll support it to DLC and instead of drastically changing the current gameplay (bar maybe working the AI to acceptable levels) maybe introduce a new feature or two to take the eyes of the rest.
I also expect content updates in the meantime that promise more than they'll practically give (skins, weapons, perhaps even get the car features working). That'll be enough for most people, it'll never be true to the vision now, but it can still be a decent game and hopefully some kind of reminder down the road that they really shouldn't keep hyping up a game they knew at least 18months ago when they started aggressively stripping features wouldn't even be half what they planned. (Who am I kidding on that last point!).
CDPR as a development company deserve an out from this and a chance. As for the management and corp side...well...it's a shame we can't practically split them though. Hence why I personally won't be refunding, even though I won't be playing it again for at least a few more "fixes" yet.
I think it'd take 4-5 months just to get it to the level of a regular ropy release. If you care about getting the best experience possible dont even look at it for 6 months imo. I dont think it'll ever work especially well on PS4 or equivalent, less buggy but the performance is always going to be terrible in parts.
If they were ambitious they'd sort out the wider issues (ai, shallow placeholder systems) in a sequel but i'm not that optimistic they'll even do that, let alone make any significant changes in this game.
The wanted system and police are particularly terrible. If they reworked that it'd buy some goodwill and interest in future games from me. But theres a thousand other parts that need looking at.
that's proper terrible.
This I agree with.
Playing a game, claiming to enjoy it, then taking advantage of something like this is pretty low. I'm not even refunding, and I'm not playing it at the moment until they at least fix the fecking AI to even 20 year ago's level
What the feck am I reading? Corporation releases a broken game and does its absolute best to hide the condition of the game in order to trick people into purchasing, after years of generating hype and making absolute bullshit promises that were not even close to being delivered on, and you guys think it’s low to get a refund.
pretty much this. They’re absolutely cnuts
If the game was unplayable or you didn't like it then fine, go right ahead. The poster in question pretty much finished it and claims they enjoyed the experience, so yes it would be low in that instance.
If it's that's bad then you shouldn't be spending time enjoying it.
Eye for an eye.
They released the game and knew well it was in a sorry state and cashed in. Don't feel any guilt about enjoying the game and cashing out on these people.
Stop sucking billionaire cock.
They released the game and knew well it was in a sorry state and cashed in. Don't feel any guilt about enjoying the game and cashing out on these people.
Stop sucking billionaire cock.
Oh if only you guys could actually read before getting so angry eh? You know, just a little bit of context before jumping to the most simplistic and obvious conclusion
I've made my thoughts on both the "corp" side and people rightfully getting refunds clear.
In any case, it's not the "corp" or "billionaires" who will be suffering. Heads out of arses lads.
I requested a refund
I’m tired of the crashes and can’t help shake the feeling I’m playing a inferior game to what will be released next year with the ps5 patch.
I’m tired of the crashes and can’t help shake the feeling I’m playing a inferior game to what will be released next year with the ps5 patch.
They will be suffering as the stock price has plummeted and their reputation is in tatters. This after forcing their employees into overtime last month to try and get the game finished.Oh if only you guys could actually read before getting so angry eh? You know, just a little bit of context before jumping to the most simplistic and obvious conclusion
I've made my thoughts on both the "corp" side and people rightfully getting refunds clear.
In any case, it's not the "corp" or "billionaires" who will be suffering. Heads out of arses lads.
I feel sorry for the devs working on the game as they’ll no doubt be as pissed as anybody else but to release the game on PS4 and XBOX One in that state is an absolute joke and they deserve everything coming their way. They knew the game was broken and in no fit state for release but they released it anyway hoping consumers would just accept it and wait for patches.
I’d imagine most who complete it and enjoy it won’t request a refund, but no issue with those who do.
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Wait people are actually defending them?
They certainly deserve defending over the likes of EA and Ubisoft. For one thing they actually make good games with new ideas. No micro transactions or live service either. They deserve criticism for the release but wanting the company to burn for that is ridiculous and will ultimately cost gamers in the future.
Does anyone want them to burn? I haven’t read all the posts here so can only speak for myself, but I think people are well within their right to get a refund especially after the level of deception shown.
I agree, like Bethesda used to be they deserve the chance to put this right, unlike Bethesda who released Fallout 76 hoping that the public would be as forgiving for the bugs as they were on fallout 3, Skyrim, Fallout 4 CDPR have history in getting a game right in time (the Witcher 3 for instance). Unlike EA who hardly seem to get push back for releasing FIFA legacy editions. CDPR has stated also that non expansion DLC would also be free (long before the game was released actually)
I am sure all agree, but I know I wouldn't get a refund after playing and completing a game I really enjoyed which some people in here have said they will do. That's all people are saying isn't a great thing to do.
I’m in agreement with others here. If you put in 80 hours and enjoy the game in its current state (like I and many others have here) I don’t think you should be going and refunding. I think it’s abolsutely fair game if you have this on past gen consoles and it’s not running acceptably then sure go and refund. Its not about sucking up to corporations or “sucking billionaires dicks” as was stated above, it’s about supporting good game developers who make some exceptional games.
Exactly the deception by CDPR is the issue and deserves the criticism. Make no mistake though, this isn’t even in the same level of the anti consumerism seen in games such as Fallout 76, Anthem, Godfall, Avengers, Fifa year on year and the last few AC games which all feature huge catelogues of micro transactions. I’d still back CDPR to get Cyberpunk into a place where it’s viewed as a top top game.
Yeah I loathe micro transactions. Hope you’re right because the game looks like it could be great. An important lesson learned hopefully.
For what it’s worth I’ve nearly finished the game on 80 hours and I’ve never played a game like this where I’m now itching to play a second play through even before I’ve fully finished the first. It’s a quality game let down badly in afew key areas. I will likely wait for playthrough 2 down the line though just to see if they can improve it further.
If a product is defective, broken, buggy and was sold with the deliberate concealment of these issues then I fail to see the issue with refunding, regardless of the fun you've had.
I bought a pair of new walking boots, very comfy, very nice, and not cheap, that took me on a long joyous trek. At the end however, when I took them off I noticed the heel on one of them was beginning to split and the stitching was coming loose in several places. All this after less than 10 miles. I would have been a fool not to take them back for a refund despite the pleasure they had provided over those 8 or 9 hours.
If you bought the product expecting all of the broken shit above then sure it's a bit of a cheek to then refund it, or if you bought it with the intention of refunding it later. But refunding faulty/not as advertised products is basic sales of goods and services law. You are not beholden to these companies no matter how goddamn hardcore of a gamer you are. You are a customer not their friends.
I bought a pair of new walking boots, very comfy, very nice, and not cheap, that took me on a long joyous trek. At the end however, when I took them off I noticed the heel on one of them was beginning to split and the stitching was coming loose in several places. All this after less than 10 miles. I would have been a fool not to take them back for a refund despite the pleasure they had provided over those 8 or 9 hours.
If you bought the product expecting all of the broken shit above then sure it's a bit of a cheek to then refund it, or if you bought it with the intention of refunding it later. But refunding faulty/not as advertised products is basic sales of goods and services law. You are not beholden to these companies no matter how goddamn hardcore of a gamer you are. You are a customer not their friends.
I would argue that's a bit of a fake comparison though as the only reason for a game existing is the "fun". If you've enjoyed it you will put it away and possibly never play it again (even on bug free games) or if you do it will be because you really rated it. If you've completed it and loved the experience you've basically played as intended in terms of the money you supplied.
I agree about the base consoles in that I think it is defective and mis-sold, but I doubt many of people on those consoles will be playing all the way through at the moment. In that case it's refund, wait or knowingly play through the issues.
I think the whole Cyperpunk element is lost on some.
As a kid I would sometimes buy a game on Friday stay up all weekend to finish it and then get a refund after school on Monday. The mess of Cyperpunk has offered the chance to basically get the game for free(Getting a refund is a no brainer imo).
Though they are selling you a product and not your emotional experience to the product. If you buy a perfectly working game for all intents and purposes, and just happen to have a miserable time finishing it I don't think you should be able to get a refund simply because it's not your bag. Same with a movie ticket or music album. A faulty projector or a skipping cd should be able to get a refund.
Why are you telling me things I've already said?
Again, actually read my posts. I'm the last fecking person to defend corps, my god it's like you lot just want to jump on everyone together and don't understand context
No. People aren't criticising the refunds, it's rightly so. What got the discussion going was someone saying they really enjoyed the game and yet want to do the refund thing anyway. It's a grey area at least.
Then a few, like always, decided that was some of us sticking up for billionaires or some other ridiculous nonsense which of course takes it all down a path based on something literally no one said. Standard for the caf
The glory days of the rebel consumer. We had two Our Prices in our town and people would buy a few cassettes in one, copy them to a blank tape on a portable stereo in the street, pop over the road then get a refund from the other store + more tapes. Rinse and repeat. The analogue Napster.