Sounds very much like the Luke Shaw experience.
Cucurella at Chelsea
- Thread starter SilentWitness
- Start date
Sounds very much like the Luke Shaw experience.
Yes, he was on loan to preston, and he did well. If you can't take that, then neither can you take that one good season from Cucurella, while ignoring the absolute garbage he has served before and after. The simple fact is, sometimes you have to put trust in the players. By your logic, no young players would ever break through because they have not shown enough than the trash one season wonder.
Also, Fernandez won't be the starter, it will be Dalot, who was consistently good last season, and can play LB just fine. He has simply been better than Cucurella overall in his career. PL proven means nothing considering he has been horrendous at Chelsea. We don't need this trash and will be a waste of money that will only help our competition.
Shaw dives? Dude wins most of this tackles with his ass.
Lost count how many times Martinez had to go across and cover his ass in the first 2 games.
You're making feck all sense comparing a loan to Preston to actually performing in the Premier League. Nightmare of a post that
The only senseless thing here is fixating on the one good outlier season and ignoring the shit served before and after. Or thinking that PL experience means feck all when plenty of examples prove otherwise.
Abomination of a post,
Shit season be delivered before the Brighton one? Can you tell me which one that is mate?
Name me examples of youth players having never played top football, do well on loan to a championship side and come back to play for a top side in Premier League. Then talk about abonoations of posts.
Reece James.
Right so the punt is Fernandez will be, beyong plausible doubt, Reece James quality.
The poster is talking bollocks anyway because Fernandez himself has a lot of work required in the defensive side of things anyway
Some guy thinks Fernandez is a more sure bet than Cucurella because the former had a loan at Preston.What are you even talking about?
I dont rate Cucurella highly because of his time at Chelsea but let's be clear, there is feck all to say Fernandez is better. Hes not proven, he is defensively very frail and Ten Hag being in the market shows he doesn't have high stock of him yet either.
Oh I’m not taking any sides in this argument. You both know Fernandez more than me to judge his quality. I was just saying it’s not impossible to go from a loan in the second division straight to being a good reliable player in the PL. Whether Fernandez can do it is another question.
No, it's not impossible. The over arching point is that it's a big punt. A much bigger punt than loaning in a player who has experience in the PL and has proven to do very well in an established and settled team.
A lof of people blindly ignore the credit of the idea just becuase they like shiny new toys that sound cool from pre season.
He was shit on some of his loans from Barcelona like at Eibar and was overall average. Still ignoring the more relevant Chelsea spell I see.
As for examples, there is Reece James, Mount, Kane from the top of my head.
And yeah, abomination of a post.
That's all fair enough, but seems a massive leap from that to what you were saying about how he must have to be Reece James level because somebody threw out an example of someone having a good Championship loan.
Cucurella is obviously the safer option of the two between him and Fernandez, but it's whether he'd be that much better to justify the loan fee and covering the (probably mental) wages Chelsea have put him on.
This should be a chance for Alvaro Fernandez to show what he's got. No point loaning him to La Liga or the Championship and loaning in someone else's dross.
I am not ignoring anything, you said before and after and just made things up. He was not shit or average, he was a good in Spain where his loan became permanent. He was really good at Brighton and then shite at Chelsea in a season where every player was shite at Chelsea.
Fernandez has very evident flaws of defending in his game, and you not being able to see or even refusing to accept that shows you pretty much haven't seen him.
Ten Hag isn't trusting him yet and that's for a reason. Even if Cucurella came, it doesn't put an end to Fernandez' career. Cucurella also showed flaws himself and they can compete for starting roles.
I have no idea why you're so against a loan. Fernandez is clearly needing to improve his game. Unlike the other players you named who were actually ready.
Did people really watch Eibar games?
He was nowhere near as good as he was at Brighton and was overall an okay young player, the same as Fernandez then. Yeah, every player was shit, including this clown and he still is.
Of course Fernandez has flaws, but so does Cucurella and one is not on stupid wages nor do we have to pay a loan fee to get. The only one who seems blinded is you, where you are ignoring Cucurella's flaws and performances but holding it against Fernandez.
Ten hag does not have to trust him to start, just trust him to be a back up to Dalot and wait for the injured players to come back and not waste money on this stupid deal. Malacia should be back soon as ten hag mentioned that Malacia was still a few weeks away at the start of the season.
Fernandez needs to improve his game, but so does Cucurella, so why spend money on a shit player instead of taking a chance on the player you have. Fernandez could be shit, so could Cucurella. We already have one on our books, the other will cost a loan fee and to cover his stupid wages. I am against this as we need that money to get another striker and a midfielder, and rather not waste it on a shit player.
Well yes, because for Brighton he was an absolute beast. That doesn't mean he was shit before though.
I'm holding it up to both, but recognizing that Cucurella has proven to be able to perform at the top level, so there is clearly something about him. Fernandez the jury is still out, and Ten Hag using a RB to go into the LB role is telling you everything about his faith in Fernandez as a player for the first team.
They both obviously need to improve, but with Cucurella we know he's got the goods for the Premier League, if he is coached out of the poor habits he made at Chelsea. His Brighton stint effectively carries more goodwill than what Fernandez has racked up.
The main point is we just need cover for Dalot for a handful of games, and we have Fernandez, who a number of PL teams want in their squads. Surely that is enough.
Also I have watched a lot of Fernandez and while he is definitely questionable as a defender (so is Cucurella!), he is a very good player. His technique and passing are excellent.
I don't think Ten Hag wants to rely on Dalot though. We can count as many bodies to cover as we want, but them being a viable extended choice is another matter.
Love a good Chelsea reject.
He was nothing special and like every young player had periods of poor performances there. It does not change that his Brighton season was an anomaly, nor that he is crap now.
A season of good performance means nothing, when the rest is average to shit. The jury is out on Cucurella as well and I would rather stick with Dalot and Fernandez than waste money on this transfer.
Nope, his Brighton stint is not worth much when he has been equally poor in the PL overall. By that same notion, Fernandez can be a good player if we help him develop into one as well. To me, PL proven is not worth anything and has been shown to be a useless metric to judge anything. The player has been largely average to shit and I would gladly stick with the players we have and use those funds elsewhere.
There is a difference to being "shit" and "nothing special". From what I read he was actually pretty good before he came to Brighton - unless you're an avid Getafe game viewer and can prove any different.
The jury is out on Fernandez and Dalot as a LB far more than it is on Cucurella. He's done a lot more in that department to prove himself than the latter two have, like it or lump it.
I also find it funny how he's had one superb season and one crap season, but you've decided the superb one must be the anomaly out the two
That too after literally making up what his stint was like in Spain before he joined.To you, PL proven is not worth anything. This shows the broken logic. It makes sense for superb talents or talents who have set their club alight on loan transfers, of which Fernandez is neither.
He was certainly nothing special, with his poor periods not being micro analyzed as they would be at big clubs. I did not watch him, but neither did you. In the end he was average, and there are many average players around that are labeled shit compared to the top.
The jury is out on Fernandez and Dalot as a LB far more than it is on Cucurella. He's done a lot more in that department to prove himself than the latter two have, like it or lump it.
I also find it funny how he's had one superb season and one crap season, but you've decided the superb one must be the anomaly out the two
Dalot has played LB quite a bit and done fine, he has shown that he can play RB and LB both very well. Cucurella had a higher high as a LB but that was limited to one season. Overall, I would take the current Dalot over the current Cucurella anyday. His one very good season being an anomaly is just a fact. He was largely average before Brighton and dog shit after. His Brighton form is not the norm that he has been showing regularly. It was literally the one odd season where he was very good.
No, the logic is fine because plenty of PL players have flopped and non PL players done well. Fernandez is a fine talent, he has his flaws but he is enough to provide back-up to Dalot until the injured players come back. Malacia was stated to be out for a few weeks and Shaw for two months. They will be back soon, which will make the Cucurella signing a waste of money.
The current Cucurella is shit and Chelsea fans are ecstatic that there is a club dumb enough to take this clown even on a loan, and give them money for it.
"He was shit before Brighton"
Followed by "He was nothing special"
Followed by "I did not watch him so he must have been average"
^An excellent depiction of the logic you've applied in this debate.
Ten Hag doesn't trust Dalot to play in his preferred position for an extended period, which says everything. He has actually also shown some absolutely horrific performances for us for extended periods too, just like Cucurella did. At his absolute best he was not better than Cucurella for Brighton, and he did not sustain it long enough either. He also had a few lengthy injuries, which makes him less reliable in that regard and he is right footed on top, which means its poor for the team balance if he's deployed left all the time.
You can cherry pick examples all you want - but at the end of the day 1) LB is a key position 2) Fernandez has not actually lit his loan club alight and he has very key flaws in defending, whilst 2) Cucurella or Henry or whoever it may be, are more proven quantities in the Premier League.
For a small loan fee, with our wage bill being pretty healthy right now, it makes all the sense in the world. Especially for managers who have a hard on for left footed LBs.
Also I don't think Malaica or Shaw are due back soon. Malacia has been injured since last season, he's probably not due back in training until at least a month.
As opposed to, he was great for Brighton, so must have been great all along. He was an average player, who is now shit.
Ten Hag needs to trust the players he has, and not waste more money on dross. ETH signings have not all been good, clearly the need for a good recruitment team is obvious. At their best, Dalot was about as good as Cucurella who whilst very good was nowhere near exceptional. Neither were at the level at some of the best. So, there is not much in that, and currently anyone would absolutely go with Dalot over Cucurella.
I am not cherry picking anything, 1) Which we have options for 2) Fernandez has key flaws in defending and was good on loan, and Cucurella has key flaws in defending as well, and has been abysmal for his new club 3) Proven quantities in PL is irrelevant and a useless metric by the simple fact that PL proven Cucurella has been shit at PL club Chelsea.
No, wasting money on this turd makes no sense no matter how much of a hard on the manager has for a left footed player.
It sounds like this loan deal is progressing. Getting money and weakening an EPL team is brilliant!!
Cucurella here trying to escape from his medical. He must not like the weather up north 
I never said he was great all along. You are again, making things up.
The only player you can argue we overpaid for and is not working out is Antony. Malacia, Eriksen, Casemiro, Martinez are proving their worth for the outlay spent.
You are cherry picking because you gave examples of far far more polished players who were able to make a tangible leap up tot he Premier League relative to Fernandez. Fernandez has huge flaws in defending, he has not yet proven himself to be capable of consistency in defensive prowess. Cucurella has, albeit it was in the season before last. So with Cucurella you know the player is there at the very least.
Also you're calling Cucurella a turd, just based off last season. That's just ill thought out all round.
Marc was also very good in La Liga. This idea that he’s had “one good season” is just simply a wrong take. It would be more accurate to say he had 2 very good seasons, one excellent season, and one bad to average season … playing out of position…on a team where everyone had a bad season.
If ETH thought Dalot was good enough at LB, you wouldn’t be in for Cucurella.
Ericksen was a free transfer but looks like he needs replacing himself, Casemiro is looking slow and lethargic, and Mount has also been disappointing and is now injured. There is plenty to question about his transfer decisions, apart from just Antony.
No, I am not cherry picking. In those examples of both, players who did well and players who also struggled on loan but played well in the PL. Yes, Fernandez has flaws, but so does this guy. And one anomaly of a season is worth nothing other than a unusual level which he never showed before or after. He did not even play as a LB the whole season and was moved around. And no, we clearly don't know the player we are getting. Chelsea thought so as well and now are regretting the transfer.
Let us end this here, clearly we are not going to agree on this. You think this is an okay transfer, I think it is a waste of money. IMO, if the injuries to Malacia and Shaw are not that bad, just stick with the options we have until those players return. If they are long term injuries, then get a better LB and stop looking at shit loan options.
He was average, and even in his Brighton season he was very good but not excellent, only scoring 1 and assisting 1. That is not enough to qualify as excellent. He has never been an excellent player nor a WC talent, and currently he is horrendously bad. Even in his best season, he played plenty as CB and WB in that season, so playing out of position is an odd excuse, he had no issue with doing it at Brighton. Brighton have upgraded on him with Estupinan fairly easily, which says it all. Clearly Brighton's system and well drilled side helped him, but he won't get that here either. So, if those are some of the excuses for being shit, he won't get much improvement here either on that part. This just looks like the same reactionary crap decisions we make all the time where we panic and try to sign some 'known quantity' signing which rarely works.
I hope we don't sign this guy, if our injuries are that serious then gambling on him regaining his Brighton form is not a good idea.
You won't sign a world class talent on loan. You want a back up for Shaw and malacia not good even when he was fit. So you looking for immediate solution and try to get cucurella on loan. Cucurella may be a good option for you given he is fit and immediately slot into your starting 11 as a left back.
For us if you got him on loan he will get play time showcase his talent and if perform well we will sell him to you or any other Spanish team for good money. That's all.
Malacia was better than Cucurella last season, and is overall a decent player. It depends of the severity of the injuries. If the injuries are that severe, then I would rather buy a new LB than looking as shit loan options. If they are not, then I would just use what we have currently until the injured players return, and use that money on some other areas like midfield or even another CF.
Of course it is a good deal for you, you don't have to play and pay him. You have better options than him, and he is currently a player you just want to get rid of. I hope we learned some lessons of making bad short term signings, but I doubt it.
Eriksen was a great deal for free. If nothing else he adds quality in depth. Casemiro was among our best performers last season, while this season he had a poor 1.5 games and was good for 1.5 games. Mount has only played two games. You're building a habit of evaluating players over close to nothing, the theme is clear.
You can't just try and excuse yourself out of a debate by saying Cucurellas best season was an anomaly but his worst season was not. The logic is so broken there, especially after you were called out for actually having no idea how Cucurella was prior to Brighton.
I agree to end this here. There's a reason ten hag doesn't trust either Fernandez or Dalot long term in their preferred positions.
The injuries to Shaw and Malacia are quite obviously bad. One likely out for months and the other has been crocked since end of last season.
We don't have the money for a top LB so we need to get creative. The move makes fine sense to me if it's negligible fee and just wages to cover (we have a healthy wage bill so there's no harm for a season).
Yes be leery of Chelsea fans here in general hyping one of their own for a transfer.
I wouldn’t criticise fans for backing their new players. Mudryk for example.
Sadly, they won’t always work out. Cucurella is really poor defensively but he seems terrified going forward now too. Hopefully for him, it’s confidence related and he can regain form whether at us or elsewhere.
I’d have sold him in the summer and kept Hall. That was a huge mistake for me.
He has never been goood defensively. Fernandez over him. No need to bring a player just to add to the numbers
Cucurella here trying to escape from his medical. He must not like the weather up north
Our midfield is really an open barn at this point. Sell ten Hag, sack Casemiro!