Is that the same Chelsea job where Frank Lampard was protected for months by the media long beyond the point where he was clearly unfit for the role?
Criticism is fine (and encouraged) but there are some criticisms thrown at Ole that don't make any sense
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Is that the same Chelsea job where Frank Lampard was protected for months by the media long beyond the point where he was clearly unfit for the role?
I did think hes joking rightNo I think he would get all the support he needed. A lucky manager winning trophies is the ideal manager.
agree with everything but he has to win trophies. He has this season for me to do that. I said that at the start of last season. He’s getting more than enough slack. He’s got little credit in the bank as he’s yet to find a consistent team. Not consistent enough to land a trophy and that’s the only kind of consistency that fans really care about. Unbeaten records with loads of draws for example is something Arsenal fans bleat on about. I don’t want that!
Otherwise he becomes just that manager we needed to steady the ship. His teams have slipped up so far on becoming more than that…
P.S it’s because of all the things you mentioned that I’m hoping he improves as a manager and is able to take the next step. Would much rather that than another guy comes in.
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Yet he was sacked when he was outside the top 4. Ole was backed in Jan and got Bruno in. Again shouting or protecting my media is one thing. Actual pressure comes when your boss is trigger happy, which is the case with Roman.
I'm speaking for myself. All those records and all the good squad and atmosphere he's built should not keep him in the job if he underperforms. We can't finish 5th without a trophy for example and say "look at the squad he built, the records, the atmosphere, let's keep him" .
Just saw the white text in the post though. Apologies
So you think a proper title challenge, a decent showing in the CL and a cup of any description is out of our reach this season with are current squad? Get a grip. No ones demanding he wins the lot but we need further progression from last season after the players he’s brought in.
About 2-3 seasons. If you want to do it properly, from the starting point we had. That's what I expected in the summer of 2019, and that's how it's turned out.
Tuchel of course does not face rebuilding a team. He took over a squad already very well suited to what he wanted to do.
And indeed, you don't get it. OGS' results have been good to very good, so there is not in fact any very clear reason why we'd think he is a defective manager, which you take for granted that he is. So far. Now he needs to continue doing what he's done so far, which is to deliver results that are equal to or better than the strength of the team he's got, which means a good deal more than last season.
Also, far too little attention is being paid by many to the wider challenges involved here, and the need for continuity in that regard. It's not just about the coaching of the team, it's about the quality of the whole organisation, and having that on a track where there's a clear sense of where we are heading and how things are done, what we are and what we aren't.
Chelsea has that in place, pretty much. They're not particularly wedded to a particular style of play, but they know exactly who they are and how they operate, they have quality everywhere in the organisation and the ethos all of that enables, when coupled to their purchasing power, is Win Now by Whatever Means. They're positively built to absorb a serial row of high-performing short-termers as managers. It's what they've always done, since Abramovitch.
Liverpool has that in place too, certainly. City, most of all. Although they are both now built to a certain style, heavily tied to their present manager. They'll face their challenges when they have to change next. Will they stick broadly to the style and try to find a manager who can implement that, or will they move away from it and allow the next manager to redefine things? In any case, it'll be a challenge. But they have solid organisations to provide a grounding for that transition, and a clear and functioning model of how they do things, beyond on-pitch style.
But we were a complete, fecking shambles in these respects when Ole took over. 3 different managers with wildly varying approaches to more or less everything, piled on top of 25 years of consistent success through a philosophy that was different from that again. All of that had to be fixed, drawn together, re-establishing some sense of coherence and workability to how we did recruitment, scouting, contracts, talent development, personnel management, physical fitness, everything. That's what "improving club culture" means, it's not just a buzzword. Crucially, the club chose to draw on the SAF years in setting the overall tone of that course, and just as Chelsea, Liverpool and City have made choices that impact on their freedom of choice when it comes to managers, so have we. Above all, when you've realised that you can't allow the whole organisation to zigzag every two years and that there's got to be a foundation in place that provides continuity beyond the whims of every manager, you can ill afford to just throw that out now. For Chelsea this is not a problem, they're built for it and Marina runs things in any case, but for us it is.
When you think about it, the most basic characteristic of the SAF period is the continuity. That was of course because SAF was a fantastic manager and so never got sacked, but many of the benefits were strongly connected not just to what SAF provided, but to the fact that he provided them for so long. The whole aura of invincibility, the "magic" - "theatre of dreams", the fear factor, the insane expectations of what sort of ambition, confidence and ability to handle pressure you expect from a Man Utd player, even the active embracing of that pressure as something you earned as a result of putting on that shirt, like you're some sort of insane freak that feeds on the very energy that crushes ordinary mortals - none of that could be created by anything any team could do for half a decade or 6-7 seasons, it's only possible when you've delivered great things in a fairly similar way for as long as most people can remember.
Can we hope to find another manager who lead us to success for two decades and if so, is OGS that manager? Probably not, but though the attempt to rekindle those elements of magic and self-belief is inevitably to some extent a form of smoke and mirrors, that can actually work, when the link to the recent past is still there. It makes sense. If the players believe in it, it's effectively real. Identity is belief, and identity actually does impact on results. I think the line drawn to the SAF period in terms of style of play is wise - front-foot football, based on the ability to outscore and outwork anyone and the conviction that others fear us, not we them. Pretty vague, and really more of a psychological approach than a style of play. As such, it can accomodate a number of different systems, but crucially it cannot accomodate any style of play, and also not any type of manager. It is in most respects more or less the exact opposite of Mourinho's approach for example. Also incompatible with Moyes and LVG.
My point here is that trying to link what is being built to what we were under SAF, forces us to a bigger emphasis on continuity than many other top clubs. It also limits the sort of managers we should be looking for, if we nevertheless should end up sacking Ole. We are not the sort of club who can afford to just hire anyone who seems to be good at getting the most out of his players, in whatever way. Doing that was what got us into trouble in the first place, and if we do that now, we throw away what's been built over the last few years, throughout the organisation. If OGS has to be replaced, it's got to be by someone who can continue to build on the same organisation-wide approach, and who is a credible potential long-term solution. In short, everything that Antonio Conte, for example, isn't.
I think though that one of the things we ought to do as a part of developing the organisation is to reduce the role of the Manager. If we want to entrench a capacity for continuity and a clear identity, and also increase our field of choice when it comes to managers, then more of that has to be embedded elsewhere in the organisation than the manager's office. In that regard, we need to move away from the legacy of the SAF years. I know he didn't have unlimited power either, and that many astute people now gone were crucial to what we achieved in that period. But I do think we need to ensure that more key things are more removed from the managers remit, in the long run. It's crazy, for instance, that Mourinho had the freedom to do what he did to the academy during his tenure. It should never have been allowed to happen, and the fact it did shows we did not have either the right structures in place or a sufficient unity of approach. (Or the right manager, but that's another discussion).
"But we still need a DM," people say.
Few seriously advocate getting rid of him tomorrow but the idea that we shouldn't be expected to compete with Liverpool or City and that anything that exceeds "terrible" is good enough, isn't an argument that looks as good as people who make it thinks it does. Much of that logic often seems to have origins in this idea that Ferguson is an example that all you need to do is just pull an ex-pro from a bus stop somewhere, give them time and they'll win trophies. Ferguson got time because he was proven, established and he was tackling the issues of the club head on. And he was ruthless with it, with his staff, his players, his board, the fans and the media would not escape his wrath. I don't get how so many fans take away from that era is to let standards drop so far, it'd prompt Roy Keane to dig his own grave just so he could climb in and roll over in it.
But hey ho, we're not yet terrible, so what more do we want?
But hey ho, we're not yet terrible, so what more do we want?
I don't think anyone is denying the positives of Ole's tenure. Compared to where we were under Moyes, van Gaal and Mourinho it's night and day. The squad seems happy and we have a solid set of players that gel with each other. We still have holes in the squad, but I trust Ole with filling them next summer. No-one is questioning his man management or his transfer dealings. He's well beyond a passing grade in that respect, at least for me. That being said, he still isn't good enough. We're at the point where the strength of the team says we should realistically be able to challenge for every trophy out there, and I feel like it's not going to happen under Ole, because he simply isn't a good enough manager to come out on top against Tuchel, Klopp and Pep in the league, or against the host of top managers elsewhere in Europe in the Champions League. Sure, he can finish ahead of some of them, but to win trophies you need to beat all of them. I simply don't feel confident that he ever can.
My heart wants Ole to manage us forever. I love him to bits and think he's done a phenomenal job. I sincerely hope that he succeeds and starts winning trophies regularly. I will also keep supporting him as long as he's our manager.
My head says that we need to get a manager with more tactical ability if we want to take the next step and become genuine challengers for league and CL wins. It's been almost three years of constant improvements overall, but I'm not seeing enough of it in how we play on the field, and because of that I fear we're coming towards the point where we' reach the limit for how far Ole can take us, and sadly I don't think it'll be far enough. There will be a point where we'll have to ask some tough questions about how we get to where we need to get.
For me it’s still about progress. I know the media narrative is now rebuild complete but it isn’t. There’s still another window until we have a young sustainable squad capable of winning every year and we go from needing major signings every summer to just the odd tweak. If you keep improving logic says eventually trophies follow. So it’s about context. And that works both ways. If we finish 4th with 74 points yet win an FA Cup then I’d have serious doubts about keeping him - on the other hand if we finish 4th with 85 points but no trophy I’ll be giving him another window.
The other issue which gets glossed over is who replaces him. Before Ole relative to our resources we were the most incompetent club on the planet. It wasn’t just the managers we hired and players we signed but the even the players let go or failed to sign made zero sense. Since Ole everything we do seems at least logical again. Even players we miss out on are the right profile and fit. Conte is undoubtedly a far better manager than Ole in 99.9% of situations but this idea that you can just remove Ole and plop conte there and we’ll become a winning machine AND KEEP all the great elements of what Ole brings is just fantasy. That’s not how it works. We’ve seen this with Jose already. We’re heading in the right direction for the first time since SAF and now we’re very close I don’t get why so many want to just rip everything up and start over.
Progress has to mean progress. Being the nearest side to a team that wins the league by a cantor i.e. the equivalent of winning football's 'tallest dwarf' competition is a strange kind of progress. Progress has to look like challenging this season. He's been here long enough and had enough time to put his own stamp on the team in terms of signings and tactics for us to be at least looking like a side moulded in his image. We should be looking like a OGS side, whatever one of those looks likes. My fear is we'll get to the end of this season and we'll have no better idea as to what that is than we do now.
1 defeat shouldn’t make us take such an extreme view of Ole.We might still qualify from this group…Let’s judge Ole at the end of this season..
I don't have the heart to blame Lingard for anything. It's been abundantly clear for ages that he's nowhere near the level required at Manchester United. That he keeps getting picked is not his fault.
Lingard is a footballer for the English national team. He should be relied upon to not make that kind of pass.
I don't really mind that Ole is getting flak, I'm just genuinely amused that the players get 0 share of it.
Until we sign two proper center midfielders instead of McFred/Matic we are doomed with that 4-2-3-1 formation.
I'm talking two midfielders like Jorginho, Kovacic, Fabinho, Ndidi, Kante, Wijinaldum, Tielemans, Rice(don't rate highly bit better than what we have), Modric, kimmech, Bellingham, Henderson etc
If Ole switches to 4-3-3 with Pogba, Bruno, van de beek either it could possibly work but he doesn't seem to have the balls to do that.
I really thing just a RB and one or two central mdofeilders short of a world class side.
I'm talking two midfielders like Jorginho, Kovacic, Fabinho, Ndidi, Kante, Wijinaldum, Tielemans, Rice(don't rate highly bit better than what we have), Modric, kimmech, Bellingham, Henderson etc
If Ole switches to 4-3-3 with Pogba, Bruno, van de beek either it could possibly work but he doesn't seem to have the balls to do that.
I really thing just a RB and one or two central mdofeilders short of a world class side.
Lingard made a mistake, not Ole, with their winner. The issue is that we completely folded when we were down to 10 men and played with a lack of courage or conviction, we were playing Young Boys not an elite European giant in a cauldron of a stadium. It's also an issue that we are once again playing unconvincing football for long spells of games.
We've had three years of Ole and don't seem any closer to having a dominant side that controls games than when he first took the job.
We've had three years of Ole and don't seem any closer to having a dominant side that controls games than when he first took the job.
A fair question, and happy to oblige. Text in bold beneath is yours, from the post I responded to.
With Ole is boils down to just not being good enough for a club like United.
This is the big one, really. On what basis do you think that can be said as if it was a fact? As far as I can see, the only valid answer to whether he is or isn't is provided by the results he achieves. And I don't see that those results yields that conclusion. He's done as good as or better than I for one thought would be reasonable to expect in both of the past two seasons. We did not by any stretch of imagination go into 2019/20 with a top team, or even one we could reasonably expect to make top 4. And in most respects, we did better in 20/21 than I expected ahead of the season too. In short - we're on course. You may disagree and there may be serious arguments that could be made for an opposing case, but I don't think it's reasonable to simply state that he's not good enough for United.
I like to counter argument threads like this with a simple question.
If Ole didn't have an affiliation with the club and delivered the results/performances he has to date, would the fan base accept it?
Taking it for granted what the answer to that question would be. But it isn't, on the contrary. I think any manager who achieved what OGS has achieved, both on and off the pitch, would and should have the support of the fan base.
On the basis the LVG and Jose were more successful but we still didn't think they were right.
That's actually pretty debatable. They won cups, but Ole's overall record and PL record is better. Even more, while LvG took over a club in trouble and left it in limbo, and Mourinho took over a club in limbo and left it in deep crisis, OGS took over a club in deep crisis and brought it to by far the best place it's been since SAF, both on and off the pitch. Trophies are what it's ultimately all about, but it's also a question of which trophies, and of having a bit of a longer term perspective on them. For a club like MU, what should matter is the PL and CL. The thing for me is getting back to where we're seriously competing for those, which LvG and Mourinho never did. We are closer now to that I think that at any point since SAF. We can compare the tallies when OGS is no longer manager, but for now I'd much rather have steady progress towards PL competetiveness than an FA cup or even a EL.
Ole also now has a far better squad than both of them.
Rather importantly, he now also has a better squad than he had in the past two seasons. And you are dismissing him as a not good enough manager, and comparing him with LvG and Mourinho, on the strength what he did not achieve with those past squads.
I'm not saying Ole isn't a good manager, but Manchester United is a club that should have an elite manager, not settle for 'good'. We look round every position in our squad and want to improve the weaknesses, whether that be CDM, RW or CB.
Which just amounts to saying "we shouldn't make do with something that is merely good when we could have something even better". But the problem remains that this simple conclusion results from oversimplifying the assumptions it is based on. Firstly, as already mentioned, that OGS is at most "not not good". Secondly, that managers can be neatly divided into qualitative categories in the same way as players, on the basis of reputation and experience. Thirdly, the assumption that a more reputable and proven manager - like, you know, Jose Mourinho or LcG - would necessarily deliver better results. All three are highly questionable, and consequently so is your line of reasoning.
Our biggest weakness at present is the management.
That's the thing we're supposed to be discussing, but rather than discuss it, you just take the answer for granted.
If you give Pep, Klopp or Tuchel our squad I honestly think we are favourites for the league.
A deeply problematic claim, actually. Klopp and Pep both need squads tailored to their systems of play. I'm not that sure the fit would necessarily be a great one for either of them. The most direct result of hiring either would be that it would create a need for extensive personnel changes.
Ole once said he only wants the best for the club. The fact is, 'he' isn't the best for the club, only the best to serve as the Glazers shield.
I take it that I don't have to point out how this is taking rather too much for granted?
I appreciate and respect your attitude btw, and the above is meant to be clear, not mean.
We look no closer to even having a definitive style of play. It's genuinely as if the tactic is to hope our XI outplays theirs. Each performance (good bad or indifferent) feels so disparate to what we did the week before and what we'll do the week after. This is the biggest problem that runs underneath a lot of criticism of the manager. It isn't that people don't want to see progress, it's they can't. We do not look like a side coached to play a certain style of football. Top sides lose, top sides play badly. But generally top sides have an identity. We genuinely have no identity on the pitch at all. Many of us hoped these are the foundations he would have been laying during his time at the club but unless I'm missing something, I don't see it.
Are we a pressing side? Are we a counter-attacking side? Do we move the ball quickly or slowly? Do we focus attacks through the middle? Do we prefer to exploit the flanks? Do we step up, do we sit deep?
Of course this isn't football manager and you'll need to adapt to suit circumstance pragmatically but at some point pragmatism begins to look like having no real idea beyond hoping our (usually) superior set of players win out on the day. Nobody has a clue how an OGS side sets out to play.
A fair question, and happy to oblige. Text in bold beneath is yours, from the post I responded to.
With Ole is boils down to just not being good enough for a club like United.
This is the big one, really. On what basis do you think that can be said as if it was a fact? As far as I can see, the only valid answer to whether he is or isn't is provided by the results he achieves. And I don't see that those results yields that conclusion. He's done as good as or better than I for one thought would be reasonable to expect in both of the past two seasons. We did not by any stretch of imagination go into 2019/20 with a top team, or even one we could reasonably expect to make top 4. And in most respects, we did better in 20/21 than I expected ahead of the season too. In short - we're on course. You may disagree and there may be serious arguments that could be made for an opposing case, but I don't think it's reasonable to simply state that he's not good enough for United.
I like to counter argument threads like this with a simple question.
If Ole didn't have an affiliation with the club and delivered the results/performances he has to date, would the fan base accept it?
Taking it for granted what the answer to that question would be. But it isn't, on the contrary. I think any manager who achieved what OGS has achieved, both on and off the pitch, would and should have the support of the fan base.
On the basis the LVG and Jose were more successful but we still didn't think they were right.
That's actually pretty debatable. They won cups, but Ole's overall record and PL record is better. Even more, while LvG took over a club in trouble and left it in limbo, and Mourinho took over a club in limbo and left it in deep crisis, OGS took over a club in deep crisis and brought it to by far the best place it's been since SAF, both on and off the pitch. Trophies are what it's ultimately all about, but it's also a question of which trophies, and of having a bit of a longer term perspective on them. For a club like MU, what should matter is the PL and CL. The thing for me is getting back to where we're seriously competing for those, which LvG and Mourinho never did. We are closer now to that I think that at any point since SAF. We can compare the tallies when OGS is no longer manager, but for now I'd much rather have steady progress towards PL competetiveness than an FA cup or even a EL.
Ole also now has a far better squad than both of them.
Rather importantly, he now also has a better squad than he had in the past two seasons. And you are dismissing him as a not good enough manager, and comparing him with LvG and Mourinho, on the strength what he did not achieve with those past squads.
I'm not saying Ole isn't a good manager, but Manchester United is a club that should have an elite manager, not settle for 'good'. We look round every position in our squad and want to improve the weaknesses, whether that be CDM, RW or CB.
Which just amounts to saying "we shouldn't make do with something that is merely good when we could have something even better". But the problem remains that this simple conclusion results from oversimplifying the assumptions it is based on. Firstly, as already mentioned, that OGS is at most "not not good". Secondly, that managers can be neatly divided into qualitative categories in the same way as players, on the basis of reputation and experience. Thirdly, the assumption that a more reputable and proven manager - like, you know, Jose Mourinho or LcG - would necessarily deliver better results. All three are highly questionable, and consequently so is your line of reasoning.
Our biggest weakness at present is the management.
That's the thing we're supposed to be discussing, but rather than discuss it, you just take the answer for granted.
If you give Pep, Klopp or Tuchel our squad I honestly think we are favourites for the league.
A deeply problematic claim, actually. Klopp and Pep both need squads tailored to their systems of play. I'm not that sure the fit would necessarily be a great one for either of them. The most direct result of hiring either would be that it would create a need for extensive personnel changes.
Ole once said he only wants the best for the club. The fact is, 'he' isn't the best for the club, only the best to serve as the Glazers shield.
I take it that I don't have to point out how this is taking rather too much for granted?
I appreciate and respect your attitude btw, and the above is meant to be clear, not mean.
Thanks for your thought out reply. Unfortunately I'm at work so I can't comeback in as much detail as it deserves.
I concede a couple of aspects have given me food for thought but maintain the same opinion overall.
Your opinion on qualifying the successes of Ole compared to past managers I disagree with. While trophies aren't all equal, all of them are superior to nil. I also believe that winning trophies (any trophy) is a great stepping stone to them progressing and winning the bigger ones. Ole said this much himself in the run-up to the Europa League final, which we lost with a very poor showing against Villarreal.
Hindsight is 20/20 and while LVG and Jose were more experienced managers they weren't in their pomp when they joined us and both really winding down. When I talk about the type of manager we should be looking at, neither would figure in that vision.
As a final point, I think our squad would actually do fine under Klopp with maybe the exception of Pogba and a few other lesser names.
I agree wholeheartedly with your post. I think this season is the one where the proof of the pudding will be.
The argument has long been Ole needs time to get his philosophy bedded in and get the players who can make it happen, you can't say he hasn't been given that time now.
Ole came in the winter of the 18-19 season, this is now his fourth season, his third full one if you will.
Fergie joined in the winter of 86-87, had some turbulent years, but in his fourth season, or third full one, 89-90 he won his first trophy.
There's no logical argument for Ole not being expected to produce the goods, ie trophies, at this stage, especially after being backed so lavishly in the transfer window.
Which manager in Germany is winning all the trophies? I wasn't talking about Tuchel and the CL if that's what you think, I was eluding to this forum's fixation with the next up and coming 'super talented' coach from Germany. There's always a new one and we are always willing to give them the United job, which I'm sure you agree is a brilliant idea. Happy days.
Last CL winning managers: Tuchel, Flick
Last PL winning managers Pep, Klopp
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Didn’t you know? He’s supposed to win every game.. all the time.
best thing to happen to us since fergie. Stop moaning, back him until we are no longer in champions league.. no longer in title race.. out of cup competitions.
then talk
best thing to happen to us since fergie. Stop moaning, back him until we are no longer in champions league.. no longer in title race.. out of cup competitions.
then talk
You cannot seriously believe that Chelsea are as lenient as us with managers, surely?
We did that, last two years. Once it happens again people will say the same about the 2021/22 season. Never ending story, just support the manager no matter what.Didn’t you know? He’s supposed to win every game.. all the time.
best thing to happen to us since fergie. Stop moaning, back him until we are no longer in champions league.. no longer in title race.. out of cup competitions.
then talk
Didn’t you know? He’s supposed to win every game.. all the time.
best thing to happen to us since fergie. Stop moaning, back him until we are no longer in champions league.. no longer in title race.. out of cup competitions.
then talk
Been there done that no?
I take it you’re a “glass half empty” kind of person.
Being pessimistic and relying on “knee jerk” reactions after a loss is a strange way to be a football fan.
Me personally, I’m the “glass half full” type and hope to get it filled up eventually. Let’s keep the faith.
If 51% of the posters mutate into @Schmeichel's Cartwheel and blast Ole at every opportunity, then tragically, negativity has won, and I’ll have to drink my “half full” pint and drowned my sorrows.
yes but ole didn’t actually have a fair squad to compete with. This team now is highly competitive.. hence why I said.. we have to give him this season, then talk.
there are no more excuses but for building this squad he deserves to use it.
this is his desired squad now though.
I can't wait for us to batter West Ham so this place can start talking about football again instead of the constant cirklejerk manager bashing. Even the bloody pregame interview is being dissected as being some type of PE teacher muppet class by resident manager and football experts.
A select few of you probably get off on being reactionary and looking for validation to your complaining. Stop that.
A select few of you probably get off on being reactionary and looking for validation to your complaining. Stop that.
Plenty of "experts" across world football
We've wasted seasons backing our managers for longer. Moyes looked lost after 6 months, granted I get keeping him since he was the first manager after SAF. LVG was LONG overdue for being sacked. It was clear the board was firing him since they did it even after he won the FA Cup. They were done with him way earlier (I believe December that year was rock bottom?). Mourinho embarrassed himself moaning in the summer before he was fired and the club didn't back him. Should have removed him then.
Point is we keep our managers longer than we should and it's made entire seasons go to waste. Chelsea made the mistake of keeping Di matteo or whatever after he lucked into a UCL and have since learned from their mistake. As for media protecting their manager, so do we. We have ex--players moving goalposts every time anything happens for what Ole is responsible for. Finally Scholes seemed to talk about something realistic.
We've wasted seasons backing our managers for longer. Moyes looked lost after 6 months, granted I get keeping him since he was the first manager after SAF. LVG was LONG overdue for being sacked. It was clear the board was firing him since they did it even after he won the FA Cup. They were done with him way earlier (I believe December that year was rock bottom?). Mourinho embarrassed himself moaning in the summer before he was fired and the club didn't back him. Should have removed him then.
Point is we keep our managers longer than we should and it's made entire seasons go to waste. Chelsea made the mistake of keeping Di matteo or whatever after he lucked into a UCL and have since learned from their mistake. As for media protecting their manager, so do we. We have ex--players moving goalposts every time anything happens for what Ole is responsible for. Finally Scholes seemed to talk about something realistic.
Good job of choosing a singular point of many I made and using that as the complete benchmark for my opinion on what I expect from our manager.
Can't be bothered with the top-Red nonsense, chat that rubbish all you like. I was born the year Fergie took over, I grew up experiencing nothing but success for the club but standards alone guarantee you nothing. Swapping managers every season because we haven't won the league yet, ignoring every other aspect of what we need to address along the way is naive in my opinion, what is hard about that to understand? Just because it doesn't conform to your own opinion I'm labelled a top red.
The mere fact you think I (or any United fan) am genuinely happy with not winning the league every season is ridiculous really. Some of us temper our judgement with a heavy dose of reality that includes the obstacles in front of us and the lack of a guaranteed improvement waiting in the wings.
Aside from the fact I wouldn't raise the entire issue after a loss with 10 men and Jesse's moment of madness, the debate would perhaps be a tad more relevant once our new players have bed themselves in and we see how this CL group pans out, no?
Or I'm probably just being a top Red, eh
I don't get this logic. If the squad is now just good enough for Ole to have any responsibility as a manger, why did we sack our previous managers for having similar results with a worse squad?
Have you lived under a rock?
Because we gave them time and money to build that squad and they didn't meet up to expectation
Have we? When?
Maybe check player performance thread and not a thread on Ole
And Ole hasn't? Prior to this season he's spent record amounts and has literally nothing to show for it. It's clear there's some level of nepotism going into supporting Ole from both the fanbase and the club.