Cristiano Ronaldo

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Snake Plissken said:
amazed anyone would find it absurd to compare henry with ronaldo. I've heard many nominate henry as the greatest player to ply his trade in the premier league.
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Me too.

I'm usually biased with anything regarding United, but Henry was the best player I've seen in England, especially circa. 2002. He was unstoppable during that time, and it wasn't just the run-of-the-mill teams he performed against either. Henry regularly broke the hearts of United, Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea supporters and I genuinely feared him when we faced Arsenal; did rival fans say the same of Ronaldo?
 
Spoony Kobayashi said:
Again, I think Persie's injury record was overplayed. And we'd be paying through the roof for short term guaranteed success. Not our style. But anyway this debate is futile, you think he won't burn out and I am confident he'll burn out and won't be the same player when he hits 30.
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Yep, pretty much, the bastard himself will have to show us.
 
Cevno said:
Indeed. At least it is better than discussing the guilt/no guilt of Oscar pistorius without knowing any proper facts. :p
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I reckon we know more about the Pustorius case than we do about finance in football and specifically United.

Adebesi said:
True, there could always be exceptions.

My issue with this deal - more accurately, my expectation of SAF's issue with it - isn't about age per se. It's price, relative to age. With RVP it was a good ratio (tho with the injury record I admit I was concerned there as well.) At £55m, I'm not sure that would be the case for Ronaldo.
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Actually I dd this with the RVP signing, concerned myself with 'value', questioned wether we should be spending on a midfielder.

Since then though I've realised I don't know anything about United's finance. Football's about creating moments not economics, so if an all time great becomes available and the club want to spend the necessary I say go for it.

It's still nothing but wishful thinking though.
 
I sometimes wonder if we as football fans don't abuse money talk more than it's reasonable. I'd like to believe my club is ran well enough (and this certainly applies to United) not to go broke because of a couple of botched transfers.

Sure, these things factor into the long-term success of the clubs, but it still seems a bit of our reach to predict such thing in the long-term.

Taking Ronaldo's transfer for example, I remember quite a few using the 80m as a reason not to be totally unhappy watching him leave, predicting muppets-dream future transfers. Has that ever materialized? Not at all.

Sure, it's fun to talk about it, but it confuses me that some fans seem to be happy if a certain player joins them for 20m but would hate it if he came for 35m. Likewise, some of the fans of my club seem to gauge their level of joy/unhappiness with transfers based on such things. They will be ecstatic if James leaves for 50m, neutral if he leaves for 40m, disappointed if he leaves for 30m, and have a total meltdown if he leaves for 25m or less. All I know is that none of that money is coming to my pocket and I'll lose the pleasure of watching one of my favourite players playing at my club.
 
nahealai said:
Me too.

I'm usually biased with anything regarding United, but Henry was the best player I've seen in England, especially circa. 2002. He was unstoppable during that time, and it wasn't just the run-of-the-mill teams he performed against either. Henry regularly broke the hearts of United, Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea supporters and I genuinely feared him when we faced Arsenal; did rival fans say the same of Ronaldo?
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If we compare the time both Henry and Ronaldo spent in England, then yes, the comparison isnt absurd at all. But once we remove the "time spent in England" clause, it does start becoming a bad comparison.
 
Arruda said:
I sometimes wonder if we as football fans don't abuse money talk more than it's reasonable. I'd like to believe my club is ran well enough (and this certainly applies to United) not to go broke because of a couple of botched transfers.

Sure, these things factor into the long-term success of the clubs, but it still seems a bit of our reach to predict such thing in the long-term.

Taking Ronaldo's transfer for example, I remember quite a few using the 80m as a reason not to be totally unhappy watching him leave, predicting muppets-dream future transfers. Has that ever materialized? Not at all.

Sure, it's fun to talk about it, but it confuses me that some fans seem to be happy if a certain player joins them for 20m but would hate it if he came for 35m. Likewise, some of the fans of my club seem to gauge their level of joy/unhappiness with transfers based on such things. They will be ecstatic if James leaves for 50m, neutral if he leaves for 40m, disappointed if he leaves for 30m, and have a total meltdown if he leaves for 25m or less. All I know is that none of that money is coming to my pocket and I'll lose the pleasure of watching one of my favourite players playing at my club.
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Spot on, I dont understand all this 'I'd take him for £20M but not for £30M' business.
 
Arruda said:
I sometimes wonder if we as football fans don't abuse money talk more than it's reasonable. I'd like to believe my club is ran well enough (and this certainly applies to United) not to go broke because of a couple of botched transfers.

Sure, these things factor into the long-term success of the clubs, but it still seems a bit of our reach to predict such thing in the long-term.

Taking Ronaldo's transfer for example, I remember quite a few using the 80m as a reason not to be totally unhappy watching him leave, predicting muppets-dream future transfers. Has that ever materialized? Not at all.

Sure, it's fun to talk about it, but it confuses me that some fans seem to be happy if a certain player joins them for 20m but would hate it if he came for 35m. Likewise, some of the fans of my club seem to gauge their level of joy/unhappiness with transfers based on such things. They will be ecstatic if James leaves for 50m, neutral if he leaves for 40m, disappointed if he leaves for 30m, and have a total meltdown if he leaves for 25m or less. All I know is that none of that money is coming to my pocket and I'll lose the pleasure of watching one of my favourite players playing at my club.
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It's because we all play FM now
 
Tbf, the more money a club like Porto receives the more money it can spend on other players. Yes, it's not necessary that they will but receiving more money will make it more likely that next James Rodriguez they can buy again. But if they get underpaid for him and then not spend it well with the financial situation in Portugal football they can run out of money pretty quick.

Same with United, i guess. We don't have a unlimited budget so spending crazy amounts on 1 player makes no sense and everyone would like the club to be well run. Similarly, see Liverpool under Daglish for example when they spunked 20 million on Downing and 35 million on Carroll and 20 on Henderson. They are still recovering from that and trying to offload atleast 2 of these players and as a result their performances have suffered plus their fans get taunted for it from every direction in banter. :p

Chelsea bought Fernando Torres for 50 million and are almost having to play him because of that and again their performances are suffering.
 
If Ronaldo was available ofcourse he'd want to buy him back. I cannot believe anyone would doubt that. Ronaldos a twice in a lifetime type player....as for when he loses his pace....well there's two trains of thought ..

1) if he helped us win trophies, so what?
2) We would manage him better and I think that he will still be a top player without pace. He won't lose his ability to kick a ball.

But time will tell. He'll probably end up in USA
 
Cevno said:
Tbf, the more money a club like Porto receives the more money it can spend on other players. Yes, it's not necessary that they will but receiving more money will make it more likely that next James Rodriguez they can buy again. But if they get underpaid for him and then not spend it well with the financial situation in Portugal football they can run out of money pretty quick.

Same with United, i guess. We don't have a unlimited budget so spending crazy amounts on 1 player makes no sense and everyone would like the club to be well run. Similarly, see Liverpool under Daglish for example when they spunked 20 million on Downing and 35 million on Carroll and 20 on Henderson. They are still recovering from that and trying to offload atleast 2 of these players and as a result their performances have suffered plus their fans get taunted for it from every direction in banter. :p

Chelsea bought Fernando Torres for 50 million and are almost having to play him because of that and again their performances are suffering.
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Oh I understand it, it's just a personal thought.

It's one thing to mock Carrollesque/Torresque levels of stupidity, another to ascertain whether you'd want a player to come for your team according to his price. I just think it's more depth than what most of us are qualified for. I think I can reckon if a given player would be useful to my team, if I like his persona or playing style, etc. Whether he'd be good for 20m and bad for 30m is going a tad too far in my opinion.

Also, I saw a lot of people whose first instinct on our forum was to celebrate us breaking the transfer record for Portugal when Falcao was sold, instead of being sad for not watching that World Class player wearing our shirt again. I still think most of these fans were expressing their feelings of denial in that instance. Can't believe they were genuinely happy, like if we're not a football club but rather a money-printing machine. Unless a player is clearly out of the first-team rotation, I can't express happiness at any of them leaving.

The point is not that more money is better (if you're selling) but rather the over-analysis (of "value") that goes on every football forum these days made by people who don't have a clue about their clubs finances. Oh, I am to blame as well. I was just thinking about this now.
 
Arruda said:
I sometimes wonder if we as football fans don't abuse money talk more than it's reasonable. I'd like to believe my club is ran well enough (and this certainly applies to United) not to go broke because of a couple of botched transfers.

Sure, these things factor into the long-term success of the clubs, but it still seems a bit of our reach to predict such thing in the long-term.

Taking Ronaldo's transfer for example, I remember quite a few using the 80m as a reason not to be totally unhappy watching him leave, predicting muppets-dream future transfers. Has that ever materialized? Not at all.

Sure, it's fun to talk about it, but it confuses me that some fans seem to be happy if a certain player joins them for 20m but would hate it if he came for 35m. Likewise, some of the fans of my club seem to gauge their level of joy/unhappiness with transfers based on such things. They will be ecstatic if James leaves for 50m, neutral if he leaves for 40m, disappointed if he leaves for 30m, and have a total meltdown if he leaves for 25m or less. All I know is that none of that money is coming to my pocket and I'll lose the pleasure of watching one of my favourite players playing at my club.
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Excellent post. It's the result of the FM generation and it's all too common.
 
I happened to catch the last 7 or 8 minutes of a show title "Ronaldo: Tested to the Limit". The part I caught was him trying to control the ball while avoiding a set of lasers - my goodness the speed and control of the ball was mind boggling.
 
Cevno said:
Tbf, the more money a club like Porto receives the more money it can spend on other players. Yes, it's not necessary that they will but receiving more money will make it more likely that next James Rodriguez they can buy again. But if they get underpaid for him and then not spend it well with the financial situation in Portugal football they can run out of money pretty quick.

Same with United, i guess. We don't have a unlimited budget so spending crazy amounts on 1 player makes no sense and everyone would like the club to be well run. Similarly, see Liverpool under Daglish for example when they spunked 20 million on Downing and 35 million on Carroll and 20 on Henderson. They are still recovering from that and trying to offload atleast 2 of these players and as a result their performances have suffered plus their fans get taunted for it from every direction in banter. :p

Chelsea bought Fernando Torres for 50 million and are almost having to play him because of that and again their performances are suffering.
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agreed. Not sure what the big deal is anyway. A £55 million pound transfer is going to raise some discussion points.
 
Rado_N said:
Excellent post. It's the result of the FM generation and it's all too common.
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Which to be fair is bollocks. If anything the FM generation would be creaming their pants at the thought of us spending £100m on one player. What is being discussed here is whether it'd be likely that a club run like United would spend that amount on a 29 year old. Now, if they think it's fine, then brilliant. But it's not the way we operate. Besides if it becomes an auction I suspect there are a few clubs that could blow us out of the water, which is why getting him on a free is probably our only bet. That said, please let's sort out that midfield.

Oh and let's get Messi, Xavi and Falcao and all. Heh, it's not our money... Reality check folks. Maybe not.
 
Buy him 55m for even two years of good service is still a good return of investment. I'm 100% sure that (bar injury) he will guarantee 2 PL trophies during those years. With me being a bit concern we could have a long trophy barren years after Fergie leaves, adding two more PL titles is really worth those 55m.
 
Spoony Kobayashi said:
Which to be fair is bollocks. If anything the FM generation would be creaming their pants at the thought of us spending £100m on one player. What is being discussed here is whether it'd be likely that a club run like United would spend that amount on a 29 year old. Now, if they think it's fine, then brilliant. But it's not the way we operate. Besides if it becomes an auction I suspect there are a few clubs that could blow us out of the water, which is why getting him on a free is probably our only bet. That said, please let's sort out that midfield.

Oh and let's get Messi, Xavi and Falcao and all. Heh, it's not our money... Reality check folks. Maybe not.
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Using transfer fees as a barometer for how happy you are about a signing is very much a result of FM.
 
Rado_N said:
Using transfer fees as a barometer for how happy you are about a signing is very much a result of FM.
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Who is doing that then? I find this argument absurd when it's not the case. Anyway if we had sugar daddies no one would care. But this isn't City, PSG or champ manager, and we haven't got an endless pit of cash. And there are more pressing concerns.
 
:confused: Arruda was talking about it in the post I originally quoted!

It's also rife in the TF every summer!
 
a properly run club as Manchester United is, will determine if a fee is reasonable or not. Obviously it is not just the fee, it is wages and image rights and what not.

If we do get Ronaldo, i would not be concerned about how much we paid for him or what the contract is, he would be a big improvement to the team. but more importantly, the manager felt he would be an improvement to the team. In the end that is what counts.
 
Arruda said:
I sometimes wonder if we as football fans don't abuse money talk more than it's reasonable. I'd like to believe my club is ran well enough (and this certainly applies to United) not to go broke because of a couple of botched transfers.

Sure, these things factor into the long-term success of the clubs, but it still seems a bit of our reach to predict such thing in the long-term.

Taking Ronaldo's transfer for example, I remember quite a few using the 80m as a reason not to be totally unhappy watching him leave, predicting muppets-dream future transfers. Has that ever materialized? Not at all.

Sure, it's fun to talk about it, but it confuses me that some fans seem to be happy if a certain player joins them for 20m but would hate it if he came for 35m. Likewise, some of the fans of my club seem to gauge their level of joy/unhappiness with transfers based on such things. They will be ecstatic if James leaves for 50m, neutral if he leaves for 40m, disappointed if he leaves for 30m, and have a total meltdown if he leaves for 25m or less. All I know is that none of that money is coming to my pocket and I'll lose the pleasure of watching one of my favourite players playing at my club.
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Let's be even more facile in our discussions about football.
 
Moonwalker said:
Let's be even more facile in our discussions about football.
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Thanks for the opportunity to learn a new word! :)

I don't think we're facile at all. By "we" meaning our generation of football forum dwellers. Everything seems to be over analysed in fact.

That's just a minor rant though, don't make too much of it. More a thought of "does this have any purpose" (and I'm not obviously thinking about extreme transfers like Torres, Carroll or Ronaldo - or even Bebe) rather than something that boggles my mind too much.
 
Arruda said:
Thanks for the opportunity to learn a new word! :)

I don't think we're facile at all. By "we" meaning our generation of football forum dwellers. Everything seems to be over analysed in fact.

That's just a minor rant though, don't make too much of it. More a thought of "does this have any purpose" (and I'm not obviously thinking about extreme transfers like Torres, Carroll or Ronaldo - or even Bebe) rather than something that boggles my mind too much.
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We'll we're not but you're asking us to be, if you say 'forget the price'.

It's one thing to say that certain people are conceited when they talk about money and transfers, but quite another if you suggest that that shouldn't be a topic of discussion at all, that we should just concentrate on describing how much we miss some players on an emotional level.

That to me would be an even less inspiring debate, as well as a shorter one.

In fact it wouldn't be a discussion at all, more like reading through entries in a book of impressions.
 
You're stretching my point farther than what it was supposed to be. I never suggested it shouldn't be a topic of discussion at all.
 
Despite the few protestations to the contrary, if we actually resigned Ronaldo, there isn't a single United fan that wouldn't have a raging boner for weeks.

(Probably) not homo
 
Arruda said:
You're stretching my point farther than what it was supposed to be. I never suggested it shouldn't be a topic of discussion at all.
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Arruda said:
Sure, it's fun to talk about it, but it confuses me that some fans seem to be happy if a certain player joins them for 20m but would hate it if he came for 35m
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What you're saying basically is that price is irrelevant. Sure you can talk about it, but you don't really know anything about finances so why bother. Ultimately if you get a good player you should be happy, and if you lose a good player you should be unhappy, and all other analysis is superfluous.

Then you rather conveniently rule out any good example why this logic cannot be taken seriously by saying "All those good examples don't really count", because they are too extreme.

Now either price is relevant, or it is not. I submit that it is.
 
The fee would be a lot of money but it's not just about buying the player. It would cost the club a fortune and make the club a fortune. It won't happen but the fee's not a problem. If he was a 30 goal a season man, we wouldn't give a shit. Ronaldo signing for us, City, Chelsea would be one hand on the title providing he stays fit.

It's not about being a one man team. He's the difference in tight games that swing either way through out a season. It'd be good for the other players to see him return and it would be good for the image of the club. Personally I think he was wrong, from a professional point of view, joining at the time an inferior club in terms of what we were producing at home and in europe
 
The fee/wage total cost for any player always has to be a relevant consideration, even on a poster forum like this. That's why most of us agreed to take a pass on Sneijder. In our collective judgment, he just wasn't worth what it would have taken to bring him to OT.

Ronaldo would cost us the GDP is a small nation up front, but it's obvious he'd help us -- the club, that is, not literally "us -- recoup a massive amount of it back.

We do want to see the boys lift a CL trophy again, don't we?
 
Keltoi said:
:eek::wenger::rolleyes::lol:
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I have to agree with every one of your emoticons, Keltoi.

If there's any chance to bring in Ronaldo for a mere 55m, it just has to get done. Bale, terrific player he may be, is simple NOT in the class of Ronaldo.

And if we do bring in Ronaldo, why not let Cleverley and Ando do the job in central midfield? I'm not an Ando fan, but he's got some game and could, if he stays off the physio table for six months, really surprise us. Carrick is going nowhere. And Powell looks the real deal, even if he's still a bit young.
 
Anyone who thinks Ronaldo only has "A few good years" left is bonkers. That guy is the ultimate machine.
 
Ruud10 said:
I have to agree with every one of your emoticons, Keltoi.

If there's any chance to bring in Ronaldo for a mere 55m, it just has to get done. Bale, terrific player he may be, is simple NOT in the class of Ronaldo.

And if we do bring in Ronaldo, why not let Cleverley and Ando do the job in central midfield? I'm not an Ando fan, but he's got some game and could, if he stays off the physio table for six months, really surprise us. Carrick is going nowhere. And Powell looks the real deal, even if he's still a bit young.
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I do find it crazy how people are arguing against signing ronaldo, those were probably the same people who argued against signing RVP in the summer. All we heard was "hes too old, past his best, injury prone, only had one too much, wages too high, costs too much". We all know how that one turned out!
 
Arruda: I like you and enjoy reading your posts but post #3645 is bollocks and reeks of self-righteousness. It is aimed more at garnering cheap applause rather than contributing anything substantial to the thread and the current debate. I am quite disappointed that it came from you, a poster I hold in high regard. You have played to the lobby, who are more interested in making snide remarks with their asinine FM references (which I have never played in my life) than looking at the deal from financial perspective and if it, in their opinions, makes sense.

I am sure that no one will be bothered if the club actually went ahead and threw the transfer fee and the massive wages on Ronaldo. I gave the opinion as per my understanding of the club . We are in a situation where our midfield and possibly the defense will need reinforcements in the summer. Can we afford the luxury of spending a significant sum on just one player?

If we look at our midfield situation - Scholes will most probably retire in the summer, Fletcher serious illness has again come back to haunt him, Anderson is injury prone and Powell is in no way ready to play a significant part just as yet. That leaves us with only Carrick and Cleverley are our main midfielders with Jones available to play in special situations. We are would be really thin in the department and will need to buy someone.

The same might be true for central defense if Rio decides to retire and Vidic's knees and his inability to play consecutive games in a short period of time.

Now, if the club goes on to spend 100m on players this summer, then the muppet inside me would be delighted. Though, If I am being realistic, I know it won't happen. We are not a oil club that will go on a crazy spending spree, we are still quite laden with debt. Also, for the longest time we have worked on a wage budget, which is around 50% of our revenues. Having three players on over 200k/wk plus contracts for new players and some improved contracts, will surely breach that figure. Will the club make all those accommodations for Ronaldo? For a 28.5 year old player, who doesn't have very long left at the top of the game? It makes me wonder.

As for club finances and posters knowledge of them, all the financial reports are available on Mufplc.com. The club is listed on NYSE. All the transfer history and reports are a google click away. It's not that outrageous that people hazard a guess based on the information available to them. There is a large population who makes a living based on a businesses financial reports and history.

It baffles that people, who won't take a second to dismiss other clubs for buying success will not bat an eyelid if we spent 100m on players, even if it means that we move from our ethos and show financial imprudence.
 
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