Cristiano Ronaldo
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Ok, Ronaldo will not improve us. I can't take you serious.
I'm open to accepting the idea that Luiz Ronaldo was better than Cristiano Ronaldo but I don't think that invalidates my point that Cristiano Ronaldo is certainly worth £60 + 2 players. In a lesser team Cristiano Ronaldo may well be less effective but he'd still be more effective than virtually anyone else who has ever played the game and that's not something you can say for a lot of footballers.
Even this season when everyone would agree that Madrid aren't playing that well and the issues between Ronaldo and some of his teammates seem to have gotten even worse he's still scoring. Just look at the Madrid vs Atleti game, Ronaldo ran that game. Ronaldo is up there with the best players of his generation, he's one of the few players who you could drop in virtually any team and know he'll make them better. If there's the possibility of getting Ronaldo we should try.
How did you guys manage to move the goalposts so much? No one is saying Ronaldo isn't a great player or wouldn't improve us. I absolutely love the player and would want him back here if it were possible on the right terms.
On the right terms. Giving up DDG would not be the right terms for reasons I mentioned earlier. Top class goalkeepers are incredibly difficult to find, and engineering a move for a top goalkeeper is next to impossible other than in exceptional circumstances (VDS) and DDG has the potential to be a top class goalkeeper for us for a long time.
Also, as much as Ronaldo would improve us, the claim that he would suddenly elevate us to a level par with Barcelona is at best, laughable and worst completely delusional.
On the right terms. Giving up DDG would not be the right terms for reasons I mentioned earlier. Top class goalkeepers are incredibly difficult to find, and engineering a move for a top goalkeeper is next to impossible other than in exceptional circumstances (VDS) and DDG has the potential to be a top class goalkeeper for us for a long time.
Also, as much as Ronaldo would improve us, the claim that he would suddenly elevate us to a level par with Barcelona is at best, laughable and worst completely delusional.
Begovic, Krul, Mignolet, I'd be happy with any of these if it meant getting Ronaldo back.
You're crazy. None of those goalkeepers are particularly bad, but the fact is you quite simply do not compete for titles without a top class goalkeeper. No team has won the league in England without a very good goalkeeper since maybe... Blackburn? And I only say that because I have no idea who their goalkeeper was. He was probably really good too I imagine.
Those keepers are all good enough, you are really overrating De Gea and you'd be calling Fergie crazy as well as I am certain he'd make the deal if it meant bringing Ronaldo back.
You're crazy. None of those goalkeepers are particularly bad, but the fact is you quite simply do not compete for titles without a top class goalkeeper. No team has won the league in England without a very good goalkeeper since maybe... Blackburn? And I only say that because I have no idea who their goalkeeper was. He was probably really good too I imagine.
To be fair we could probably start with Paddy Kenny in goal while having a strike force of Ronaldo, Van Persie and Rooney :P
It's not meant as condescension, the argument is just that with Ronaldo you'll have a guaranteed world class, all time great, in your team. Turning that down to keep De Gea would be putting potential ahead of a sure thing.
You're crazy. None of those goalkeepers are particularly bad, but the fact is you quite simply do not compete for titles without a top class goalkeeper. No team has won the league in England without a very good goalkeeper since maybe... Blackburn? And I only say that because I have no idea who their goalkeeper was. He was probably really good too I imagine.
That's bullshit, it's just one position on the field. We didn't have a top class goalkeeper last season and nearly won the League, this season we don't have a top class goalkeeper and we're 7 points clear, we won several titles with the likes of Barthez, Bosnich and van der Gouw in goal. I'm not particularly convinced Victor Valdes is top class, and Barcelona have been the most successful club in the world by a country mile recently.
should i move this thread to the muppet transfer forum?
Please do marcos. The love affair with De Gea seems to have gone cold since there have been rumours abound about Ronaldo. We are such fickle fans, one minute he is world class, the next we want to get rid of him for Ronaldo.
Edit:
In any case, Cal has found a few more friends.
It's the excitement over a possible return Marcos. We will settle down eventually
Barthez was a very good goalkeeper who won the World Cup. So is Valdes, despite being perennially in the shadow of Casillas. And as for DDG, people tend to forget that he's got a large amount of experience for his age because of the issues he's having acclimatising to the Premier League. He's won the Europa League and the Super Cup with Atletico. He's a very good goalkeeper who is having issues with a move to a foreign league as most players do.
Probably would. I'm allowed to disagree with his decisions, but ultimately SAF is the manager and has the leeway to make those decisions as he sees fit. Doesn't mean I have to love it just because it's SAF.
I've never subscribed to the dogma that Fergie is always right but you don't think at the kind of sums we'd be talking about, that he probably knows what the best call would be?
For whatever reason, last season David De Gea was not top class and we came extremely close to winning the League and it's pretty clear a rotation between he and Lindegaard isn't top class this season, it's above average, and we're 7 points clear at the top of the table. With that in mind I don't know how you can say a top class goalkeeper is necessary to win top honours, unless you're saying it's De Gea's fault we lost last year, and that his inadequacies are going to feck us up this year.
I don't think people are saying De Gea isn't quality we can all see he makes saves that few keepers are capable of e.g. off the shoulder against City. There have been times such as at Everton on the opening night of the season where we'd have been humiliated had it not been for De Gea making save after save.
BUT.
Is De Gea a Big Pete? Is he an Edwin? Is he a Dino Zoff or a Peter Shilton or Gordon Banks? The answer right now is no. Whereas Ronaldo actually is up there with the best who have ever played the game. De Gea could be one of the best players to ever play for Man Utd, Ronaldo is one of the best players to ever play for Man Utd. The choice that's being presented is between a very, very good player and a truly great player. Its not that De Gea isn't top class its that Ronaldo is unbelievable.
How many players could conjure up a winning goal like this?
How could anyone turn down the services of a player who can do that?
Certainly. Although SAF has made some big money mistakes in the past. That being said though, it's not as cut and dry as it appears from the discussion we are having here. I can see why you and the others would say what you're saying so I would also understand if SAF were to go that way. It's a gamble which I wouldn't agree with, but a gamble that could likely work out.
But the thing is we didn't win the league last season. And no doubt DDG's issues with acclimatisation contributed to that. And similarly this season, we've conceded a ridiculous amount of goals despite being 7 points ahead, and I also think DDG's teething issues have also played a part in the defensive instability, and this has been exacerbated by SAF rotating the goalkeepers. Maybe SAF sticks with DDG from hereon and he becomes more and more stable as he improves his communication and irons out his weaknesses, which will then help us in the run in; but let's not count our eggs before they've hatched. It's only January after-all.
Spot on Brwned. Fat ron is still the best striker i have seen in my lifetime. Explosive and unstoppable until his injury, he did it in different leagues at a time when most of the leagues were much stronger than they are today. CR is a great player, but not a patch on Fat ron. for me it's not even close. Fat Ron is one of the greatest ever. CR is not and never will be, he is just not in that class of player for me.
De Gea is no great shakes right now. He has a long way to go right now. Any team would let him go to get someone as good as Ronaldo barring for non football reasons.
Err no he isn't. He is a great player, but not one of the greatest ever!!
Are you really putting him up there alongside the likes of Maradona, Pele, Ronaldo, Zidane and Cruyff? FFS people are still questioning whether Messi deserves to be put into that category, and he is vastly superior to CR in my view.
So let's not get carried away. He arguably could be considered one of utd's greatest ever players, but then again so is Giggs by many, yet Giggs would not even make my top 20! Opinions eh? Meh!
Yeah, if we'd had a better goalkeeper we'd have probably won the League, but if we'd had Ronaldo instead of Young we'd have probably won it, or VP instead of Welbeck, or if the referee hadn't given Newcastle a penalty at old Trafford, or Wigan their corner at the DW - there are a million equally significant reasons we didn't win the League last season and a lot of them have absolutely nothing to do with the bloke in goal. Again, it's just one position on the field.
Come on, but that is ridiculous to say that. Maradona, Best, Cruyff, Platini, Zidane, Luiz Ronaldo, Pele and Messi would have a great deal to say about that.
Its ridiculous to say Ronaldo is up there with those players? Why? He is one of the greatest of his generation and he will go down in the history books with the players you mention and others like Puskas, Di Stefano, Garrincha etc. He's scored 169 times in 170 games at Madrid! The records he's broken there already...Ronaldo will be regarded as a great of the game by people in 10, 20 years time. When people talk about football in the early 21st century his name will be right there next to Messi's, Zidane and Luiz Ronaldo. That's a calibre of player that doesn't show up everyday and that's why pushing the boat out to get him seems entirely sensible if its possible.
Of course you would. He cost £80m when he was 24 and as good as he is now.
No you wouldn't. What he did for us was quality. What he has done for Madrid? the only reason it's that low is because he's gonna have two years to run on his contract. If he signed today - Madrid would not sell for 100 million.....
and they certainly wouldn't be on their own.
To be fair i look at it this way. If CR was as good as those players, then why don't we have the media and pundits etc, clamoring for him to be regarded in that esteemed company? Similar intention has certainly been there for a long time regarding Messi, and tbf it is difficult to argue against Messi's claim.
CR is still a great player, but for me the very best have something extra, and it is usually in the head, the way they think and see the game and then have the ability to use their instincts to transfer their vision of the game on to the pitch.
CR is a physical beast, whose best attributes all equate to his power and pace and his shooting ability. But i just don't see the same effortless and instinctive genius in his play that is evident in all those other true greats.
I still cant believe people are debating whether we should take this if its on the table...
Nah, he's up there (not with Pele/Maradona), but he's the best of this generation not named HWMNBNITT. To just sum him up as a physical beast is ignorant.
Err no he isn't. He is a great player, but not one of the greatest ever!!
Are you really putting him up there alongside the likes of Maradona, Pele, Ronaldo, Zidane and Cruyff? FFS people are still questioning whether Messi deserves to be put into that category, and he is vastly superior to CR in my view.
So let's not get carried away. He arguably could be considered one of utd's greatest ever players, but then again so is Giggs by many, yet Giggs would not even make my top 20! Opinions eh? Meh!
No one is debating whether Messi is up there, those who do so are dismissed as fanbois nowadays. The debate now is whether he's the best of all time.
As an individual player Ronaldo has left many of his contemporaries in the distance.
Maybe, but in my mind there is as much chance that he will be remembered as the player who wanted to be the best in the world, but was ultimately eclipsed and left trailing in the wake of the genius that is Messi. CR could be an unwitting victim to the long running media comparisons of the 2, which CR has inevitably and irrefutably lost. That is the point really, Messi is so clearly superior to CR, how could CR's name be reasonably placed alongside his? I suggest it will be correctly placed with the Bergkamps, Platini's, Romario's etc, just below the very top tier of greatness.
If there was any chance of resigning CR, it would certainly get my vote. Messi is out there on his own imo, but CR is certainly as good as anyone else available.
It's harsh to set Platini alongside Bergkamp there, but it's right to highlight the second or third tier of greats which Ronaldo is joining but certainly hasn't surpassed as is sometimes expressed in this forum.
No one on this forum has put Ronaldo with Pele and Maradona, or other top tier greats. Cal? doesn't count.
He doesn't look out of place with those who place just below though.
He doesn't look out of place with those who place just below though.
I didn't sum him up as anything. I called him a physical beast because he is. I claimed his best attributes equate to his power and pace and his shooting ability.
So you are really labelling me ignorant for dismissing him as only a physical beast, when i did no such thing. There is a marked difference between highlighting someones best attributes, and dismissing them derogatorily as nothing more than that.
I suggest you respond to what i actually said, rather than your own poorly interpreted connotation of it.
The widely accepted few are the usual suspects, Maradona, Pele, Cruyff, Luis Ronaldo, Best, Beckenbauer, Messi etc. Platini is not often mentioned in those lists which is why i placed him in the less contentious second tier.
I am not saying he shouldn't be, he is still regarded by many as France's greatest ever player. but i tried to be general. there is enough cause for debate in this thread without compounding it further!!
Indeed. Suspect no one outside of England would be of the same opinion.
I don't know, with Ronaldo, one hears subliminal digs at his football intelligence with moronic stuff like "he is where he is because of exceptional hard work" or "once he loses pace he will fall off". So I may have read something that wasn't there apotheosis.
"Effortless and instinctive genius". Such a vague criteria.
"Effortless and instinctive genius". Such a vague criteria.
Serie A fans would have a heart attack reading that I reckon.
You're crazy. None of those goalkeepers are particularly bad, but the fact is you quite simply do not compete for titles without a top class goalkeeper. No team has won the league in England without a very good goalkeeper since maybe... Blackburn? And I only say that because I have no idea who their goalkeeper was. He was probably really good too I imagine.
Tim flowers. and yes he was good. Reliable and consistent. Thinking back he compares well with Friedel.
You may be doing Begovic a disservice though Andrew. He looks a real top keeper to me, and if you watch stoke's games, he is contributing heavily to their excellent defensive record this season.
Fair enough, hard to define i agree. but as i say for me the difference is often in the mind with the true greats.
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