Not Indian music. Don't listen to Indian music.
With due respect, you're simply too big a fan of Ronaldo's to discuss this with.Regarding rest of that para, you need to start watching Ronaldo play
Cristiano Ronaldo
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Ummmm, Just like you are of Messi? Fair enough then. I think same.
I'm not a fan of either. I just rate them very differently.
It's funny, I've been accused of being a Ronaldo fan and anti messi before
I'd personally rate Messi above Ronaldo for similar reasons to the ones you've outlined there. Despite the fact he's having a difficult 12 months or so. I suspect they're both the first and second greatest of all time, though, for the reasons I've argued above. The standard of football has improved over time and the very best players playing in an era when the very best football is being played are highly likely to be the best players ever to play the game. Particularly when you have to players so incredibly far ahead of all their peers.
Fair enough. But you must have seen maradona. So you really think Ronaldo is better than Maradona? I'm interested in that. The things that guy could do with the ball are insane. And his scoring stats didn't get boosted by playing in serie a. He seemed, like messi, to be both a creator/playmaker and a goalscorer albeit more a playmaker and less a goalscorer than messi (from what one hears and reads).
I did and he was brilliant. But it was fecking ages ago, so I'm not sure how much my memory has been distorted by a constant diet of highlight reels ever since and I certainly never watched him play anything like as many games of football as I've watched Messi and Ronaldo. All of which is, I imagine, true for a lot of people saying he's a much better player than the two current La Liga stars.
I was born in Scotland, spent a few years there as a kid during the 60's and 70's and learned to play on the streets.
Are you aware of what started in Scotland 5 or so years ago with respect to coaching and playing for kids?
The good kids today aren't just getting a couple of hours a week on astroturf, they are putting in a lot of hours of play. To become a pro today requires a huge commitment form the kids and parents.
Reading this, it's almost like you're accusing him of being a Darren Bent esque player who just pokes a goal in from 3 yards out every other week.
He's smashing all goal records for Madrid, arguably the biggest club ever, and has a record over 4 or 5 seasons now of around a goal a game!
Who's had a record like that outside of Messi?
It's ferociously bad luck to play opposite Messi, as he has to share top billing. Without him around he'd be the standout by miles.
It was embarrassing a couple of years ago when a lot of knee jerks on here were trying to compare Van Persie to him. Maybe if he'd doubled his tally and done that for 4-5years!
But using that logic doesn't that mean the best defenders in today's game e.g. Kompany/Thiago Silva/Ramos are among the best defenders of all time?
Nope. But when if people want to insist he's in some discussion with the likes of messi and maradona chucked in, then the standards of general play and creativity are ridiculously high and makes him look like a goalscorer to a large extent.
That's a fair counter. I wonder if people would say today's are better than beckenbaur and Maldini.
Not far off though is he? Obviously a considerably better player, but has essentially taken up Benzema's role in the side and is a better player off the ball than he is on it. Against the lesser teams (which there are many of in La Liga) he will express himself a bit more (like last weekend), but he has geared his game to being a goalscorer. World of difference between the Ronaldo from 2006/07 to Ronaldo now.
Not season by season, no. But the best defenders of the modern era, definitely.
What would you guys say are Ronaldo's very best performances against top quality teams?
Barcelona in the semi final of the Copa Del Ray 2nd leg 12/13, AC Milan at home in the group stage 10/11, Juventus at home and away 13/14, City away 12/13, Atletico away 11/12, Atletico at home 12/13 (countless game vs Atletico tbh), Barcelona at home 10/11, Barcelona Copa Del Ray final 10/11, Barcelona Spanish Super Copa second leg at home 12/13, Barcelona away 11/12, Barcelona away 12/13, Barcelona away in the second leg of the Copa Del Ray 11/12, Bayern at home 11/12 and provided an assist in the first leg away in what was a quiet game from him and a poor performance from Madrid, Bayern away 13/14 and in the home game provided a great pass to Coentrao to set up Benzema after he returned from injury and was still playing injured, first half vs United at home in 12/13 before they put Phil Jones on him and had him double and sometimes triple marked, Dortmund at home in the CL quarter finals 13/14, Atletico away in the second leg of the Copa Del Ray semi final 13/14, Tottenham at home in the CL quarter finals 10/11 (a Gareth Bale inspired side that seen them top a group with Inter and knocked AC Milan out in the last 16 by beating them away). They are all games that he performed well in (maybe I missed a few) with perhaps the second leg of the Copa Del Ray 12/13 away to Barca in 12/13 being the best. He holds the record for most consecutive Clasico's scored in also.
There are other games that he has not performed so well in that he still managed to score a goal or grab an assist in and that is part of what makes him so great and is a big reason why he is the second best player of his generation and the best player in the world right now continuing on from last year. I am sure United fans can tell me some more from his time there and I remember his performances vs Chelsea in the CL final, Arsenal away in the CL semi final 08/09, Inter at home 08/09, Chelsea at home 08/09, Roma away 07/08, Porto away 08/09, Liverpool at home 07/08 were good games from him that I remember watching.
Arsenal away in 08/09 he was on top of the fecking world.
Yes, oh yes
I personally think Barcelona and Spain's sharp decline over the last couple of years suggests that Xavi was the key to two of the greatest teams in recent history and because of that he should surely be considered on a similar level (if not quite at the same level).
Xavi's decline has coincided with the decline of Pedro, Iniesta, Pique, Busquets, Casillas and Torres on top of an injury prone Puyol and ageing David Villa. For Barcelona it's the same, but Valdes is gone, Alves is on a sharp decline and Puyol's retired. As good as Xavi is/was, he wasn't THAT good that he made all of them better players.
You could see it in the second half of 11/12 for Barcelona and for Spain at Euro 2012. Both were still excellent teams and the best but they were not as good or quite as dominant as they were in previous seasons or tournaments. Xavi's decline began in the second half of 11/12. Even though Iniesta put in his best performances for Spain at Euro 2012 they were still not as good as in previous tournaments. He provided a platform for his team that allowed them to reach a level higher than any other, which no other midfielder could provide in recent history. He is one of the very best central midfielders ever.
No, see, I'm not talking about good games or ones where he got a goal or an assist. I mean games where a player destroys a team Like Ronaldhinio did when he got that standing ovation at the bernabeau or Iniesta against us. Just brilliant overall performances against great opposition.
That's what happens when one of the three most important cogs starts declining. It's not to do with just Xavi. For a good while when Messi's numbers were getting more and more absurd people started calling them a one man team. If he had declined and Xavi stayed the same, they'd still have dropped off big time. These are three special players and losing what any one does to an extent will create problems, especially when it's aided with others like Pedro and Alves going to pieces.
Agree with the last line though. Xavi was an incredible player.
I don't agree. When Xavi declined they did drop off big time and that was seen by their performances in the big games in 12/13 (despite Messi and Iniesta putting in strong seasons), losing three times to Madrid, Celtic, AC Milan and the hammerings they received vs Bayern. Spain were as close to invincible as Barcelona were and they didn't have Messi or even a forward or striker at Euro 2012. Barcelona missed Iniesta for the majority of 10/11 and they were still very good. They can no longer play their possession game as effectively or as dangerously as a result of Xavi's fall from grace and that is why they have become more direct since 12/13 and as a result less invincible and successful and have started to look like a mortal team . This possession allowed them to attack in the manner they did as well as prevented the opposition from attacking. No other player can offer that. Argenitina while not having as good a team as Spain have had some good to great players over the years, especially in attack and they were nowhere near so invincible with Messi. Despite being the best player Messi was not what made Spain and Barcelona invincible and neither was Iniesta.
It is if the success of the side lives and dies by another players decline. It's no coincidence that two of the greatest ships of all time crashed and burned at the exact same time. If Barcelona continued, unabashed, without Xavi then this key player business would hold all the weight in the world, but they didn't. They got humiliated, in much the same way as Xavi's NT did to bring their time as the pinnacle of the game to an end.
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Neither was xavi. It ws a combination as it always tends to be.
The second bolded bit makes no sense. Why should they continue unabashed when one of their three key men starts fading and their manager who transformed them leaves, followed by a loss of form by many players and some Averge managers? It's really convenient to put it all down to xavi but he wasn't that good, as good as he was.
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Barcelona away in the 2nd leg of the Copa Del Ray 12/13 was a performance you should watch.
It is true that it was a combination of the three but Xavi was the one who gave them their unique style, not Messi or Iniesta. Spain could win without a forward or striker as shown at Euro 2012.
It is not convenient as Spain's fall came at the same time.
Xavi didn't give them their style. A combination of managers tactics and thee right players gave them their style. Messi is a more unique player than xavi anyway. I do think xavi was brilliant but I think you're overating him a bit. Without messi they'd lack the magic. Without Xavi they might have been a bit more direct. Barcelona werent doomed without either but they wouldn't have been as special without either as well.
Spain played very much the same way and kept possession in the same manner despite having had two different managers to Guardiola.
Spain and Barcelona's dominance was mostly built on the possession they had and Xavi was what gave them that. They still can keep possession when they want and can dominate teams in that regard still (hence why even Bayern played in the counter in 12/13 who were the 2nd best possession team that year), but they do not do it as well anymore or as effectively.
Spain lacked Messi and a forward or striker of any kind at Euro 2012 and it did not stop them. Spain were just as successful and dominant as Barcelona and they never had Messi. Just because Messi was their best player does not mean he was their most important, the same way Ronaldo was not Madrid's most important last year in the CL (despite being very important).
That's one run of in knockout games, though. I'd argue Ronaldo has been their most important player in his time there.
Either way I'm not discussing who is more important. That's very subject and most likely none of us know the answer to these things anyway given the number of things that come together to make for all time great teams. But I just disagree with putting it all down to one player. When barca were at their peak, everyone was at sync, everyone was perfectly attuned to the system. It wasn't 10 misfits and xavi turning them into barca players.
maybe, buy without messi they wouldnt be regarded as one of the best teams ever
and without messi, spain won the world cup scoring what? 7 goals?
Spain are still regarded as one of the best teams ever without Messi. But I see your point. Messi provided the killer blow and the difference in the final third that no other player could provide. At club level, especially over the course of a league campaign something different is needed and Messi gave them that.
Whether Xavi was the most important is neither here nor there, really. At the end of the day he was an undeniably crucial part of two of the greatest teams in history and yet he's considered lightyears behind Ronaldo. I'm not sure that's fair at all.
I agree with that. But then again, people are obsessed with goal tallies.
I don't think I've ever seen a sentence I've ever disagreed with more.
what is your favourite year in music?
I couldn't tell you, I like stuff from the 90's because I was born then. I like stuff from the 80's, 70's, 60's and 50's too. Modern music is horrible though, so it's certainly not 2014, not by a long shot. Has there actually been a great album released this year? Doubt it. (subjective obviously)
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